Heres an example of the "visibility" psychology at work

Tom_in_CA

Gold Member
Mar 23, 2007
13,837
10,360
Salinas, CA
🥇 Banner finds
2
Detector(s) used
Explorer II, Compass 77b, Tesoro shadow X2
Here's an example of the "visibility" psychology at work

Was thinking about how rules can get born regarding md'ing. I have had strong suspicions that a lot of them get born simply because it's in front of someone's desk for their princely approval. But that perhaps had the issue never been on that/those person's plates, then everything would have remained "just fine".

Here's an example of the psychology at work in another arena, but it applies to md'ing perfectly:

I own a company that has street sweepers. We service shopping centers, MHP's, HOA's, industrial plants, quarries, construction sites, etc... And back when I first got into the business in the late 1980s, I had a practice: I would send out an annual letter, inserted in with their monthly bill, with a "customer survey" for them to comment on the quality of the work. A sort of a "how are we doing?" type survey paper . Naturally I figured that such a thing would foster good will, communication, great customer relationships, etc...

But I noticed a trend by the 3rd and 4th year of doing this: Each time annually that we did this, complaints would start rolling in. Or we'd get back negative comments on accounts that, quite frankly, I thought were quite happy and we'd never previously heard a peep out of them. And about the time of year we'd put out those surveys, invariably we'd get a few cancellations because a few customers went bid-comparing and found something cheaper. Hmmm.

All of the sudden it dawned on me: My cute little surveys would no doubt land on some low ranking secretary's A/P desk. She'd forward it on to the site manager or her boss or whatever. And that person (who probably never even saw us or thought about us, since our work was primarily at night), would then be "tasked with answering this". The wheels of their head start turning and perhaps they wonder "gee, how much are we paying these guys?" and "gee, why don't they get the truck docks cleaner?" or "gee, come to think of it, a neighbor did gripe about the noise a few months ago".

I learned way back then to NOT ask silly questions. That the best business tactic is that the LESS they think of you, the better. That ended my annual customer surveys in a heart-beat.

So too is it with MD'ing in my opinion: The less busy-bodies think of us, the better. And don't ask permissions, or seek clarifications. Look things up for yourself.
 

Last edited:

Sandman

Gold Member
Aug 6, 2005
13,398
3,992
In Michigan now.
Detector(s) used
Excal 1000, Excal II, Sovereign GT, CZ-20, Tiger Shark, Tejon, GTI 1500, Surfmaster Pulse, CZ6a, DFX, AT PRO, Fisher 1235, Surf PI Pro, 1280-X, many more because I enjoy learning them. New Garrett Ca
Primary Interest:
All Treasure Hunting
Staying off everyone's radar is a good idea. Don't show anyone your finds, brag about finding stuff. Keep your mug out of news papers. I know your proud of your finds, but shut your mouth.
 

Last edited:

bill from lachine

Gold Member
Oct 30, 2011
22,616
88,899
Quebec
🏆 Honorable Mentions:
1
Primary Interest:
Metal Detecting
Tom,

I tend to agree which is why the busier parks and other green spaces I tend to detect early weekend mornings.....sports fields and school yards off season.

The reason is twofold....one I don't want a lot of interruptions and two as you stated by staying under the radar less chance of new bylaws to restrict my access to the sites I hunt.

Regards + HH

Bill
 

OP
OP
Tom_in_CA

Tom_in_CA

Gold Member
Mar 23, 2007
13,837
10,360
Salinas, CA
🥇 Banner finds
2
Detector(s) used
Explorer II, Compass 77b, Tesoro shadow X2
...I tend to detect early weekend mornings..... off season.
..... staying under the radar ...

Bill, and sandman, thanx for chiming in. Yes it seems that some md'rs can't understand why red carpets aren't rolled out for them. Like they should be able to go at "high noon while wearing neon orange", and have nobody gripe.

And if you suggest picking more ... uh .... "opportune" times to detect (as you suggest), they take that to mean we/you are somehow lawless. But it's not necessarily d/t any laws or rules. It's simply to avoid the psychology of "squeeky wheels". Or kind of like nose-picking: you pick discreet times so as not to offend the squeemish.
 

Nitric

Silver Member
Mar 8, 2014
4,796
6,249
Dallas,GA
Detector(s) used
CZ6A
Primary Interest:
All Treasure Hunting
I think your right. I never really thought about it before....But if you have to ask "how do you like the job I did?" it might make it look like your doubting your work? Or that you were doing the least amount as possible, trying to keep the customer happy at the same time. Then They start to question you or your job. That's interesting to think about.

If I walk into a place and don't see a complaint box? I don't think of a complaint. If I see one then I start to think about evrything around me,the service,the product. And before I know? I might have a complaint! Because that is what's being asked to look for, in a round about way.:dontknow:
 

Last edited:

supertraq

Sr. Member
May 8, 2014
402
152
Pcola fl
Detector(s) used
Fisher cz6a,,,Fisher cz-20,,,,Teknetics gamma 6000,,"Tek Eurotek pro ,,Fisher gold bug s.e 2.9er,,Tek T2 ltd se,,Tek T2+,,Minelab Vanquish 540 and 340 and a new Nokta Legend and Garret Infinium
Primary Interest:
Metal Detecting
Good thread,I like to fly under the radar as much as possible.
I'm divorced and most family gone now so on holidays,thanksgiving, Christmas etc.I hunt places I normally wouldn't.
Heck nobodies out on those days so I do my thing.
 

Last edited:

Imfishboy

Jr. Member
Jan 30, 2015
62
38
Sonoma County,Ca
Detector(s) used
MXT ALL PRO
Primary Interest:
All Treasure Hunting
Good thread,I like to fly under the radar as much as possible.
I'm divorced and most family gone now so on holidays,thanksgiving, Christmas etc.I hunt place I normally wouldn't.
Heck nobodies out on those days so I do my thing.

You said it right!
 

Honest Samuel

Banned
Sep 23, 2015
8,814
4,969
Connecticut
Detector(s) used
Minelab
Primary Interest:
All Treasure Hunting
Staying off everyone's radar is a good idea. Don't show anyone your finds, brag about finding stuff. Keep your mug out of news papers. I know your proud of your finds, but shut your mouth.

Like Karl V. Muller used to write all the time, brag about the treasures that you had found and you end up with no treasure, and maybe jail time. Good advice.
 

S

stefen

Guest
There's a story about a young man who prayed daily for a new bicycle, and his prayers were never fulfilled, so he borrowed a bicycle.

The parallel analogy is that its far easier to apologize than pray.
 

JD's Variety Channel

Full Member
Dec 27, 2012
120
281
Knoxville, TN
Detector(s) used
Minelab E-trac w/ Sunray X-1 Probe & Teknetics T2 Special
Primary Interest:
Metal Detecting
Was thinking about how rules can get born regarding md'ing. I have had strong suspicions that a lot of them get born simply because it's in front of someone's desk for their princely approval. But that perhaps had the issue never been on that/those person's plates, then everything would have remained "just fine".

Here's an example of the psychology at work in another arena, but it applies to md'ing perfectly:

I own a company that has street sweepers. We service shopping centers, MHP's, HOA's, industrial plants, quarries, construction sites, etc... And back when I first got into the business in the late 1980s, I had a practice: I would send out an annual letter, inserted in with their monthly bill, with a "customer survey" for them to comment on the quality of the work. A sort of a "how are we doing?" type survey paper . Naturally I figured that such a thing would foster good will, communication, great customer relationships, etc...

But I noticed a trend by the 3rd and 4th year of doing this: Each time annually that we did this, complaints would start rolling in. Or we'd get back negative comments on accounts that, quite frankly, I thought were quite happy and we'd never previously heard a peep out of them. And about the time of year we'd put out those surveys, invariably we'd get a few cancellations because a few customers went bid-comparing and found something cheaper. Hmmm.

All of the sudden it dawned on me: My cute little surveys would no doubt land on some low ranking secretary's A/P desk. She'd forward it on to the site manager or her boss or whatever. And that person (who probably never even saw us or thought about us, since our work was primarily at night), would then be "tasked with answering this". The wheels of their head start turning and perhaps they wonder "gee, how much are we paying these guys?" and "gee, why don't they get the truck docks cleaner?" or "gee, come to think of it, a neighbor did gripe about the noise a few months ago".

I learned way back then to NOT ask silly questions. That the best business tactic is that the LESS they think of you, the better. That ended my annual customer surveys in a heart-beat.

So too is it with MD'ing in my opinion: The less busy-bodies think of us, the better. And don't ask permissions, or seek clarifications. Look things up for yourself.

I agree completely.

I think part of what you are getting at is passive negligence. Which is unfortunately very common. Unless the issue is brought up to discuss. Then as you said, all of a sudden people are spinning their own conclusions based on the wrong, or very little criteria. I think many people live as if what they don't know can't hurt them. So unless you tell them, they will never figure it out, nor will it ever matter to them. :)

I am self employed. And I agree with your view. You follow-up to check satisfaction. Then before you know it people are placing unrealistic standards on you, I guess they figure their utter happiness is all that matters, and you can control everything in the universe. If you know you did a good job and offered good service, then let them contact you with any problems or compliments.

And if you send out surveys, promotions or holiday cards. Make sure there's something free or useful included. :laughing7:
 

OP
OP
Tom_in_CA

Tom_in_CA

Gold Member
Mar 23, 2007
13,837
10,360
Salinas, CA
🥇 Banner finds
2
Detector(s) used
Explorer II, Compass 77b, Tesoro shadow X2
Thanx JD. There's been many places where md'ing was a "non-issue". But that era came to a crashing end, the minute someone went asking permission or seeking clarification. Therefore, when I see someone advising another md'r to "go get permission" (from city hall, schools, etc...) I cringe. While it seems like a no-brainer and harmless (hey, you "can't be too safe", right?) yet as you can see, it can become a self-fulfilling vicious circle.

So when you tell those people "don't ask, just go", that is seen as advocating "breaking laws" or "being sneaky", etc... Aaarrgggh. Then sometimes I feel like saying: alright, if you want to call it that, fine, call it whatever you want.
 

JD's Variety Channel

Full Member
Dec 27, 2012
120
281
Knoxville, TN
Detector(s) used
Minelab E-trac w/ Sunray X-1 Probe & Teknetics T2 Special
Primary Interest:
Metal Detecting
Thanx JD. There's been many places where md'ing was a "non-issue". But that era came to a crashing end, the minute someone went asking permission or seeking clarification. Therefore, when I see someone advising another md'r to "go get permission" (from city hall, schools, etc...) I cringe. While it seems like a no-brainer and harmless (hey, you "can't be too safe", right?) yet as you can see, it can become a self-fulfilling vicious circle.

So when you tell those people "don't ask, just go", that is seen as advocating "breaking laws" or "being sneaky", etc... Aaarrgggh. Then sometimes I feel like saying: alright, if you want to call it that, fine, call it whatever you want.

Yeah Tom. I think people also under estimate the power of common sense. To us, it's obvious the places you don't detect. Like a well manicured high school sports field. The most ritzy, well kept park in the downtown business district where 2 million people can see you at all times, etc..... Most times I've had issues is people having a melt down when they see the size of my T-handle shovel, even though it's smaller than a traditional spade. The psychology says, bigger shovel, bigger hole. LOL. When I'm at a home permission where the owner is worried about "tearing up their lawn" or in a public place where more eyes are there. I try to use a hand trowel more. As for more psychology, I noticed if you say hand trowel or garden trowel in stead of shovel. Then all of a sudden you're in better standing and ease their mind. People are really something else. :laughing9: I noticed a lot of people getting into the hobby lug around traditional size spades into the parks and make a mess. I don't fool around with federally or privately owned land without permission. But when I travel around to new cities, I'll test the public parks, schools and common green space unless I specifically know they have laws banning it ahead of time. I hunt mostly small towns in TN that no one knows existed, and usually they don't have any laws. So if some local cop or town official wants to run me off, so be it, normally that means it's not a very friendly town and they treat outsiders like crap. And not a fun place to be anyway. They make the rules up as they go. I moved to eastern TN almost 3 years ago and have never even been questioned by a cop one time here, and have only been told to leave by 2 different city employees. One was an employee of a recreational building, who scolded me like she was my mom saying "there's NO digging on city property", and in another city, apparently an official drove by and called the librarian near me to come outside and tell me there's no metal detecting on and city property, anywhere in town. =P
 

Carolina Tom

Gold Member
Apr 4, 2014
10,059
17,063
Charlotte
🏆 Honorable Mentions:
1
Detector(s) used
XP Deus V3.2 9" & 11" Coils, AT Pro, ProPointer AT, Lesche 55, 75 & 80LT
Primary Interest:
Other
Well put Tom. Around here we keep as low a profile as possible. I am cordial to people, however, avoid them like the plague!

A very smart man once said that the quickest way to get a "no" is ask for it.

Best wishes for the holidays!
 

Msbeepbeep

Gold Member
Jun 24, 2012
15,787
24,131
MA
Detector(s) used
M-6, pro pointer, pistol probe
Primary Interest:
All Treasure Hunting
I'm still looking for the ultimate avoidance system, an invisable suit! Till then I keep as low a profile as I can...so far ok!
I follow the "don't ask, don't tell" policy.
 

Davers

Gold Member
Jan 8, 2013
8,127
7,147
N.of , I-285...GA
Detector(s) used
Whites Spc xlt & Tesoro Tejon- Now back ...Fisher 1266-X. TRX Pointer. New .Teknetics G2 + . New AT Pro .
Primary Interest:
All Treasure Hunting
Staying off everyone's radar is a good idea. Don't show anyone your finds, brag about finding stuff. Keep your mug out of news papers. I know your proud of your finds, but shut your mouth.

Example...
When someone ask's ; hey you get anything Good?
I always Reply "Awww Just a Bunch of trash. "
Used that line the Day I found my 1st CW Plate & Many times when I had found Rings at local Parks.

"Don't Start none won't be None"
Davers
 

Msbeepbeep

Gold Member
Jun 24, 2012
15,787
24,131
MA
Detector(s) used
M-6, pro pointer, pistol probe
Primary Interest:
All Treasure Hunting
Ya, if you pull out the pop tops and start bragging about them, people have a tendency to leave you alone. Lol!
 

Top Member Reactions

Users who are viewing this thread

Top