Questions About Florida Laws

[Sprazzles]

Hello, everyone, I have never metal detected, or treasure hunted before, but am super interested in learning more about it. I am from Florida, near the beach which is where I would like to try out some metal detecting eventually, but I am so very confused on the laws regarding what you can and can not do. I saw some other Florida posts on here as well as some on other websites that were helpful, but still did not clear everything up.

From lots of research, I have found out that it is best to avoid the water and stay completely off of and away from the sand dunes and any sea turtle spots. I read that you can not hunt near any spots that have sunken boats or anything like that as well. Also that you must ask permission for any beach, you wish to hunt on and look for any signs saying that you can or can not hunt there. Is all of this true?

It seemed like I was reading many mixed laws about being in the water with a metal detector? Some said you can not even have your feet in the water, others that you can be in the water, but can not disturber anything or recovery anything? I also saw mixed information about low tide and high tide and even how close you can be to the water in the first place. I have read about people that do hunt in the water up to their waist or so. Is that illegal or do they have some special permit that allows them to do that? I have even seen things go so far as to say that if the object is wet or in wet sand to just leave it alone. I would at be interested in hunting in the somewhat wet sand if that is entirely legal to do so?

The question I was most confused about was if I come across an old object in the sand. What am I aloud to do with it? I do not want to be fined or arrested for accidentally finding something old even if it was in a legal area to be detecting. I read some things about not being aloud to disturb anything or take anything that was over 50 years old, but I have coins at my house that are older than that. Even some I have found in parking lots and other places. Does that mean it was technically illegal to pick up those coins from the ground? If I do find something old am I legally required to turn it into the Florida Division of Historical Resources or a museum, and if I do turn it in could I be arrested for picking it up in the first place even with good intentions? I am not particularly interested in going out of my way to find old artifacts, but if I do come across something, even an old coin I would like to know what I can and can not do with it.

As far as anything else that one may find or pick up (jewelry, scrap metals, etc.) is that aloud to be legally sold online or to a scrap yard if one does not wish to keep it?

Thanks so much for all the help in advance I know those were a lot of questions.

 

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[Tom_in_CA]

If, as you say, you've already read other posts on this exact subject , then you have no doubt already read the repeat links and citations and quotes regarding the beaches there. Which, as an aside, comes up over and over and over for FL only. But strangely, no other state gets the same amt. of questions. I'm going to venture that the reason for this is the self-feeding cycle: Whenever a single "scary story" or "law" comes up, then it simply spurs the next person to likewise "ask". They get a few different interpretations and another story, which simply feeds the next person to ask. And so forth till it becomes a vicious self-feeding loop

So since you've already read the other posts, I'll only chime in on a few of your points:

.... . Also that you must ask permission for any beach, you wish to hunt on .....

Someone has apparently posted something to this effect. Yet others do not ask. And instead they already know from written laws/rules, hence "why ask" ? And I have often wondered if the "ask at each kiosk" is simply commentary (as an answer to someone's inquiry 25+ yrs. ago), and not a law itself . Yet someone has posted something that seems to be "in the code". But I still question whether it's more along the lines of "on-site ranger has discretion to such & such" . As in "to administer in the field as he sees fit"

For example: in the citation often quoted that says "ask", yet in the very same breath it even says that any such prohibition "will be posted" (like at the bulletin board at the entrance). Ok then, why can't someone just check for that posting ? But this has been debated before, so I'll just leave it at that

....The question I was most confused about was if I come across an old object in the sand. What am I aloud to do with it? I do not want to be fined or arrested for accidentally finding something old even if it was in a legal area to be detecting. I read some things about not being aloud to disturb anything or take anything that was over 50 years old, .....

Ha, now there's a doozie ! Let's just say someone on here , who routinely hunts FL beaches, and ask at each kiosk they come to, and get's "yes's", etc... But let's push the envelope and wonder: Did they ask that beach personnel about "artifacts over 50 yrs. old?".

In other words, if you or I waltz in to any state of Florida archie, and .... in-view of place where md'ing is not dis-allowed (and yes's were granted by guy & the kiosk), walk in and ask "Hi. Can I please take and remove cultural heritage objects from the beach ?". Guess what the purist archie is going to answer ? Yet notice there is NO SHORTAGE of md'rs plying those beaches. Doh!

The same can be said of State of CA beaches. You can hunt them till you're blue in the face (and ... yes ... gasp, find 51+ yr. old coins). Yet I have no doubt I could find a state level archie to tell me that we're technically not supposed to harm or take "artifacts". Moral of the story ?

 

[Tom_in_CA]

.... As far as anything else that one may find or pick up (jewelry, scrap metals, etc.) is that aloud to be legally sold online or to a scrap yard if one does not wish to keep it?....

You really want something worry yourself silly about Sprazzles? Just look up Florida state lost & found laws. I bet there some verbiage there (left over from the days of wandering cattle laws) that says that civilians must turn in items to police lost & found depts, if they exceed $50 or $100 value.

And such laws make good sense afterall, so no one can take the bike they "found" parked in front of a store, etc.... But let me ask you a question: Take a look at the beach section posts, where md'rs proudly show & tell their latest finds from the beach. Ok, how many of them do you suppose are running down the police dept. each time with each ring ? Moral of the story ?

 

[Treasure_Hunter]

It has been posted on here many times, if you do a search you will find previous threads. It is simple from about on the East coast is the Treasure Coast where a spanish treasure fleet sank in 1715, from approx 3 miles north of Sebastian Inlet to Vero Beach stay out of the water, hunt between mean low tide and toe of the dunes.

All Federal land and National sea shores are off limits period. All state parks are off limits to detecting except those on the coasts. Many state parks on the coast allow detecting on the beaches and in the water only. If there isn't a sign telling yo the policy when when you enter ask the ranger. It is up to each park manager if they will allow you to detect. Ignore anyone who tries to tell you that you don't need to ask if it isn't posted just hunt, they don't live in Fl. do not know our laws and don't have a clue.

The rest of Florida's beaches are pretty much open to detecting with a couple small beach exceptions and they have signs telling you no detecting. All major beaches are open for detecting.. If your hunting a public beach that is not signed no detecting then keep what you find..Cover your holes, remove all trash you find..

Here is a link to the Teasure Coast beaches.. http://www.treasurenet.com/forums/beach-shallow-water/399418-1715-treasure-fleet-gps-cordinates.html

 

[G.I.B.]

And I have often wondered if the "ask at each kiosk" is simply commentary (as an answer to someone's inquiry 25+ yrs. ago), and not a law itself .

What's a kiosk?

I don't believe I've ever seen one of them on a Florida beach, unless you are talking about that wooden box with a dude in it renting beach chairs...

 

[Tom_in_CA]

.... Ignore anyone who tries to tell you that you don't need to ask if it isn't posted just hunt, ...

Strangely, I was just citing the law itself (which someone dutifully posted). Which itself said that such a decision "would be posted". So .... was only going by what the law said

 

[Jon Phillips]

The "over 50 years old" deal applies to man made objects found on state land that includes waterways...it used to be "navigable" waterways, but I think they have since changed the wording.

It doesn't have anything to do with private, county, or city property, although there may be local ordinances on detecting in certain areas.

The Treasure Coast water hunting has to do with salvage rights.

The confusion comes with the fact that there are different laws for different areas. Federal law says man made objects over 100 years old are illegal to remove from federal land, but I believe that there may be a carve out for coins, bullets, and such. As Treasure_Hunter said...National seashores are off limits to detect at all. Some state parks that include coastal beaches allow detecting with permission, or a permit from the park office, but the law still applies about man made objects over 50 years old.

And if you think that just because other people find and keep man made objects over 50 years old that they recover from state land and nothing happened to them...feel free to do a search on "Operation Timucua" and understand that it is the EXACT SAME LAW that was used to ruin those peoples lives.

And...as absurd as it sounds...by the letter of the law...if you pick up a wheat penny from state land, you have just committed a crime...if you remove it, a felony. Would anyone ever arrest and prosecute you? Almost certainly not...but they could.

And, you can own any kind of artifact you want as long as it was obtained legally, and again....none of these laws apply to private, county, or city property.

If you are unsure of who owns the property you want to hunt, just bring it up on the property appraisers website of the county that it is in, and do a map search, click on it, and it will tell you if it is state or federal property.

You maybe could run into a situation where a beach was county property, and the water was state property, and something legal to keep on land would be illegal in the water.

 

[Tom_in_CA]

..... Federal law says man made objects over 100 years old are illegal to remove from federal land, but I believe that there may be a carve out for coins, bullets, and such......

This supposed "exemption" of coins and bullets in ARPA has oft been mis-understood. If you read that passage carefully, in context, it's only talking about coins that are not archeologically covered in the scope of that law. Ie.: coins that are less than the 100 yrs. old. Not "all coins" and "all bullets".

.... Some state parks that include coastal beaches allow detecting with permission, or a permit from the park office, but the law still applies about man made objects over 50 years old....

And probably the vast majority of beaches that FL hunters are hitting legally are state-administered beaches. Ok then, let's take a show of hands: How many of those hunters do you suppose are rushing down to the nearest state archaeologist if they (gasp) found a 1962 memorial penny ? Or a (gasp) mercury dime? etc....

..... And if you think that just because other people find and keep man made objects over 50 years old that they recover from state land and nothing happened to them...feel free to do a search on "Operation Timucua" and understand that it is the EXACT SAME LAW that was used to ruin those peoples lives.....

Jon, I don't doubt that flukes in life exist. I even have a newspaper clipping about a guy who got a ticket for eating a hamburger while driving ! (the officer called it "distracted driving"). And I'm sure if you or I looked long enough, we could probably find stories of a motorist who got roughed up by an over-zealous cop, ticketed, jailed, and fined for nothing but a tail light out. Can it happen ? SURE! But is it norms we should worry about as imminent ? No.

 

[MinerGirl]

Brevard County ends at or just after the Sebastian Bridge. I called the Brevard County Parks Dept. last year to get the laws of beach detecting. A woman who looked up all the codes for me said it was OK to detect the beaches (and parks). I said I would not go into the water line and she told me that there was no problem searching in the water. I did see several people detecting south of Brevard County along the 1715 sites and no one bothered them. They also told me they hadn't found anything. The beaches have been refurbished with well over one foot of sand so any older finds will be quite deep. Check out the detecting club of Sebastian, there are many members who meet on the first Wednesday of every month. They can tell you about any local laws etc. Fun group and guests are welcome...they have a Facebook page that you can research...sorry can't remember the page info. PS..You have to research this on your own...I quit "spoon-feeding" my kids about 20 years ago...Lol MinerGirl

 

[G.I.B.]

And probably the vast majority of beaches that FL hunters are hitting legally are state-administered beaches. Ok then, let's take a show of hands: How many of those hunters do you suppose are rushing down to the nearest state archaeologist if they (gasp) found a 1962 memorial penny ? Or a (gasp) mercury dime? etc....

Completely incorrect.

The vast majority of Florida beaches are private property. The Florida Supreme court ruled that they are open to the public and the private property ends at the dunes, where common use begins.

Florida also does not have that 50 year law. It has to be something of archeological significance. 'Back in the day' we had a 50 year old rule as the definition of artifact, but that was removed quite some time ago.

I can't post the 50 year law which you refer to, because it does not exist any longer.

Please read this citation from the Florida Bar. (now can can properly cite the rules of Florida)

In part states:

• While many beach visitors believe that public sand begins seaward of the dune line or the line where vegetation ends and bare sand starts, regardless of whether the upland property owner is a private individual or public entity, in Florida, the part of the beach falling landward of the mean high water mark is typically owned by the owner of the adjacent lot. The only publicly owned part of the beach is that part falling between the mean high and low water lines: the foreshore region. However, while beachfront property owners in Florida generally have title to the dry sand beach down to the average high tide line, ownership of this property does not necessarily mean that the exclusion-of-others stick is within the bundle of rights attached to this part of the property. Title to any property may be subject to explicit or implied easements, limitations based on traditional right of use, or common law prohibitions of activities considered nuisances.6 Beachfront land is no different: The right to this property is far from absolute.

 

[Treasure_Hunter]

About 95% of Florida beaches from toe of dunes in to water are owned by the public...

 

[Tom_in_CA]

G.I.B.: Sure, land above the dunes line might be private. But for purposes of md'ing (and this thread) we're talking about the sand below the dunes and out to the water's edge. And of that, I'm assuming mostly state run beaches (or federal or whatever). And if you're saying that it's ok to remove archaeologically significant items (ie.: over 50 yrs. old) from said lands, ok then

TH'r & G.I.B. An honest question for you:

Assuming , as you've asserted, that the say-so is needed from each beach you go to. And let's say you frequent one quite often (day after day after day). Then I'm assuming you do not need to go ask each day, day-after-day-after-day. Right ? Because once they've said "yes" the first time, then presumably it applies to the following day too. Right ? So you don't need to keep poking your head back into the office, or calling someone , every single time you go out, since you've already ascertained the information previously . RIGHT ?

And let's say you're bringing a buddy with you, who's visiting from out of state. As you arrive at the beach, I'm assuming it's not necessary for him to call or walk in somewhere to ask, since, of course, he's with you, and you *already* know that that particular beach is "ok" . Right ? I mean, it would be sort of silly for him to go asking, while you are already walking out onto the beach. Doh !

Ok, if all the above is true, then why isn't it possible that this "known" list of "ok" beaches simply be circulated amongst md'rs ? I mean, if it's ok for you to be there, why must the next guy (even if he sees you down there, and knows that you know it's ok), go ask himself ?

In the same way that if you chanced upon a bunch of people in New York's central park's reflecting ponds, all enjoying their RC controlled toy boats on a Sunny Saturday, it would never cross your mind that you "need to check with someone" or "this might be illegal". Because if there's throngs of people enjoying it every Saturday for decades, one just assumes "it's ok". It never crosses his mind that it might not be. So can the FL beaches be the same thing, that I could simply go where those others "who already know" are going ?

 

[Honest Samuel]

I am happy that I do not live in Florida. Good hunting and good luck.

 

[G.I.B.]

St. Pete Beach, where I go a lot- along with 95% of the rest of Florida beaches...

IS A PUBLIC ACCESS BEACH- THERE IS NO ONE TO ASK. JUST GO FORTH AND DETECT. NO KIOSKS, NO RANGERS, NOBODY TO ASK,,,,,,,,,

Do not dig in the dunes, ever, anywhere, at all FOR ANY REASON. The dunes are protected as they protect the shoreline.

When you get to a State Park beach, and you will know you are there because you have to stop and pay $5 to enter, and there is a big state park sign and a state park ranger in a Mr. Ranger suit... just ask him if the beach at this park is okay to detect on.

ON THE EAST COAST OF FLORIDA STAY OUT OF THE WATER AT THE TREASURE LEASE SITES. (locations posted earlier by TH)

What is so freaking hard about this?

 

[Treasure_Hunter]

St. Pete Beach, where I go a lot- along with 95% of the rest of Florida beaches...

IS A PUBLIC ACCESS BEACH- THERE IS NO ONE TO ASK. JUST GO FORTH AND DETECT. NO KIOSKS, NO RANGERS, NOBODY TO ASK,,,,,,,,,

Do not dig in the dunes, ever, anywhere, at all FOR ANY REASON. The dunes are protected as they protect the shoreline.

When you get to a State Park beach, and you will know you are there because you have to stop and pay $5 to enter, and there is a big state park sign and a state park ranger in a Mr. Ranger suit... just ask him if the beach at this park is okay to detect on.

ON THE EAST COAST OF FLORIDA STAY OUT OF THE WATER AT THE TREASURE LEASE SITES. (locations posted earlier by TH)

What is so freaking hard about this?

Ditto, not sure why Tom is wanting to make it so hard, you and I both have explained Florida's laws multiple times, it is really rather simple.

Reminds me of a certain banned member's insistence on illegally hunting private land....




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DT2016

 

[Tom_in_CA]

Ok, so if you paid your $5 one day, asked and got a "yes". Then you return the following day. Do you ask again ? Or do you already know from the previous day's answer that it's "yes" (and presumably hasn't changed over-night ?)

 

[Treasure_Hunter]

Ok, so if you paid your $5 one day, asked and got a "yes". Then you return the following day. Do you ask again ? Or do you already know from the previous day's answer that it's "yes" (and presumably hasn't changed over-night ?)

Tom why are you insisting on making it so hard? If state park doesn't have a sign saying it is ok to detect than you ask on each entry. Again it is up to each park manager and it can change over night. It is really very simple, "Hello, I'm wanting to detect the beach, is it okay?" "Thanks, here is my $5.00".




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DT2016

 

[ARC]

In Florida SOME parks do not allow detecting... at all... anywhere within the park boundaries.
SOME... require a permit issued by the head park ranger.
And other parks have designated areas that only allow within this area.

And some... don't have any regulations on detecting and are open to detect throughout.

The only true way to know a particular parks rules is to ask the head ranger... or A ranger within said park.
IF... You are interested in detecting a particular park in the Tampa Bay Area... I may be of help with this beings I am quite familiar with them here.

 

[ARC]

I will also add... that Florida beaches in general like TH said are open to detect...
They have been pounded by detectorists for eons ... all day everyday.

 

[G.I.B.]

Ok, so if you paid your $5 one day, asked and got a "yes". Then you return the following day. Do you ask again ? Or do you already know from the previous day's answer that it's "yes" (and presumably hasn't changed over-night ?)

Are you planning to come to Florida or is this just a scab you keep picking at that won't stop bleeding?