HELP ME WITH PERMISSION

[upstate hang gang]

I AM ONLY 14 AND HAVE BEEN RESEARCHING LAND AROUND MY HOUSE FOR SEVERAL YEARS. i WENT ON MY COUNTY WEBSITE AND FOUND THE TAX MAP WITHE THE PROPERTY LINES AND PARCEL NUMBERS. FROM THERE I TOOK THE NUMBERS INTO THE TOWN CLERK AND HAD HER RUN THE NUMBERS TO COME UP WITH A NAME AND ADDRESS OF THE LAND OWNER. DO I EXPLAIN TO THE LAND OWNER HOW I FOUND OUT THAT HE OWNED THE LAND? AM NOT SURE WHAT TO SAY TO THE LAND OWNER WHEN I APPROACH HIM(PLEASE HELP). THIS IS WERE THE STORY GETS TRICKY. I FOUND TOPOGRAPHIC MAPS FROM 1898 ON THE INTERNET AND WAS IN SEARCH OF SOME CELLAR HOLES. I FOUND ONE EASILY ACCESSIBLE AND ASKED THE FARMER. HE WAS VERY NICE AND GLADLY SAID YES. HE EXPLAINED TO ME WHERE HIS PROPERTY EXTENDED TO AND WE TALKED HISTORY FOR OVER AN HOUR. HE ALSO SAID THAT HE HAD RETIRED AND NOW LEASED THE LAND TO OTHER FARMERS. I LATER WENT DETECTING AND FOUND A 1862 INDIAN HEAD PENNY ( EXCELLENT CONDITION). SOME MONTHS LATER I WAS ON A FAR FIELD HE TOLD ME WAS HIS. THIS SPOT DATES BACK TO THE 1600'S. I RODE MY BIKE DOWN WITH THE SHOVEL BUNGY CORDED TO THE HANDLE BARS AND MY DETECTOR ON MY BACK. I SAW THE FARMER WAS USING HIS COMBINE AND THOUGHT NOTHING OF IT. IT WAS BOW SEASON AND WAS IN FULL HUNTERS ORANGE. ABOUT AN HOUR AND A HALF IN I HEARD THE COMBINE STOP. I THOUGHT NOTHING OF IT. SEVERAL MINUTES LATER HE HAD WALKED FROM HIS COMBINE A THOUSAND FEET AWAY. I TURNED AROUND AND HE WAS FORTY FEET AWAY(HE MADE ME JUMP FROM MY SKIN). I SAID ''HELLO'' AND HE REPLIED THE SAME. HE SAID,''YOU KNOW YOUR NOT ON YOUR LAND,RIGHT''. I REPLIED,''YES, MR. W*** GAVE ME PERMISSION TO DETECT ON THIS LAND. HE SAID HE OWNED THE LAND AND I REPLIED VERY RESPECTFULLY THAT I WAS MISTAKEN. AS HE WAS VERY KIND BUT SAID HE HAS HAD A BAD EXPERIENCE WITH DETECTOR USERS PREVIOUSLY. AND EXPLAINED HOW THEY DIDN'T FILL IN THE HOLES AND THAT MADE THE COMBINE,WHEN PLOWING, DOG OUT. AS HE WALKED AWAY I ASKED IF HE WOULD MIND IF I DETECTED IN A RESPECTFUL FASHION. HE REPLIED SAYING I COULD FINISH UP THE BUT AFTER THAT HE WOULD PREFER NOT. I ASKED IF HE WOULD CONSIDER SPLITTING THE FINDS AND HE REPLIED'' TECHNICALLY THE ITEMS ARE ON MY PROPERTY SO I OWN THEM.'' I AGREED OUT OF RESPECT AND SAID ENJOY YOUR DAY I THEN CALLED THE FIRST FARMER AND EXPLAINED What HAPPENED. I THEN LET,FIGURING THE SOONER I LEAVE THE BETTER OF A CHANCE I WILL HAVE THE NEXT TIME IF I DECIDE TO ASK FOR PERMISSION IN THE FUTURE.


DID I DO THE RIGHT THING AND HOW SHOULD I APPROACH HIM THE NEXT TIME I ASK?

 

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[RJGMC]

You did the right thing. Sometimes land owners change their mind. You were doing what was right, filling your holes, but somewhere along the line some one else did not. You did not argue or raise a fuss, it is his land. You found a good spot once, now go back and find another.

It took me multiple years to track down the person that could give me permission to hunt a 9 square block ghost town in south east Kansas. The local sherriff had the say so for the owner who lived a few hours away. I met with him, visited, explained and such. At this point in time it is just a cut soybean field. He said no, his reason were that they had problems with people driving 4 wheel drive trucks through there, some one had dumped the remanants of a meth lab, ran into a telephone pole, damaged a fence, etc. But her I sit and offer him my name, license info, truck tag, etc. No was the final answer. I was not a happy camper. Once again, because someone before me had messed it up for others.

I am pretty sure most people will tell you yes.

Don't be discouraged. Just keep doing your homework, and asking.

Good luck!

RJGMC
HI BOB!

 

[mineralized_miner]

Hey, I'm 14 too! You're lucky to have the resources I do, I don't have a town clerk or tax maps and such. I think you did the right thing at the time, but you could haveshowed him one of your filled holes and showed him how respectfully you filled them in. That's what I would've done. How did you dig in the frozen dirt? I have trouble digging here, and it is only 28 degrees, I cannot imagine upstate NY. Well I can, my grandparents live there...

Maybe you could approach him with your father and get him to see how you fill in holes and he may let yo back on his property. An 1862 penny is one year older than my oldest coin (coincidently a penny), and I have a Coinmaster GT, and don't know how the Pro is. So it about evens out! But nice job!

I hope I could be of help,
mineralized_miner

 

[austin]

Guys, you may run into problems due to your age. As minors, your parents are on the hook for whatever happens to you. That means they could sue the landowner who gave you permission to hunt...

 

[cudamark]

I don't see anything wrong with what you did (except leaving the caps lock on!) Sometimes you can do everything right and the answer is still NO....even if it started out as a Yes. If you're still friends with the 1st farmer, drop by now and then to say hi and to show him some of your finds from elsewhere. If he knows the 2nd farmer well, and is friends with him, he might be able to help get you permission to search the other farm. Stay friendly and keep showing responsibility. The word will get around that you're not a problem and it might open other doors you don't know about yet.

 

[Pointman]

Take advantage of the fact that you are 14. When you get "old" people are less likely to want to make exceptions for you.

Seriously, practice on some houses that you know that you will get a positive response to hunt on and build your confidence, and you may need an adult to stand on the bottom step while you knock.

I still get nervous and I have literally knocked on at least 100 doors. I average about 80-90% on getting a "yes", IF someone is home. Rarely, I have gotten a flat out "No". It is usually "I don't own the property, I only rent". I still have to almost force myself to door knock and sometimes I get very surprised. I have found the less I ask like I am reading a skit the better. Generally, I small talk and then ask, in laid back fashion such as "would you mind if I swing a detector in your yard". If you go in stiff like someone has you at gunpoint from behind, people will sense it.

Also, carry something you could sign where you don't hold the landowner liable if you get hurt on their property. I have only heard this concern once, but being a kid, they are less likely to allow you on their property if they think that your parents will sue them if you get hurt detecting on their land.

 

[Pointman]

Oh, and I borrowed this from some website. You may be able to copy and paste this to a word document and change as required. Hope I don't get sued from borrowing this :

Permission to Metal Detect on Private Property
I, _____________________________________ agree to allow (type your name and address), to use a metal detector to search for and recover buried coins, relics and other artififacts located on my property at ________________________________. In addition, I offer my service to you. If you or a family member have lost a valuable piece of jewelry or other significant metal object, I am happy to search and find it at no charge or cost to you. It is understood that recovery includes the digging of small holes which will be repaired as nearly as possible to original condition. This permission will remain in effect until such time that it is revoked in writing.
________________________________ (Signature) ______________ (Date)
Liability Waiver Form
In consideration of permission to use a metal detector to search for and recover metal artifacts on the property located at ___________________________________ and owned by ____________________________ , I, (type your name), agree to release from all liability for personal injury or property damage that I may suffer as the result of my searching said property. This release is binding and discharges said owner, his or her heirs, executors, administrators, from all actions, causes of action, claims and demands for, upon, or by reason of any damage, loss, injury which I may sustain while engaged in metal detecting on the owner’s property.
______________________________(Signature)
_________________________________________(Address)
__________________(Date)

 

[mudd]

you kids keep it up, good to see your interested in something other then Xbox. You will have a good time in life as long as you keep at whatever you love..
I do not know one 14 year old that would rather be outside finding history, Good luck too you.
MUDD

 

[cudamark]

Oh, and I borrowed this from some website. You may be able to copy and paste this to a word document and change as required. Hope I don't get sued from borrowing this :

Permission to Metal Detect on Private Property
I, _____________________________________ agree to allow (type your name and address), to use a metal detector to search for and recover buried coins, relics and other artififacts located on my property at ________________________________. In addition, I offer my service to you. If you or a family member have lost a valuable piece of jewelry or other significant metal object, I am happy to search and find it at no charge or cost to you. It is understood that recovery includes the digging of small holes which will be repaired as nearly as possible to original condition. This permission will remain in effect until such time that it is revoked in writing.
________________________________ (Signature) ______________ (Date)
Liability Waiver Form
In consideration of permission to use a metal detector to search for and recover metal artifacts on the property located at ___________________________________ and owned by ____________________________ , I, (type your name), agree to release from all liability for personal injury or property damage that I may suffer as the result of my searching said property. This release is binding and discharges said owner, his or her heirs, executors, administrators, from all actions, causes of action, claims and demands for, upon, or by reason of any damage, loss, injury which I may sustain while engaged in metal detecting on the owner’s property.
______________________________(Signature)
_________________________________________(Address)
__________________(Date)

Having various forms in reserve is a good idea but I wouldn't be too eager to use them. Produce one if asked, but don't volunteer one. I like keeping my forms separate and not combined. If a landowner has a concern about liability, I produce a form to cover just that aspect. If they want a division of finds agreement, I produce that form. If it's just permission that you want in writing, that's separate too. No use bringing up subjects that they have no concern over.....until you point it out to them! You might also want to print up a little info sheet about what you do and how you do it. Maybe mention some connection with a historical society or references of places you've hunted. I made one for myself that hopefully will peak their interest in what might be buried on their property. If nobody is home, they can't talk at the moment, or they balk at giving permission, hand them a flyer and tell them you'll contact them later at a better time after they've had a chance to read it. I always put my phone number, e-mail address, and web site on the flyer too so they can check you out and ease their mind that you're not just some bum looking for change.

 

[Sandman]

Cudamark gave excellent advice and all I can add to it is not be seen with a shovel. There are guys looking for old coins and these shouldn't use shovels. An then there are the ones looking for I don't know what but they always dig deep holes and usually leave them. The use of a Pinpointer would help you find the coins faster.

 

[austin]

Guys, that liability waiver is priceless AND needed...

 

[cudamark]

Not by me it isn't. I only have it to pacify the land owner. I wouldn't sue someone because of my own ineptness.

 

[Rob in KS]

Hey Upstate,
You did EXACTLY the right thing. You didn't get all huffy and make an enemy. You can't help it that someone before you left open holes. At least he was pretty nice about it.

I can see the farmer's point too. It'll scare the crap out of you if you drop the front wheel of a tractor into a hole. They don't have suspension like a car. And they cost more than your parents house.

Sometimes in a field, you have to use a shovel instead of a hand digger. If they plow the field things can be up to a foot deep. I found a draft horse shoe at 14" (below the plow depth) the field must have been wet and the horse bogged down in the mud.

I always make it a point to find out something about the landowner before I knock on doors. It helps a lot if you know something about the history of the area. I like it when they are older folks. It seems like the younger folks (middle aged to you) are suspicious from the start. If they are older (think grandpa or even great grandpa) , and you know some history, you can talk for an hour on the front porch. They can be a great source of more leads. I haven't knocked on that many doors because I live in a rural area but I almost always get a yes.

I have that liability form too. I retyped it in Word. I've only used it once and I didn't need it then. I wouldn't even mention it unless the landowner wanted something in writing.

I know it scary to knock on somebody's door and I'm 60. But I've met some really nice people.

You got some great advice here, good luck and post some great finds. You live in an area where you could find some really old stuff.

 

[Rob in KS]

Hey mineralized miner
I'll bet the tax records for your county are online. Look up the county clerks office (google is your friend). Learn how they describe property in range/township/section. They have their own language. R21 T18 S36 NW2 That says the NW half of section 36 in range 21 and township 18.

When I find the landowner, I look up the owners name to see if I can find out anything about him. One time when I did this, I found a link to a geneology site that had a story about the family when they homesteaded the land (1870's). They stayed at the cabin of a friend and that night there was a snow storm. This caused them to be a mile off on staking their claim. It put them in a wet lands, it is still called the Kuban marsh and the family still lives in the area today.

While its all cold and snowy, use the time to do research. Read old posts here on T-net. There is wealth on information.

 

[Pointman]

I have only heard one landowner mention "getting hurt", but they were also just finding some reason not to allow me to hunt.

I have never produced or had to use the liability form. I carry one, but I don't admit to having it or it being a concern. I also always try and downplay what I find (only a few pennies), unless I know that the homeowner doesn't care.

I did so well at one lady's house and she had allowed me to hunt multiple times on her property with people that I had offered to pay her a little, but she didn't take it. She lives alone and this winter, I arrived with a ladder and buckets to clean out her gutters and roof. That was the least I could do for her. For me, a lot of it is about the relationships I make and not the finds.

 

[cudamark]

Well done Pointman! A little kindness will go a long way in our hobby. It will open doors you don't know about yet. I once helped an old guy clean out his yard for the privilege of hunting the property. Didn't find much in the way of coins or jewelry but he told me he wanted to get rid of a bunch of stuff in his shed and to take anything there I wanted. I offered to pay him for some items but he refused. He said if I didn't take them, they were going to the dump. Found some nice old car parts in that shed including a Hillborn fuel injection setup for an old Dodge engine. Got over $800 for it on E-bay!

 

[Pointman]

I've had one happy neighbor talk with another and then I end up with another house...actually this just reminds me that I have a new house that I haven't hunted that was found for me by someone I met detecting.

Great, I have a place to go tomorrow.