Whipped Before I Start . ..

[Tom_in_CA]

h-beaton, re.: your post # 20. Good read. Well-written. All I can say is that , sure, it's our common desire to not feel like we have to look over-our-shoulders. I mean, who wouldn't want a "carte-blanche" wherever they hunt, to know for-sure that "no one can gripe". Ie.: who WOULDN'T want "express allowances" ? [Eg.: signs saying "metal detecting welcome here", blah blah]

If it were possible to secure such cart-blanches, then yes, we'd all be doing so. However, the devil is in the details. The trouble is, that there's been many cases of us md'rs going around seeking clarifications, permissions, etc..., only to end up with places OFF limits (that previously were not an issue, so long as you weren't being a nuisance).

Hence I hate to say it, but it's almost like you have to realize that we're in a hobby that you're simply NOT going to get 100% of the populace to "sign off on you". I certainly wish it wasn't that way. But no amount of pleading, solidarities, petitions, lobbying, etc... is going to change that. You gotta have a tough skin in certain hobbies, and an ability to avoid-those-who-might-gripe. And this is one of them.

 

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[Trapper John]

Here's a follow-up to my original post, which I remind you was written somewhat tongue-in-cheek.

Since its writing I have contacted six different entities regarding land access. One government agency - ODFW - refused permission and went on to say that "he" decided to allow detecting but not digging on "his" preserve. To this I replied, "So I can go wherever I choose listening to my detector hum and buzz, as long as I don't dig to see why it's humming and buzzing?" He assured me that would be okay. I went on to say that I could save on batteries by simply walking along "his" ground and swinging my detector with the switch off. He allowed that would be okay too. I then said by extension of logic that it would be okay to just walk around going "Beep-Beep-Whir-Woozle-Beep" while moving my right arm back and forth in an arc with no detector at all. He said that would be fine although if anyone complained that I was acting oddly, disturbing their peace, or violating their rhats to sunbathe in the nude he would probably have to arrest me. I was going to ask him if it would be helpful if I walked about chirping, beeping, and swinging in the nude but something told me not to press my luck.

I contacted one other state agency and was told I could go exploring whenever and wherever I wanted to on their property just don't forget the Antiquities Act and use common sense. Another local agency is getting back to me and is considering allowing me access if I tell them where I'm gonna detect and agree to be kind of a volunteer scout for any suspicious activities on site such as marauding bands of the Homeless.

Two public corporations were contacted and the lawyers of one have yet to get back to me. The other corp. told me to keep out and shots might be fired if I didn't. This sounded a bit extreme to me but I figure they are probably growing some illicit substance on the land in question. That will become a moot point in July because Oregon has legalized cannabis and everyone in Oregon will have a backyard plot by then.

One private land owner said sure come out any time as we consider ourselves to be stewards of this land and enjoy sharing it with others.

So, what we have here is a mixed bag of requests with predictably varied responses. At present I have clear permission to access more than 1600 acres of detectable land. I realize that might be about as productive as having permission to hang my laundry at the pinnacle of the Empire State Building, but since I am new to this hobby I likely won't have a clue as to what I am doing for the first 1592 of those acres anyway. Plus, I can still go back to the ODFW's guy's place and just say "Huh?" and them babble at him in a foreign language if he accosts me. (This is the first time that I am glad that I took Latin and Russian during my formative years. I may get a chance to use them both.)

This discussion and my private queries have confirmed to me that, like most things in life, there are no absolutes and one must do what one must do. My AT Pro arrives tomorrow and I will play with it in my backyard test bed a while before heading out. But when I get to that point I will for sure be listening for the rattle of key chains.

 

[olprofessor]

Sounds like good advice. Im new to the hobby and have already gotten barked at a couple of times. Id be lying if I said it didnt really bug me, but I try to keep in mind that 'what they dont know wont hurt them OR me', so I curse under my breath and come back when they'll likely not be there....

 

[kayakpat]

If you don't own it you have no rights, We live in a capitalist society where the foundation of capitalism is private property(capital) in everything , land ,resources, intellectial property etc. Public property is property the government has set aside from the private market and held in trust as a public asset, and and subject to elected representives who set the rules and regulations. violations can be very costly, I think the more people there are the stricter they will get including the private owners as to be able to do things. Being nice and following owners concerns seems to go along way in being allowed to do something, other times just the sheer number of people involved make things harder to get permission. So if you either buy proprty or follow rules and don't abuse the situation and you should be able to find plenty of places to MD

 

[Trapper John]

If you don't own it you have no rights, We live in a capitalist society where the foundation of capitalism is private property(capital) in everything , land ,resources, intellectial property etc. Public property is property the government has set aside from the private market and held in trust as a public asset, and and subject to elected representives who set the rules and regulations. violations can be very costly, I think the more people there are the stricter they will get including the private owners as to be able to do things. Being nice and following owners concerns seems to go along way in being allowed to do something, other times just the sheer number of people involved make things harder to get permission. So if you either buy property or follow rules and don't abuse the situation and you should be able to find plenty of places to MD

KP's response is thoughtful and insightful. I especially like the observation relating the sheer number of people correlating with increased scrutiny and regulation. Virtually every hobby I have ever participated in is now highly regulated. I must secure permits, buy licenses, stamps, licenses to buy stamps and permits, permits to obtain licenses. None of this is inexpensive. And it will only get worse. You can blame the politicians on the side opposite your beliefs. You can blame corporate greed. You can blame lawyers. Certainly they all have a hand in this.

But, to KP's point, the real issue is the weight of competition for scarce resources that results from more of us wanting to do the same or similar things with those resources. Compounding this pressure are the twin facts that as more of us are involved in the competition, the greater the likelihood that some will attempt to take short cuts. Add to that the second fact - which is that we are a very litigious society - and the posted signs, locked gates, and regulation become the rule rather than the exception.

Since I first posted on this topic I have continued to ask for access to hunt and dig. I have been refused and allowed. I live about forty miles from a major metropolitan area where rural suspicion of urban intruders abounds. That means it takes a bit more tact to broach the subject of permission. Few people are unwilling to talk about the history of an old church or grange hall. After building a little rapport and a couple of visits later the time might be right to ask if anyone has ever checked the premises for memorabilia. After that, asking for permission might be a whole lot easier and productive. I'll be sure to post descriptions of success and failure in the days ahead.

 

[releventchair]

Keep at it T.J..
A pleasant surprise came one day after a couple years detecting around a community when a public works employee offered to unlock and leave a gate open to access a property. Not huge in terms of permission or public land use disputes but an acceptance by someone who understood what I was doing on property maintained by him. Were I damaging anything or reducing value or buggin people ect.. it would not reflect well on him to create greater access.
But then; his daughter lives near me and does not need to worry about her driveway being plowed in winter due to a good neighbor policy.

 

[THing4CSA]

I have opted after all these years to limit most of my TH'ing to private property with the owners permission. Most city parks are overseen by busy bodies that have nothing better to do than to call the police and report 'suspicious persons' at this site. Most of the time I have a chat with the police officer that might check my ID, ask a few questions, then tell me to have a good day. Yes I still search school property but not if the school is doing anything on the property. I do the research of the area and zero in on possible locations of where folks spent more time. I knock on doors and ask permission and most tell me to help myself. I show the property owners all the buckets of junk that I recover as I believe in cleaning up the environment and the property owners seem to appreciate this act. I show the good items that I find and offer them a Civil War bullet if I find a few. Yes I have had a few that told me to get off their property and some that told me in no uncertain terms what I could do with my metal detector. I keep things on the up and up and thank them anyways and wish them a nice day. Many times I end up at their neighbor's property and they will tell their neighbor how we did as far as cleaning up and not making a mess of the property. There are some that will say no as they are afraid of being sued if someone were to get hurt. I explain that I carry a copy of a 'release of liability' that I can give them. With that offer some will say OK and others 'would rather be safe and just say no'. It is not the end of life to be told no. Just move on to the next property in the area. I had one guy say no and his neighbor said OK, I found a lot of older coins and a few Civil War relics on the property. The guy that had told me no came out and asked if I had found anything. When I showed him what I had found he invited me to search his yard. It worked for me! Don't give up if someone says no, just keep going to the next property. I write down the owners name and get their phone number so I can call them the next good weekend to obtain permission to visit again. I don't just show up unless the owner says it is not necessary to call.

 

[Tom_in_CA]

.... . Most city parks are overseen by busy bodies that have nothing better to do than to call the police and report 'suspicious persons' at this site. .....

Which is why I hunt city parks (particularly if we're talking nice turf) at odd-ball times when such lookie-lou gripers are not inclined to be around. Even at night-if-need-be. So peaceful. So serene.

 

[Joe(TX)]

Trapper John....glad that you resolved the problem with the order of your metal detector!....Since you used Paypal...I would have gotten their Resolution Center involved from the get-go....hopefully you found a good detector dealer after all. Now just post some of your adventures whether you found gold or rusty gold.....GL...

 

[Trapper John]

Trapper John....glad that you resolved the problem with the order of your metal detector!....Since you used Paypal...I would have gotten their Resolution Center involved from the get-go....hopefully you found a good detector dealer after all. Now just post some of your adventures whether you found gold or rusty gold.....GL...

Since my first post I have been able to log around thirty hours on my ATPro - still learning it and enjoying "coming up the curve" immensely. I have disciplined myself to do as much research as I can and have learned more about the county I live in over the past seven weeks than I have in the past seven years. In the spirit of keeping on track with this thread's theme I'll try to post my finds in the appropriate locations. Thanks all, for the encouragement and sharp discussion.

 

[johnedoe]

]If you don't own it you have no rights[/U], We live in a capitalist society where the foundation of capitalism is private property(capital) in everything , land ,resources, intellectial property etc. Public property is property the government has set aside from the private market and held in trust as a public asset, and and subject to elected representives who set the rules and regulations. violations can be very costly, I think the more people there are the stricter they will get including the private owners as to be able to do things. Being nice and following owners concerns seems to go along way in being allowed to do something, other times just the sheer number of people involved make things harder to get permission. So if you either buy proprty or follow rules and don't abuse the situation and you should be able to find plenty of places to MD

I hate to be a party pooper here but even if you own it you have no rights anymore....
Not to mention the sheer illusion of owning anything.....
Quit paying your taxes and see how long you own it.

 

[Treasure_Hunter]

Please remember to keep politics not directly related to treasure hunting out of threads. We have a politics forum found under CM for politics..