Heres a true possibility:

[Tom_in_CA]

reply

baby-shoes: You're right: laws are purposefully written vaguely and broadly. So that that way, they can apply to a myriad of circumstances, and meld to fit situations as they arise. Otherwise, everyone would be arguing semantics with cops at every turn. You know, like if a cop tries to ticket you for nudity , you could try to debate him on semantics and say: "But officers, I was wearing a single sock. So technically I was not totally 'nude' or 'naked' ", and so forth.

Hence yes, you have broad laws that do things like forbid "annoyances". Or laws forbidding "disturbing" or "altering" public property. Because written laws can never be specific enough to list every single last thing in the universe that is dis-allowed. So laws have wiggle room for interpretation, on purpose. So that law-enforcement in-the-field has latitude to do their jobs, for pete's sake

However, in THIS particular case (of lost & found laws), I seem to recall that there WAS a specific "$100" threshold in CA. Has that been removed from the CA law? And mind you, all the other 49 states also have dollar value thresholds too, as far as I know.

Maybe it's not in that particular code 485 you cite, but perhaps somewhere else?

If someone has time to research this further, please do. If not, I'll look into it next week when I have time. I have a subscription to a lawyer service 800#, that allows me to call in with legal questions and talk to an attorney over the phone. That's how I got the lost & found laws for CA in the past. But right now, the exact citation # escapes me, as this topic hasn't come up in so long. Perhaps the laws have changed? Or it's there, and not covered by 485?

Because if the criteria IS $100 (in the example of CA), and it states you must turn in items to the police that exceed that value, then it really becomes a mute point of " .... circumstances which give him knowledge of or means of inquiry as to the true owner ". It won't matter "knowlege" or "means" anyhow. It would simply go by $100, and again, not an issue of you trying your own repatriation attempts, but rather, to leave that to the cops.

If anyone can find if # 485 is the ONLY thing said now, and if so, when did the "$100" and "turn in to the police" parts get stricken from the law here?

 

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[maipenrai]

Also, I think the items over $100 value, MUST be turned over to the police, and then they have their own system of finding the owner, which includes "lost and found" adds in three different local papers. So you cant legally just go around posting on telephone poles or using Craigslist. After all this is done, and the owner is found, I think you are entitled to a 10% finders fee. So now you have a grand total of $10, for all your troubles!

 

[Tom_in_CA]

maipenrai, do you have the citation/reference for the "$100" criteria?

 

[maipenrai]

No, but im sure that I read it on TN before. Either that, or a park ranger at Salmon Creek told me.

 

[mariposagold]

Tom, I haven't completed my research on this yet. I hope to have some time to work on it over the coming weekend. Also, I have a friend at the D.A.'s office that I can run it by as well. Of course their interpretation is relevant for obvious reasons.

 

[mariposagold]

By the way, Mariposagold, some 40 years ago I lived not far from OakHurst and Mariposa in a valley called Bailey Flats. Are you familiar with it?

Oh, yes I am. I've gotten lost driving in that area a few times. Pretty countryside. Raymond, Ca.

 

[srcdco]

This is a very interesting thread. I've researched this before for NY state. I'm not going to copy and paste what I found as it is extremely lengthy, but I will post the link to the section of state law that applies:

Laws of New York

Basically, if anything is found with a value of $10 or more, it is to be turned over to the police so they can attempt to find the owner. The amount of time that they have to hold it is dependent on the value of the item (the more it's worth, the longer the time). It says if the item is worth less than $10, the finder has to make "reasonable effort" to find the true owner. There's that vague wording again. What I believe is reasonable is probably not what others believe is reasonable. I'm sure that's true of everyone. If you don't want to read all of it, check out sections 252, 253, and 257.

The reason that I looked into this about 4 years ago was because my wife found a $50 bill in the parking lot of our local grocery store and wanted to "do the right thing". I told her to take it to the Sheriff's department. She did. Since the value was less than $100, they only had to keep it for 3 months. At the end of the 3 months, I contacted them and asked if they still had it or if they found the owner. They still had it, so I told her to go get it. The funny thing is, she won't spend it. She keeps it in the evidence bag that they gave it back to her in.

Scott

 

[Tom_in_CA]

reply

thanx for chiming in Scott. Wow, $10? That's no doubt a threshold left over from the old days, where perhaps $10 was a man's wage for the day. Obviously not been adjust for inflation in modern times

And even $100 is seemingly silly threshold, and obviously md'rs flaunt that left & right, as evidenced by a quick look at any beach-hunting finds-forum. However, believe it or not, finders of lost property have actually been convicted (or at least very seriously "roughed up") by such statutes!

There's the true story of a young couple in a small town in the Pac. Northwest (OR or WA, I forget): They were walking across the parking lot on their way to the grocery store. The lady looked down, and eyeballed a ring. She picked it up. The diamond-looking stone in it was SO large, that the couple thought it was merely costume jewelry (or CZ at best). But upon arriving home, and looking closer through a loop, they saw that it was marked gold (14 or 18k or whatever). So they figured they should at least get it checked out, to see if the stone too were real (because if so, it would be on the order of something ridiculous like a 2k diamond or whatever).

So a day or two later, they took it to the single jewelry store that existed in this small town. They asked the jeweler if he could check out this ring, and tell them if the stone was real or not. And if so, what is the value. The jeweler looked at it through his loops, but ended up telling them that he wasn't a gemologist specialist, so he wasn't going to be able to give them an accurate assessment. However, he told them that a travelling gemologist makes his rounds, and drops by various smaller town jewelry stores on a periodic basis. And if the couple cared to leave the ring there, with their name and number, he would show it to the specialist, who was slated to come by in just a few days.

The young couple agreed to leave the ring there, and left their name and # . A few days later, the gemologist came calling on his rounds. The store owner showed him the ring, and told him that someone had come by asking if it was real, and if so, what was it worth. As the gemologist looked it over, he realized this matched the description of a "BOL" bulliten he'd received from the police. A flyer that had been passed out to any type pawn shops or jewelers who might be asked to fence this. It was listed as stolen/lost.

So the gemologist immediately calls the police. In short order, they show up. They look at the ring, and look at the police report, and determine "yup, this is the ring". So they ask the jeweler "where did you get this?" To which the jeweler merely hands over the young couples name and ph. #. Right then and there, the police set up a sting, and call the persons. Saying "we have your ring here, and a valuation. But rather than go into detail over the phone, why don't you just come down to the shop, and we'll talk to you here".

The minute the couple set foot in the store, the trap was sprung, and they were arrested (or read the riot act, or ........ some such tone of things, I forget the exact details). The couple tried in vain to explain that they had only "found" it. But sure, put yourself in the cops or sherriff's shoes: The "I found it" explanation is what EVERY thief says when caught with stolen goods, right? So the cops weren't buying it, and they were being treated as criminals. In fact, to have even asked "what's it worth", was seen ..... legally .... as a precursor to attempting to sell it, for instance. hence this couple was in a lot of trouble now, apparently.

What had happened evidentally, was the wealthy lady who lost it, simply didn't know where it had gone missing. She had been travelling, and been at multiple places, in multiple cities, over a long day that day it went missing. So she didn't know if it was stolen (like perhaps the maid stole it off the night-stand at the hotel??). So when she'd gone to make an insurance claim, the insurance instructs her to get a police report. And the police, in turn, label such things as "stolen/lost" or whatever, since ..... no one knows, and perhaps even the lady who lost it, thought it was stolen (as opposed to mere fumble fingers loss).

And one of the laws that was used to grill and hassle the young couple who found it, was ... you guessed it: LOST AND FOUND LAWS of that state.

 

[Bitpusher]

I'm probably the nicest guy you'll ever meet. If I found something valuable and had any chance of getting it back to the person who lost it, I'd do it.

That said, you guys put way, way too much thought into what the law thinks about it. Shove it in your pocket and move on with life. Live according to your morality, not what some old guy in a black dress says is "right".

 

[Tom_in_CA]

I'm probably the nicest guy you'll ever meet. If I found something valuable and had any chance of getting it back to the person who lost it, I'd do it.

That said, you guys put way, way too much thought into what the law thinks about it. Shove it in your pocket and move on with life. Live according to your morality, not what some old guy in a black dress says is "right".

I agree bitpusher. And I guess that was just my point: That anyone, on any forum, who says he's going to abide by all laws, simply doesn't know how many laws he's breaking, and hasn't asked enough of the right questions.

So realistically then, if you find yourself in a situation of "no one really cares", then let THAT be the guide. And hence, I would extend that to the conversations /topics of all the people worrying about "is detecting allowed at such & such park or school or whatever". FORGET foraging around through dry-dusty minutia. Just stop for a minute, and ask yourself "does anyone really care?" If not, then ....... what's the problem ?

So that's why I bring this up, to show the absurdity of how it can be, if we all start trying to "keep all the laws". It borders on ridiculous, when in fact, no one really cares, as you rightly point out.

 

[uriline]

A great moral question. I think that with all lost items including animals (estrays) there is a time period for recovery. Legally you should report your find to an authority. and after the prescribed time frame it becomes yours. I found a beautiful ring on a beach so reported it to the local sheriff, put it on facebook and put up a poster, No one claimed it within two weeks so my conscience was now clear and it became mine. This is a hobby that has to take the moral high ground to counteract the negative (grave robber) type publicity.

 

[BabyNeedsANewPairO'Shoes]

A great moral question. I think that with all lost items including animals (estrays) there is a time period for recovery. Legally you should report your find to an authority. and after the prescribed time frame it becomes yours. I found a beautiful ring on a beach so reported it to the local sheriff, put it on facebook and put up a poster, No one claimed it within two weeks so my conscience was now clear and it became mine. This is a hobby that has to take the moral high ground to counteract the negative (grave robber) type publicity.

I would be VERY interested in how you put it on Facebook and a poster in a way that prevents anyone from just saying "It's Mine!" What did you do to prevent fraud?

 

[cudamark]

When I post a "found" ad on Craig's list, I just say approximately where it was found and that to claim it, they need to give a detailed description, when it was lost, and a fairly close area. A sample of what I usually say goes something like this....."Found a ring today with my metal detector at _____. Contact me with a detailed description if you'd like to have it back". No photo of the item or location. I've had a few people try to play 20 questions, but mostly there is no problem doing it this way.

 

[RustyGold]

That ring still belongs to your wife and if you have a clue to who has found it then they need to return it! Why? Because, I feel, it's the right thing to do!
She lost it and effectively hired someone to find it! Just because another person found it doesn't remove the "lost" or ownership status!

 

[cudamark]

If that's the case, the Atocha and all it's cargo still belongs to Spain.....or the people that were enslaved to produce the goods. There has to be a point where something lost, has become ownerless.