Casa Grande Arizona city parks no detecting

[rjsupersonic]

I was at a Casa Grande, AZ park today and was booted out the the police. I always check the rules board on the way in and check online for any Metal Detecting ordinances and found nothing as far as detecting goes. I was there about an hour and this time only using a flathead screwdriver to pop out coins. The officer told me that i could not detect in Casa Grande Parks. I asked him for the ordinance and he said there was not a specific law but" digging is damaging property". I told him that he could check the area I was in. I left "No Trace" and there is no damage to property. He said I could get a permit from the parks department..........Ok I went to the parks office and they never heard of a permit for detecting and said as long as you don't dig large holes its public property....anyway 30 years of detecting and this is a first for me I guess the Ric Savage type programs are making things worse for us...sad state of affairs. I was also a police officer for 30 years and unless some kind of citizen complaint was received officers would not waste time on someone swinging a detector at least where I worked. I did email the mayor of Casa Grande and offered some suggestions such as a free permit that lists the rules for detecting etc. The good news is that my wife and I travel in our RV full time and we are heading out of Casa Grande soon. Just wanted to give people a heads up on Casa Grande.

 

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[RECON]

Thanks rjs,
Hoping all municipal parks are that way as I'm going to soon retire to AZ and will possibly try a park or two to fine tune my new unit for shallow coins.

 

[Tom_in_CA]

rjsupersonic, you were right that there need not be a specific rule saying "no detecting". And that thus your pre-checking, and just going (by virtue of silence on the subject) was ok to do. Heck your 30 yrs. of detecting with this being a first for that, is also a testament to that. HOWEVER, the fact of this current occurance is as follows:

Legally, sure, a "duly appointed official" (cop or city person or whatever) can indeed morph something ELSE to fit a paricular situation as-it-arises-in-the-field, as he sees fit. And you would be hard-pressed to try to argue against him on the spot. It would boil down to a debate of semantics, or whether something mircroscopic constituted "disturbance" or "alteration" or whatever. I too once got miffed at a similar "arbitrary and whimsical" booting like that. I too thought there has to be something specific saying such a thing. Because in my mind, what then is to stop a cop from saying something stupid like "you can't where blue tennis shoes because I think it disturbs earthworms" ? I mean, it certainly sounds like a cop or gardener could make things up, no matter how remote or dis-provable.

So I talked to a lawyer friend of mine, who explained that duly-appointed officials like that have latitude to interpret and enforce, in the field, as they see fit. And the reason is simple: Otherwise everyone would be endlessly arguing with cops, interfering with justice, twisting things, etc... For example: If you show up in the park wearing a single sock, and argue with the cop that you weren't breaking the public nudity clause, since ... *technically* ... you were "wearing one sock". Or if you walk your dog where no dogs are allowed, try to argue that since your dog has only 3 legs, therefore it's technically not 100% of a dog, and other such silly things. Obviously laws can't be made to address 100% of things that can come up in the field. So there are vague "catch-all" violations like "public annoyances" and so forth, that can be applied a a cop's discretion. And usually his superiors will side on his side (if you were to object, demand a ticket, etc...) Is it arbitrary, capricious, and whimsical? SURE! But society would devolve into chaos if officials didn't have some power to "do their job".

Does this mean that since someone MIGHT morph something silly to apply to us, that we therefore should "go ask permission" ahead of time? NO! Because that too is folly, that can bring forth the "no one cared till you asked" psychology. Thus, I hate to say it, but sometimes you just gotta develope a tough skin, and go at low traffic times, and avoid such lookie-lous, to begin with. I mean, let's face it: we're in a hobby that draws looks from curious folks, and has connotations. No amount of grovelling is going to get someone to allow you to "alter and deface the park" (If that's how you/I define our hobby). And no amount of permission would have defused that. I mean, all the cop would had to have done is to get on his radio or cell-phone, call down to city hall, and say "... but he's tearing the place up" (even though that's not true). So .... sometimes you just gotta give lip service, roll with a few of those punches, and avoid such persons.

 

[rjsupersonic]

Yup Tom, you are right sometimes you gotta roll with the punches and it is always better to detect early in the morning when there less people around, I won't let it bother me I enjoy the hobby too much. The good thing is that I don't live in Casa Grande and the RV is mobile think I may go prospect for gold for awhile