Lost & Found laws, what would you do in this case:

[ARC]

I learned a long time ago my mind doesn't deal in what if's
in the case of what-if's my mind wants to take the Gutter Road
always good for a laugh or a dream of becoming filthy Rich
so where is this school sandbox ?

lol...
Problem solved ! ! !

Just tell Jeff where the sandbox is after you throw the coins back in it.

 

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[ARC]

I can say this...
This is a "pickle"...

If it were me... I would poke and ask some questions about "the coins"...
Maybe ask for some info on the owner... a # for the owner "in case" his coins are found... and for info on the coins.
Perhaps a "reward" could be involved for the return.
Call em up and ask...
Can you describe the coins that were lost or un-accounted for.

If he describes to a "t"... OR even close enough.
I would arrange a meeting and a return.

IF... there is "vague" OR "lameness"...
I would tell him...
Ill let you know if I find anything.

Short of that... IMO they are yours.

 

[agflit]

Ag, so you're saying that prior to the revelation from the Janitor, those guys were under no obligation? Then you would tell that father that his "luck is in the chance meeting of a janitor and an md'r", lest, ...... tough luck to him ? And how about the law of the land ? Even in the absence of that chance janitor meeting, weren't those guys under an obligation to turn in the coins, since they exceed XX value ?

Tom... I'm saying that we all decide what constitutes a reasonable response to any given specific circumstance. We..society...have a certain "expectation" as to what is acceptable and what is not. IN THIS CASE...under these conditions...I'd suggest that a 'reasonable" individual...would logically propose that society would expect the items "belong" to Dad.
Again...this is all about self ethics and individual morality. As far as "turn it into the police let them decide"...*snorts*....maybe if we would spend alittle more effort on personal responsability instead of ceding our moral compass to "Governing" bodies....it's possible this entire debate would be moot.

JMOs

Ag

 

[Treasure_Hunter]

sigh......

 

[Escape]

If they were returned to me I would flip for them with the finder. Your call, heads or tails.

 

[TKgal]

If you were already trying to piece the logic together of how the coins got there, then when the janitor explained the situation..... you know this has to be the guys coins. If you spent or sold some you are not obligated to return, since there was not prior knowledge. But I could not go on validating my ownership of the coins at this point. I would have to set things right and give up the coins to the owner. I think asking a few question as to coins is not unreasonable to insure the guy is on the up and up.

 

[Tom_in_CA]

... IMO they are yours.

AARC, let me see if I understand you correctly: Would this also be your answer, even if you were the coin collection owner ? Ie,: if you were the dad , you'd say the same thing ?

 

[Tom_in_CA]

thanx everyone for taking a stab at this true happening. Great input.

Yes the L&F laws are generally a moot point, it seems we all agree. NO md'rs are in strict compliance with those, lest we'd all be "rushing to the police dept" when you find each ring (or in this case, perhaps even coins that have numismatic values that trigger your state's L&F laws). Yet the last time I looked at the show & tell "today's finds" section, and the beach hunting forum section, there is NO SHORTAGE of md'rs proudly showing their latest show & tell stuff, eh ? And I highly doubt any of them are rushing to the police.

The law doesn't stipulate how long YOU think they were there, or whether YOU think the guy has receipts proof, or whether YOU think he's "still looking for it". And it's not only in effect when you are now appraised that someone's looking for it (versus before when you were blissfully ignorant). None of that is latitude given by the L&F laws. It simply says turn them in.

However, we instinctively know that this is not realistic. We know that *normally* an 1890 $5 gold found at a stage stop is most likely lost at turn-of-century. And we instinctively know that, barring a class ring, etc... that non-identifiable rings, will not likely ever be claimed at police stations. And we instinctively wonder if we'd even get them back, to begin with. The L&F person at the police station could merely say "it was claimed". And they would have no obligation to tell you who picked it up (d/t privacy laws, etc...).

So putting L&F laws aside, this story was really probably about just conscience and ethics upon revelation of probable origin of stuff you've been finding. I personally would hunt the guy down, and get his stuff back to him. Then you have the following problems though: What if your buddy disagrees ? (as several on this thread have). You're in a pickle. Because:

A) sure, you can return your half of them to this guy, but then must look him in the face, and say you have no idea what happened to the still un-accounted for coins (though you know full well your buddy has them). Add to that your buddy now thinks you're a trouble maker, doesn't want to hunt with you anymore, and there's a riff between you guys now.

B) what if you or your buddy had already sold a few on ebay, and you'd since gone out and spent the proceeds? As much as you desire to be honest (as some others of you on this thread sided with) you'd be in a pickle. Personally, I'd include that in with the repatriation attempt, and either try to get his coins back from whomever I'd sold them too (if the buyer allowed), or give the owner the money I'd sold them for.

As for #B, that guy, if he got wind of the fact you'd sold them, could actually force your hand legally I suppose. Since technically you just sold "stolen property" ? Yes I know we don't call it "stolen", we call it "found". But that's where the L&F laws start to weasel their way back into the issue: because in the eyes of the law, you DID steal it, if you didn't turn it in. No different than keeping a bundle of cash that fell out a door of a Brink armored car. You can't say "finders keepers". So too could the father bring legitimate legal concerns to your windfall ebay proceeds. Not saying he would, but .... just sayin'

 

[ARC]

IMO...
Everything happens for a reason... If I have lost it... it is gone for a reason.
If I find it... or it is returned...
Then I have it... or have found it again... it was meant to be.
Life has it funny ways of dealing out its loses and wins.

Who am I to second guess life and the natural order of things.

I am with TH's statement of "sigh".

All I can say is this... in all honesty...
If I knew "who" lost it...
And it could be returned WITH validation of ownership...
I would return it... with hopes of a "finders fee".

But even with no fee...
Its nice to feel like the items found are "free and clear" in my mind... and not a constant reminder of something else.
So ME...
I would hand them over to the rightful owner... just for piece of mind.
Especially if I knew the owner has anguished over them.
Not to mention the kid who is probably STILL on restriction in the fathers mind...
WHO could be "pardoned" completely OR even somewhat by the safe return of said coins.


But... I would be damn sure the coins were THIERS... and not just someone who "heard" about it.

 

[ARC]

Who knows...
Maybe you are the guy...
who shows up at a time needed most by the person(s) who lost them.

The guy or son is $ short of this or that...
And the finding and sale of said coins could / would help or solve.
OR could completely change the course of things.

We may never know.

But even if not...
Then so be it... chalk it up as the way of life... its turns and tricks.
Smile and walk away.

For sometimes it is just easier and better to just drift in life's "stream of things"...
than to row against the current... which is trying to take you in a direction for a reason.



PS > Its a "dog eat dog" world out there...
enough so...
I need not contribute.

Now ask me all this again... when and if... I was starving.
I may take it as a "gift from the gods".

Also...
IF it were my coins lost... and I knew a destitute person found them...
Or really needed them to change THEIR life...
I would have one word.

Good.

 

[cudamark]

Given the parameters of this situation.....If I was the only one who found the coins, I would contact the father and tell him that there may be a possibility that I have some of his coins. I would want a list and/or as much info as I could get to verify his claim of ownership. If we had a match, I would gladly hand them over, reward or not. If I had already sold them, I'd probably just keep quiet about it, unless I could undo the deal and get them back. The father could really make life miserable for you if he wanted to. If a hunting buddy was involved, I would talk to him first and come to an agreement on whether all the coins would be returned, or just mine. I would hold no grudge if he wanted to keep his. I would just return mine and tell the father that if I hear of anyone else who may have found any of the coins and is willing to return them, I'll let him know. As for lost and found laws in general......to me, I make the decision on what I turn in to the police. Coins? NO! Jewelry? NO! Phones? NO! A reasonably freshly dropped gun? YES! Anything else identifiable, I try to research who lost it. I find that part of the fun! The police have better things to do than keep track of who lost what, and try to match what was lost to what was found.

 

[RGINN]

No 'dilemma' or 'pickle' for me. I find these out of place antique coins at a school and hear the story about the lost coin collection, it's not a question. I just call the guy up, ask what he lost, and tell him to come get em. Don't have to struggle with that decision. That's how I would want to be treated. I have returned many things to the proper owners if I could find them. Besides that, those are cool but minor finds, if I don't keep em it ain't gonna make me or break me. (I would like some pics of them though, maybe I'll finally dig up somethin that rates banner.)

 

[Tom_in_CA]

No 'dilemma' or 'pickle' for me. I find these out of place antique coins at a school and hear the story about the lost coin collection, it's not a question. I just call the guy up, ask what he lost, and tell him to come get em. Don't have to struggle with that decision. That's how I would want to be treated. I have returned many things to the proper owners if I could find them. Besides that, those are cool but minor finds, if I don't keep em it ain't gonna make me or break me. (I would like some pics of them though, maybe I'll finally dig up somethin that rates banner.)

Rginn, that's a fair answer. Ok. So what do you do, when you talk to the guy, and he asks you:

"Thankyou. Do you know if anyone else md'ing at this school found any other coins of mine?"

Your choices are:

A) Lie and say: "No. These are the only recovered coins that I know of".

B) Tell the truth and say: "Yes. My buddy found several others"

If you choose option B, then, go figure: He's going to say: Who is your buddy? How can I contact him ?. Then your choices are:

A) Lie and say "I don't know how to contact him. He has no address or ph. #". Or

B) Tell the truth and say: "Here's his contact info".

If you choose option B, then: Assuming your buddy is one of those "don't say anything" type people (because perhaps he already sold some of the coins and spent the $$), here's your conclusion:

You now lost your best friend. He thinks you're a goodie-two-shoes trouble maker blabber mouth. The buddy has to somehow either reimburse this coin collector (legally speaking?) and/or get-the-coins back from whomever he sold them to.

Not as easy as it sounds, eh Rginn ?

 

[Sandman]

Keep you mouth shut!! you never find anything good, only pop caps and pull tabs.

 

[Tom_in_CA]

Keep you mouth shut!! you never find anything good, only pop caps and pull tabs.

Hi sandman. I'm not saying I would happily return the coins, that I am now appraised of knowing belong to a current person. No different than ANY of us would help a little old lady across the street, track and return a class ring, etc....

So it wasn't a matter of for-going an opportunity to rack up an "atteboy" for the good-will of the hobby. I think a lot of us would return the coins, at this new revelation. But just saying that there's baggage and "gotchas" that come with that

 

[Honest Samuel]

I would give them back to the poor dad who lost them ..... karma....always pays off.

I agree with you. The son stole the coins from his daddy, the kids parents should had given the coins back to the janitor who I feel sorry for.

 

[AugustMoose87]

Short answer - give them back.

Long answer - talk with my buddy. If they are the kind of person I want to hang with in the future, they will also want to give them back. Legal situation is muddy at best, but the ethics/moral/karma situation is pretty clear to me. If I was the Dad, I'd want someone to return them to me. I would certainly be doing something to reward them (what exactly would depend on my financial/life situation). And that is not AT ALL to say that it would be easy for me to give them up if I found them, but I would know it was the right thing to do.

 

[Tom_in_CA]

Samuel and August Moose : What do you do if you or your buddy had already sold some of the coins on ebay ? Tell the poor guy that , & just give him the ones you still might have ? Reimburse him ? What if you'd already spent that $$ ?

 

[AugustMoose87]

Depends - i would first try to judge his personality when i returned the coins i still had. If he is being a jerk about it, just say " these are all the coins I have, I'll let you know if I find more" and be done. If he is being reasonable, talk to the guy about it. Explain that I didn't know about his situation until after I sold some. Obviously if he offers a reward for returning the ones I still have, decline as it would help off set the coins I sold.

 

[AugustMoose87]

Also, knowing the back story of the collection would change things too. I'm hoping to get my grandfather's coin collection at some point, and would be devastated if I lost it. If there was an attachment to those coins (and he was being nice/reasonable) I'd help try to track down the coins I sold.

If they were just coins he'd bought over the years, I might offer to contact the people I sold to, but wouldn't go to great lengths to get THOSE coins back