TIRED of Folks Trying to RUN MY LIFE

[ScubaDetector]

Scuba, think back to when you were a cop: Not an easy job, right ? Sometimes you had to make decisions in-the-field, for odd-ball things you encountered on the street, right ? And as such, you know there are laws written broadly, so-as-to- apply to a myriad of things that might arise. For example: Laws that forbid annoyances. Yes vague and arbitrary. But it's impossible to write laws that can *exactly* apply to every single thing that might arise in the field.

THUS YES: Some laws are written broadly, so-as-to allow cops to get their jobs done. Is it rather whimsical and capricious ? Sure! But w/o a little wiggle room written like that, the bad guys would be FOREVER arguing with cops in the field. No cop could ever get his job done.

I'm not saying that there isn't some truly erroneous power-trip cops out there, that have over-stepped the bounds of applying how they think a law should apply. But on the other hand, put yourself in their shoes. And as a past cop, you know how a little respect will go a long way in getting that cop to relax his stance.

Tom,

I have never taken you wrong and I totally agree with you 100%. BUT in order to get respect from me you have to earn it. This sheriff REFUSED to listen to anything I had to say. it was DEMAND and THREATEN from the very first sentence over his PA, making a ton of people go out on the fishing pier to watch the commotion. Yes if I would have got out and left like he demanded, I wouldn't be in this situation.

HOWEVER, I didn't deserve the treatment I got from the start. You are absolutely 100% right about respect. He didn't earn an ounce and I gave him absolutely none.

I will admit, because of my history, I am stubborn when my rights are violated. VERY STUBBORN. Badge or no badge, I could care less.

One thing this will all bring out IF A CITATION EVER comes. Do I have the green light the Harbormaster, the State Police, and the State Conservation officers gave me, OR will the sheriff patrol boat with his threats and demanding demeanor get me a fine in court.

 

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[ScubaDetector]

I still think we should get together and smoke a bowl.

Sorry Terry, I have never touched a drug or smoked anything. In fact I have never in my life been drunk. Guess you have to invite someone else!

 

[Tom_in_CA]

scuba, thanx for chiming in again on my input. Yes, perhaps this case definately did merit you "standing your ground". If so, then we're behind you 100%

I had a military police accost my wife and I, years ago, on an open military base (the public not dis-allowed from being on this base, in the pre 9/11 days). We had gone to the back country of this old base to detect the old PT fields. Before I had even started detecting, and while still getting my gear together @ the back of my truck, this MP rolled up on us.

He started yelling and cursing, etc.... And me, like you, was thinking "wait a second, I'm not doing anything wrong". So I asked the guy "what is your name and badge #". (as if I intended to report him). He ignored my question, and didn't give me his name or badge #. I squinted hard to see his name badge, but he was standing too many paces far away from me, and I couldn't quite make it out. So I took a step towards him (all-the-time squinting to see the name on the badge). And with that single step forward, he pulled his gun and pointed it at me ! (said I had made a "threatening move" , etc...)

We were told to "get back in the vehicle with our hands on the dash" , blah blah . My wife was in tears CERTAIN we were in big trouble for something. All sorts of back-ups arrived at this guys calls. Eventually they let us go, and escorted us all the way back to the exit of the military base.

I WAS P*SSED. My wife was certain that I had gotten us into a boatload of trouble, yet I was certain we'd done nothing wrong, and that this cop was out of line.

So I filed a report/complaint against him. I'll spare you the rest of the story, but the bottom line was: The cop lost his job, and will never carry a gun again ! So yes, there are times when a little standing one's ground is necessary. But on the other hand, it should be a last resort, and "lip service" should be our step #1 effort.

 

[ScubaDetector]

On a lake in southern Michigan, I was in a roped off swim area at a marina. Our boat was moored right outside the area. Somebody pulled on my dive float. I came up to see a lady on a float. She said I wasn't allowed to be in there and we couldn't anchor our boat where it was. I told her she was wrong on both counts. "A guy on the dock yelled, have you ever heard of riparian rights, I said "yes, and you don't have them." I told the lady I was not hurting anyone and not doing anything wrong. I went back to diving. A while later I hear a bam bam bam under water. I come up to an officer on the dock. He said "You are trespassing" I said no sir I am not. He said well now that you are standing on the bottom you are. I said no sir. This is a public lake with a public boat ramp and a public park. The law in Michigan is if ANY lake has public access, the landowners rights END at the high water mark.

He said, he was in his car researching it while watching me and thinks I am right. I said, sir, I know I am right. I told him my background and experience. He was kind and polite. Not throwing his badge in my face. We had a good talk and he left.

In the over 22 times I have had dealings with officers, only 3 or 4 were negative. Out of those, one turned positive and that was after he threatened to tow my truck and made a few other threats. He was absolutely RUDE at the start. Most have gave me the opportunity to educate them in a very civil manner. One citation I received, they were nice but didn't know the law. (I didn't either that time) I was diving at dusk and my anchor light was not lit on my boat. It doesn't have to be on an inland landlocked lake.

I RESPECT officers that RESPECT me. It is that simple. You come at me with an attitude, if I know am right, you will get one right back. I have never been on the wrong side of a jail cell. I think I would look pretty funny in scuba gear and a wet suit though!

On this island. I have talked to the State Conservation Officers and the State Police Officers weekly. All have been curious as to what I am doing and finding down there. I wave at them all the time when getting ready as they patrol the island constantly. It is a state park now. The Detroit Police and the Wayne County Sheriff have no jurisdiction on the island. They do in the water off it though. However, when you have permission from who you are supposed to have permission from, the sheriff deputy has absolutely NO RIGHT to try and take that permission away.

 

[Tom_in_CA]

Yes, I recall reading your posts on those experiences. Great reading ! Not that I would wish that on anyone, doh! And if it was me, and I was getting gold rings, I'd consider it worth a little hassle now and then too

 

[ScubaDetector]

Yes, I recall reading your posts on those experiences. Great reading ! Not that I would wish that on anyone, doh! And if it was me, and I was getting gold rings, I'd consider it worth a little hassle now and then too

Gold rings?? What are they? I have a secret collection of something else I am finding that I have been very excited about and have been keeping it quiet. If I showed these to everyone, people would be flocking to my secret diving places. You have seen it here first. Please keep it on the low down.

 

[BARKER]

Hi SD; POWER is Mans Greatest Aphrodisiac.!!! Me, I'd already be back in the water. Go for it. If they try to take your Gear again like the flag grab it back or File a Claim for the cost of it & your other incurred expenses like your time, gas, travel etc.. Let them take you to Court. Me, I'd "BEG" them to take me to Court. I'd have a Field Day.!!! Bet on it.!!! How's about Violating Your Civil Rights for starters. Illegal Seizure of your gear for other. I can go on and I would. I'd turn it into a Media Circus for sure. I ain't kidding. They just burn me.
Me, I'm one of the easiest going guys you can meet but I "WILL" defend myself & my Family. I guess it's my PTSD. When I go off I seek to "UTTERLY" destroy them literally. I don't care what I have to do. Who I implicate, how far I have to track them or how long it takes. I "WILL" get my due for sure. I'm strange like that. Anyways, Get back in that water. Let us know how you make out ok. Best Wishes. PEACE:RONB

 

[Deft Tones]

Hi SD; POWER is Mans Greatest Aphrodisiac.!!! Me, I'd already be back in the water. Go for it. If they try to take your Gear again like the flag grab it back or File a Claim for the cost of it & your other incurred expenses like your time, gas, travel etc.. Let them take you to Court. Me, I'd "BEG" them to take me to Court. I'd have a Field Day.!!! Bet on it.!!! How's about Violating Your Civil Rights for starters. Illegal Seizure of your gear for other. I can go on and I would. I'd turn it into a Media Circus for sure. I ain't kidding. They just burn me.
Me, I'm one of the easiest going guys you can meet but I "WILL" defend myself & my Family. I guess it's my PTSD. When I go off I seek to "UTTERLY" destroy them literally. I don't care what I have to do. Who I implicate, how far I have to track them or how long it takes. I "WILL" get my due for sure. I'm strange like that. Anyways, Get back in that water. Let us know how you make out ok. Best Wishes. PEACE:RONB

You should be known as 'Mad Dog' Barker!

 

[BARKER]

Hi Deft Tones; I really am very easy going but when someone crosses the line they WILL know about it. 99.9% of the time I just let it slide but I like everyone else have certain limits. You don't attack me & my Family. I will hurt you "badly". Screw with me and I will come after you with a vengeance. Simple. I like it that way. You always know where you stand with me. I am a Gentleman and believe in being so. I read the Bible everyday and pray every day. I am adamant about going to Church as well. I give to God what is God's and I give to Man what is Man's. Nice. The biggest thing that gets me ticked is what I call "Intentional Ignorance." To me there is no need for it and I will not tolerate it. It is BLATANT Disrespect for me or others. I raised my kid the right way. She says Please, Thank You, Holds the door for people and is usually Polite and Respects her Elders as well. A nice way to be. I expect nothing less of her. I reward her nicely for it.
Certain people today don't have the brains God gave them to breathe with. I will give them a crash course they won't EVER forget. I have no problem with that. That includes rude LEO's. I've never been arrested although I have come close to it before. Other than that my Life runs fairly smoothly. Yes I do have my own problems but that's Life.
I enjoy my Life. I have a great kid. I go detecting and take care of her. I watch my Fights at night and my coffee in the morning. I'm a happy Camper. So please don't mess with it. With that said. May God Bless You All. PEACE:RONB

PS: Hey SD; You sound like me. I'd love to come & talk to you over a nice hot coffee. I sometimes drink it Irish Style but not often. It's called a "Hot Toddy." PEACE:RONB

 

[BARKER]

One thing this will all bring out IF A CITATION EVER comes. Do I have the green light the Harbormaster, the State Police, and the State Conservation officers gave me, OR will the sheriff patrol boat with his threats and demanding demeanor get me a fine in court.[/QUOTE]

HI SD: I think it will not come now unless their bureau is backed up badly. It's been a while. They almost always come in the first week by Saturday. If you go to Court make sure you press the fact that the Officer took your flag ILLEGALLY. That was a clear case of Illegal Search & Seizure.!! Press for the cost of the flag ok. Good Luck. "Nolo Contandre." PEACE:RONB

 

[ecmjamsit]

I bought a gopro camera for when I get to work my mining claim. I film everything, especially if I have a law enforcement encounter. It has a water proof case. You could probably mount a gopro on your dive gear and they would hardly notice it. I have seen enough LEO's committing crimes on Youtube that it made me buy a camera. If it was me, I'd just lie and say I was searching for a distraught wifes wedding ring. Or just claim salvage of a lost outboard motor...you wouldn't want the oil polluting the water!

 

[franklin]

I have searched swimming areas ran by the State Parks. The areas I searched in Virginia, you only get a one day permit and all items found has to be turned in, you don't get to keep anything. If you go back on another day you have to get another one day permit.

I have also searched for wild ginseng on State Parks and State Forest where metal detecting is illegal. I only got a permit for one day and I would have to give them the general area I would be searching. This for obvious reasons in the case of snake bite or you don't show back up because of personal injury or accident.

I can see all the points made with the rant by scuba. I truly feel for him and his loses but what exactly does the law state on time limits? Do you have to get a permit every day? On these permits you usually have to give the location you are going to search so everyone can look out for you or either look for you in the event of an accident. You being a former State Police should not only go by the law but by the letter of the law. The officers checking you out could have been looking out for your own personal safety. I understand your rant but what exactly is the limits of the permit you were issued? Did the permit give you a certain amount of time? I mean a day, days or a week or month or even six months? If it was for only a day then you were not obeying the law as stated. Sorry but I don't want you to think I am hard on you but I too have had to get permits such as yours. I know it is a hassle but I think your interest and your life could be at stake if you do not get a permit each and every day. We had to drive ten miles out of our way each day to get our permit and drive back but it was in their interest and our interest to let the authorities know what we were up to and where we were going to be that particular day.

 

[ScubaDetector]

I have searched swimming areas ran by the State Parks. The areas I searched in Virginia, you only get a one day permit and all items found has to be turned in, you don't get to keep anything. If you go back on another day you have to get another one day permit.

I have also searched for wild ginseng on State Parks and State Forest where metal detecting is illegal. I only got a permit for one day and I would have to give them the general area I would be searching. This for obvious reasons in the case of snake bite or you don't show back up because of personal injury or accident.

I can see all the points made with the rant by scuba. I truly feel for him and his loses but what exactly does the law state on time limits? Do you have to get a permit every day? On these permits you usually have to give the location you are going to search so everyone can look out for you or either look for you in the event of an accident. You being a former State Police should not only go by the law but by the letter of the law. The officers checking you out could have been looking out for your own personal safety. I understand your rant but what exactly is the limits of the permit you were issued? Did the permit give you a certain amount of time? I mean a day, days or a week or month or even six months? If it was for only a day then you were not obeying the law as stated. Sorry but I don't want you to think I am hard on you but I too have had to get permits such as yours. I know it is a hassle but I think your interest and your life could be at stake if you do not get a permit each and every day. We had to drive ten miles out of our way each day to get our permit and drive back but it was in their interest and our interest to let the authorities know what we were up to and where we were going to be that particular day.

No permit required, just permission from the harbormaster which was given. Not for a day, week or month. You have permission, that is all you need. I was always in the same 20' X40 area.
The problem was the sheriff, demanding I get out without finding out if I had permission and not listening to me period.

 

[cudamark]

Hi Deft Tones; I really am very easy going but when someone crosses the line they WILL know about it. 99.9% of the time I just let it slide but I like everyone else have certain limits. You don't attack me & my Family. I will hurt you "badly". Screw with me and I will come after you with a vengeance. Simple. I like it that way. You always know where you stand with me. I am a Gentleman and believe in being so. I read the Bible everyday and pray every day. I am adamant about going to Church as well. I give to God what is God's and I give to Man what is Man's. Nice. The biggest thing that gets me ticked is what I call "Intentional Ignorance." To me there is no need for it and I will not tolerate it. It is BLATANT Disrespect for me or others. I raised my kid the right way. She says Please, Thank You, Holds the door for people and is usually Polite and Respects her Elders as well. A nice way to be. I expect nothing less of her. I reward her nicely for it.
Certain people today don't have the brains God gave them to breathe with. I will give them a crash course they won't EVER forget. I have no problem with that. That includes rude LEO's. I've never been arrested although I have come close to it before. Other than that my Life runs fairly smoothly. Yes I do have my own problems but that's Life.
I enjoy my Life. I have a great kid. I go detecting and take care of her. I watch my Fights at night and my coffee in the morning. I'm a happy Camper. So please don't mess with it. With that said. May God Bless You All. PEACE:RONB

PS: Hey SD; You sound like me. I'd love to come & talk to you over a nice hot coffee. I sometimes drink it Irish Style but not often. It's called a "Hot Toddy." PEACE:RONB

Bureaucrats are simple creatures. They're happy to do their monotonous job day in and day out, deepening their rut until they get their golden ticket to retire. They want to keep their job simple and trouble free until that time comes. You start making serious waves, and they'll just ban diving/detecting/swimming/wading/etc altogether. IMO, it's better to play their game and beat them at it without their knowing they were beat. They stay dumb and happy, you get to continue your adventures in metal detecting.

 

[dirtdigginfool]

Scuba, ddf here, you know I'm behind you 1 million percent, I've been in your position more than once, LEO who polishes his badge with his boner...while we know your story, and what a story it is, I could NOT imagine going through some of the ordeals you've endured. As far as the out of line LEO, we don't know his story...is he having a bad day? He is a cop, but also human, and open to the same BS we have to put up with every day..is his kid strung out on drugs..?is his wife bonking the UPS guy.?.is his ex draining his bank account through child support/alimony...? Scuba, these are the things we dont know, what his state of mind is at that exact moment..yes he was FUMING..but was it all at you? Very well could have been he was already pissed and you were the next guy he saw and was simply pushed over the edge..again, I am NOT saying the LEO was right in his actions, I agree he was WAY out of line. I have scars on my tongue from biting it so damn hard! Scuba, don't ever stop doing what you do, after I get home, or back to the hotel after a 12 or 14 hour day, the first thing I do after a hot shower is logging on here and hoping there is a new post from you, due to my current work schedule, my hunting is VERY limited so I'm feeding off of your hunts...Thx very much..ddf
...

 

[Escape]

If you are ever detained by the police don't say anything. ask for a lawyer or to be released.

 

[Squirrel322]

"The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing"

I don't care if you are right or wrong. Bravo to you for standing up for your rights!

Even if you lose, you are better off being beaten in a fight than beaten without one.

 

[ScubaDetector]

"The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing"

I don't care if you are right or wrong. Bravo to you for standing up for your rights!

Even if you lose, you are better off being beaten in a fight than beaten without one.

I completely AGREE.

UPDATE

TWO citations today in the mail! BOTH CIVIL INFRACTIONS

Citation #1: 38 - 5 - 1 Disorderly conduct. Disobey the order of a police officer Wayne County

Citation #2: 23 - 2 - 2 Swimming underwater diving prohibitions

I really can't wait till my day in court. Will keep all of you posted on this thread. Anyone interested that is.

STRANGE, Here is the law verbatim:

Sec. 38-5-1. - Disorderly conduct.

Any person who shall make or assist in making any noise, disturbance, or improper diversion or any rout or riot, by which the peace and good order of the neighborhood is disturbed, or any person who shall consume alcoholic beverages on any street or sidewalk, or who shall engage in any indecent or obscene conduct in any public place, or who shall engage in an illegal occupation, or who shall loiter in a place of illegal occupation with the intent to engage in such illegal occupation, shall be guilty of a misdemeanor.

Lets see. I don't ever swear, They were on the PA and not coming close enough to talk. Must be the illegal occupation part? Strange the ticket exclusively says Disobey the order of a police officer Wayne County. Also it has guilty of a misdemeanor, although my ticket says Civil Infraction.

And folks, I am not at all sorry for what I did. We don't have to tuck our tails and run every time we are confronted by people that think they have authority over us. I will now be able to tell someone my side of the story who hopefully will listen with an open mind.

Peace all!

 

[Deft Tones]

Here is a Sheriff boat with it's lights on. He gets on his PA and demands I get out of the water. He also threatens me with a 500.00 fine. RIGHT OFF the BAT Doesn't talk to me THREATENS. I motion for him to come over and he won't listen to me. One of them grabs my dive flag and takes it. I GO BACK DOWN. I play around some more and guess what? I really piss him off.

By your own admission you did disobey a lawful order.

I really hope things go well for you in court. Good luck.

 

[ScubaDetector]

By your own admission you did disobey a lawful order.

I really hope things go well for you in court. Good luck.

WRONG:

My own admissions I disobeyed an order. It wasn't lawful because I had permission from the Harbormaster. The very first thing he did was demand I get out of the water. The second was threaten me. He didn't listen to me or verify I had permission.

The law on the first ticket is this:

Sec. 23-2-2. - Swimming and underwater diving; prohibitions.

(a) A person shall not swim, bathe, or engage in underwater diving operations outside of buoyed and designated swim areas, except when authorized by the city police department harbormaster.

(b) This section does not preclude bona fide commercial salvage diving operations, and emergency and recovery operations by any law enforcement agency.



Will keep anybody interested posted. Might be a bumpy ride and might not.