Treasure Trove on public land

[Red James Cash]

Ah yes gfordtx, but we already know who you are, and will turn you in to the IRS for tax evasion. Tsk Tsk. You can't hide now. We know you're a prison gaurd in Texas, and it wouldn't be hard for us to subpoena records from T'net to get your name and, and trace you back to your address and computer. Your goose is cooked when the IRS learns you put the $ in a swiss bank account to avoid taxes. Also when the IRS finds out you incorrectly listed their FACE value ($20 each) rather than their REAL value $1.5k to $2k minimum each)......... oh my goodness. They're going to be saving a bed space for you in the prison you used to work at. Oh me oh my

And if the I.R.S. doesnt get you the NSA will

 

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[Real de Tayopa Tropical Tramp]

Allo Tom. o need for all of that trouble, the Swiss banks routinely turn over all of the data of American citizen accounts, to the IRS. This was forced a few a few years ago by the IRS. I have an itty bitty one and was so notified by the Bank.

Don Jose de La Mancha

 

[Toxophilite]

I know this thread has been dormant but I was curious about this type of thing as well. If you go and sell a gold coin (speaking of which, I don't even know where you would do that? Can you sell gold coins on ebay?) they don't really have a right to ask you where you got it do they? I mean if not then no big deal. But if the government got involved, and you really found it on public land, I'm assuming you can just say you found it on your property? Would they be able to tax you for income if the coin was found on your property? Or could you just say you bought it privately a number of years ago? I don't know what the best course of action would be.

I wish I actually was in this dilemma haha!

Sell it for cash and report nothing. If someone ask where you got it tell them its none of there business. BTW if you get some gold you want to sell holler at me.

 

[Rawhide]

Following the laws of your state is the best way to keep the hobby healthy. The down side to finding treasure now a days is the govts stand. After taxes if your allowed to keep any at all is not a motivation for me to dig. It can set there and rot. EBay has to report certain earnings. Your better off working with the bank of Hong Kong as the us is making anything more than coin hunting in the city park illegal. If you melt a coin or relic you loose value. Coin and jewelry are worth more than melt value. You also need to understand there are many counterfeits on eBay and a grasp of the difference of 10k gold compared to 24k. Do things legal always and if you have found a better way let me know. I am collecting lost rings in the park and not sure when to sell.

 

[73dguard]

dang, I think I'll go out and buy or find a whole bunch of lead just so I can do this

 

[augoldminer]

Raw gold is not taxable till its turned into paper money. a $20 dollar gold piece is taxable at $20. until you sell it and then the tax is based on selling value.

This is from a court case where the judge ruled on 60 gold coins that a man found in the wall of a home that the mans great grand father had built.

 

[mope540]

tell the dog and nobody else

 

[Danwell]

Not sure that's a good idea either, just ask the Bush's Baked Beans guy..

 

[ZosoRocks]

The government always wants their share. I'm not an eBay user but it seems like if you sell a gold coin on eBay, there is a record of it that the government could use when they audit your taxes. Seems like the best way to sell would be if you could find a buyer who pays cash.

I'm an eBayer of pop culture - buying and selling all sorts of things.....and since eBay is a paid service, as far as I know, income from that site is non-taxable, because you paid someone to help you recover some of the value for the item.

If I am incorrect, as eBay "Store Owners" may be classified differently, know this much, I do not own a store and am just a infrequent buyer and seller, but please respond and correct me, as I would hate to find that I am doing something incorrect.

I guess one could also make the claim that normally people will not claim garage sale income as "income" or on their taxes.

Cheers to all.

 

[augoldminer]

If you find a Treasure Trove on public land your least problem may be the IRS.

There may be people that try to claim your Treasure Trove in court.

 

[heathgeo]

Yeah.. I think turning the find into cash would be the hardest part without the state/ govts greedy lil hands getting into it....
My boss inherited some land a few years ago that had an old house on it..
They found a safe in it with $65k cash in it..
Why can't I get that lucky.. why!!! Haha

 

[ForbiddenEvidence]

I would not tell a single "authority", as I am the only athority involved. I found it. It belongs to me. Not pay taxes. Not telling. This is why so many hide treasure....greedy greedy local/state governements lookin to steal something that is 100% yours.

History suffers greatly from others finding ways to take what is not theirs, and they did not find.

Like Oak Island...if they find treasure...10% goes to local athorities. What a crock of dog ****. Id never tell a soul and smuggle it out for that very reason. 100% MINE. Id love to donate to charity and boust the history, but will resist due to greedy authorities thinking they can steal what I found in the earth.

 

[au-artifax]

Would/should there be a difference if something could be considered an "artifact" vs. a treasure trove? I know here in Ct. it is illegal to even disturb an "artifact" of considerable historical value, even if found on your own property. Yes, Connecticut is one of the most greedy states in the union. So, playing on the resale aspect of things, if you found something that obviously was not local legal tender, what can you do. Can you sell your authentic 300 year old gold coin from a foriegn country on EBAY (or anywhere else for that matter) and not gain the attention of authorities. What about a piece of precious metal with historical markings or some kind of serial number? So you say you find a Spanish silver coin in a local park. The court is not gonna give you the benefit of the doubt and the will SAY your explanation is not credible and relieve you of your find. Like I said, at least here in Ct where it will have been determined to have historical significance, and you will be charged with a crime for having moved it away from it's resting place. And to further complicate things, there are the new rules from DHS that governs places like pawn shops and refineries that mandate payment be done with a paper check and records kept of each and every transaction. You need to have a pretty solid middleman to clean up your treasure and middle men cost money.... lots of money!!!

 

[Tom_in_CA]

Au-artifax, I think you are WAY too "over-thinking" this. Pray-tell, where are you getting that you can't even disturb an artifact on your OWN property in CT ? If you can link to any sort of law that says that, I would love to see it.

Trust me: there are people detecting in CT on private and public land, and ... gasp, finding old stuff. And no, they're not "going to court", blah blah. "Artifact" is usually defined as something 50 or 100 yrs or older. And I gaurantee you, there are md'rs finding stuff older than that all-the-time in CT. So please show us the citation for the dire things you are alluding to.

 

[au-artifax]

Au-artifax, I think you are WAY too "over-thinking" this. Pray-tell, where are you getting that you can't even disturb an artifact on your OWN property in CT ? If you can link to any sort of law that says that, I would love to see it.

Trust me: there are people detecting in CT on private and public land, and ... gasp, finding old stuff. And no, they're not "going to court", blah blah. "Artifact" is usually defined as something 50 or 100 yrs or older. And I gaurantee you, there are md'rs finding stuff older than that all-the-time in CT. So please show us the citation for the dire things you are alluding to.

I would be glad to, however I never do someone else's homework for them. Kindly look up Connecticut's Historic Preservation plan and it's associated legislation that was adopted back in 2011 and can be found by searching for our Historic Preservation Plan 2011-2016. If you bother to read the laws of our state instead of just giving off a primordial "huff" you might learn something. In my state if you knowingly disturb something of historical value, EVEN ON YOUR OWN PROPERTY you will go to jail. There are procedures for what to do and points of contact given.

No that doesn't mean you can't treasure hunt or go metal detecting. And an old coin, however COOL and interesting a find is not really of historical value to the state. Indian relics on the other hand are, as would be an artifact say from a pirate ship or sunken treasure ship etc etc....

Do you really think that if you find some long lost addendum to the Declaration Of Independence in your back yard... that it is yours?! Heck no!!!!! It is ours.... every American's. Same with things that have to do with major historical events.

BTW.... It was never my intention to tell people what they should do, but merely to use this reality in their decision making process.

BTW #2, using the statement "over thinking" is usually made by those who "under think".

BTW #3 Most people from one state would ask people from another state what their laws were, not try to say " taint so.... Nuh uh... caint be y'all".

 

[Jason in Enid]

There is absolutely nothing I saw in that "historic preservation plan" that addresses LAWs. Even searching for laws associated with it turned up nothing. Perusing the state office website had nothing about legalities, so like Tom said... If there is indeed some specific language of law, post a link to it.


As for finding a lost part of the declaration in my back yard, you're damn right I own it! And I'll be heavily compensated for it in exchange for letting a museum own it.

 

[Tom_in_CA]

au-artifax, You say:

"No that doesn't mean you can't treasure hunt or go metal detecting. And an old coin, however COOL and interesting a find is not really of historical value to the state. Indian relics on the other hand are, as would be an artifact say from a pirate ship or sunken treasure ship etc etc.... "

Then hold on a second, ISN'T THAT WHAT WE'RE TALKING ABOUT, is metal detecting? Doh ! And now you're saying that those CT people CAN md "their own property" (and parks, schools, beaches, etc...?) And who cares about indian stuff ? Not sure about CT, but here in CA, those are non-metal items, hence out-side the scope of this discussion. And the "declaration of independence" ? How are we going from metal detecting, to THAT ?

And do you mean this link ?

http://www.ct.gov/cct/lib/cct/state_historic_preservation_plan_ic.pdf

I have gone through this 70 pages, and don't see anything there that prohibits metal detecting (as you yourself seem to be now saying) on your own land or elsewhere. Perhaps if someone had their home listed on the "national register of historic places" (which, no, isn't "all old houses in CT"), then sure, maybe there's some prohibitions on teardowns, etc.... But seriously, can you cite ANY example of someone who "couldn't detect on their own property and went to jail for that ?" I bet not.

 

[au-artifax]

I guess you missed the title of the thread. It was not about metal detecting. It was about treasure troves on public land. I can see how you thought that, seeing how that is all you do. Also, note the nature of the beast here on TN, where most knowledge passed on is preambled by "I knew a guy who's sister's brother's cousin said they new a guy' s grand dad once heard in a bar that blah blah".... well you get the point. Anyhow, the best citation I can make, to address my statements, (and the original subject matter of this thread), is to remember "Sue". Don't know " Sue"? Read on.

A few lessons that were learned can be applied in many states including Connecticut. For example there are lands that are privately owned that are also part of trusts, one example being some of the Joshua's Tract land trusts here. Such trusts are not required to be spelled out on deed documents and can bight an owner in the ass. Seems like at least once every year a new land trust surfaces and a new casino plan working. Trusts can exist prior to individual land ownership in ANY state.

Another lesson is that an owner of land can get in trouble if they were to admit the sale of some significant antiquity, so you may find the owner of the land who agreed to let you detect say that he didn't give you permission and he sues you for what you found. Just like with " Sue". Don't know who She is? She's from South Dakota. You might know what you know, but you have no clue what you don't know. On a personal note, you don't have to be an expert on everything to get respect Tom, so learn when to talk and when to listen. There's a saying, "God gave us twice as many ears as he did mouths, so we should listen twice as much as we talk". Try it.

 

[Jason in Enid]

I know all about sue. Sue was on private land and the finders got screwed by a greedy landowner after he cashed their check!

 

[au-artifax]

I know all about sue. Sue was on private land and the finders got screwed by a greedy landowner after he cashed their check!

Based on what you have just said, you do not know "all" about Sue. The owner HAD to back pedal because if he did not he would be admitting guilt. The crime would have been to sell antiquities from land that was his but also had a "trust" placed on it by the US government, and some say it was on Souix land also. The land being part of a trust meant that the (owner) had to get prior permission before selling Sue. It was greed later in the saga, but saving his ars was his first thought.

And in the end the only thing that allowed him to sell it was same thing that kept it away from it's finders: that the remains were so mineralized that courts determined the remains were "land"... as in " real estate" and this gave the rancher the avenue to request permission to sell the land once known as Sue. It also made the original sale null and void, as the rancher did not have the required permission to sell the realestate in question (Sue). The government would not have given permission had it not been for that finding. It was complicated enough to take eight years of legal action to figure out, and people lost their livelihoods, money, freedom, and much more over the questions of a "trust", legal ownership, ... And even what something IS!!!!

Perhaps in hindsight?....Don't "skim" articles and rely on the grapevine for your information. That way you don't "know all about" something again . Also in hindsight, my original intentions were to add to the thread. I shouldn't have had to defend myself so vigorously.