Anyone remember this story / post ? Bears repeating:

Tom_in_CA

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Years ago, someone posted this lament on a forum:

The neighborhood where he lived, backed up to a small municipal airport. (just little private-planes type affairs.) When that airport had been built back in the 1940s (or whatever) they had snatched up surrounding land, so as to have a right-of-way extending out way beyond the end of the runway. Ie.: at ANY airport runway there is always an extended section , even beyond the edge of the runway, so that in case a plane were to go off the end, or so that there's no noise issues, or whatever.

And so there was ample vacant land well beyond the runways, that was just dirt and scrub-land. Apparently where this was, had previously been a couple of homes (perhaps torn down at the time the airport was built). But a few fruit trees remained.

And in the era before 9/11, there were no fences (at least not at little municipal affairs like this). And residents of this area knew that in summer season, they could go pick fruit at these old trees. That would otherwise just go to waste and fall off the trees. Their backyards backed up to the airport, so they would just waltz on out and pick fruit and the right time of year. This had gone on for years and years.

The fellow telling the story got into metal detecting, and was wondering "where can I go?". He remembered the airport fruit trees, that marked the site of earlier homesteads. And thought that would be a good place to detect. So he went to the airport to "get permission". His request went up and down through various channels, till finally it came back that this would be trespassing, and no one is allowed there. To which he responded: "How can that be? Because the neighbors and I have gone out to pick fruit for years now and it's never been an issue. So how can it be 'trespassing'? ". To which the airport replied "no fruit picking either".

The dejected md'r , resigned to his fate, said 'ok'. and left it at that. Later, during the next fruit ripe-season, when his neighbor buddies got ready to load their basket with ripe fruit, he told them "it's not allowed". To which they looked at him like he was from outer space. Promptly shrugged their shoulders, took the well-worn paths out to the tree, and picked fruit. And, as always, no one cared or said a thing.

In the end, the md'r realized that if he'd simply gone detecting, no one would ever have cared either.

I realize this story might not apply to private property (since the airport was some sort of quasi muni. entity), but .... just thought it made for an interesting story on the basic psyschology of the permission vs. level-of-innocuousness issue pertaining to md'ing.
 

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releventchair

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When I worked at an airport long before 9/ 11 trespassers were definitely not welcomed.
When on property off the clock the control tower was notified so not to have the airport police chasing me down.

That said ...the community trespass being over looked as if they breached the common modern etiquette of asking permission ( and in some states required permission) ..asking an airport for permission to be on their property ,by logic must be expected to result in a negative.

While the odds of being struck by an aircraft are minute ,they do go down sometimes. No respecter' s of runways when mechanical faults say " down" now.
One skidded beyond the border once when I worked there with attendant fatalities.

Giving permission is just going to go against safety controls.
Runway lights used to get stolen too. Imagine the zeal of the police to catch some one ..anyone trespassing after an occurrence.
An I'm just picking apples/ detecting would earn a tough ear.

The " but everyone else trespasses" excuse might work. If not ,it might cost.
 

aa battery

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I to had problems near an airport not only the police ran me out but so did the Air national Guard. I was 10 feet from the fence big no no.:dontknow:
 

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Tom_in_CA

Tom_in_CA

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When I worked at an airport long before 9/ 11 ....

What size of airport ? The gist I got from the fellow's post, was that it was a little town thingy that at best had a tower, and at best had a few small planes come and go each day. If yours was on-the-prowl (ie.: "cared"), then that does not fit the profile of the story being told here. It was one of those things where .... If someone cared to study assessors maps long enough and hard enough, you can split hairs on "which side of the sidewalk" or "which side of the dirt-path" sort of thing.
 

releventchair

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What size of airport ? The gist I got from the fellow's post, was that it was a little town thingy that at best had a tower, and at best had a few small planes come and go each day. If yours was on-the-prowl (ie.: "cared"), then that does not fit the profile of the story being told here. It was one of those things where .... If someone cared to study assessors maps long enough and hard enough, you can split hairs on "which side of the sidewalk" or "which side of the dirt-path" sort of thing.

A big one!

My hometown little one closed the formerly public road near it. I' m not aware as to how that came about but roads do get closed in townships for other reasons too. The airport then installed a fence to keep people ,but more vitally ,deer out.
I have not loitered with field glasses but spotted what seems to be a cross quite aways from the runways.
No public land near it . Might be some detecting potential near the building , but I've been around enough aircraft to not want to be there and be looking up while detecting if there was legal public access. Were anyone to ask ,I'd say I was looking for aircraft wreckage. Of course the first person to ask would work for the FAA probably.
 

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Trespassing is trespassing, if you don't ask permission on private property your trespassing, previously stealing fruit doesn't make it legal...
 

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Wrong answer, you though long, and you though wrong. If people been picking fruit for many years and still do as in this story. Then, people have the right of way. If a farmer gave you permission to travel across his fields, after many years, the farmer cannot stop you. Contact a lawyer. None of these people got arrested for picking fruit or got ban for doing so.
 

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Tom_in_CA

Tom_in_CA

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....previously stealing fruit doesn't make it legal...

"stealing" ? TH'r, did you even read the image given in the story ? The issue wasn't the "fruit". The fruit will fall to the ground and rot . They're un-used trees. The airport didn't care about the concept of the "fruit". Nor did they care that anyone picked it. Nor did they care if anyone walked (or md'd) there. Until, that is, till someone came and make a giant red bullseye of themselves. Then, of course, they needed the "safe" answer.
 

releventchair

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And yes, I acknowledged that the story was public property (of some derivation). And so would not *technically* apply to private property.

Being police car back seats are uncomfortable....how does " ample vacant" land equate to being public land?
Clarification of ownership ( little land is actually vacant/ no taxes or owner on record) needs done in this case.
Yes' there are lands folks tromp on with out knowing who actually owns it.
Depending on trespass law in the state ..risks are still there.
From my deer hunting / property owner rights ,advance with care...
 

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Tom, you can't go on private property with out permission and take anything, why is that so hard for you to grasp.

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Tom_in_CA

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Being police car back seats are uncomfortable....how does " ample vacant" land equate to being public land?
...

releventchair, In this particular case, there was no question that it was public land. So the issue of "vacant" or "ample" is no relevent to the identification issue.

I was only pointing it out to show an "innocuous" aspect, as to whether or not it ever applies (realistically speaking). But I see it's not working. As invariably: The issue will not focus on "innocuous" . Instead the focus people immediately have goes to "stealing" (which was not the issue) or private vs public . Which I hadn't intended as the moral-of-story, but I see now it has become.

Oh well, wrong story for wrong point I guess. Doh !
 

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The story was about some form of public land. Not private land.
Airports are not public property.

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As is their right, no matter how you try to spin it, private property is private property and permission is needed to detect it.

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Tom_in_CA

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Another story on the forums a fellow told once along these lines:

A fellow and his wife retired, and decided to take up RV travel as their new leisure. Like a lot of senior citizens, they would take to the open road, visit all the national parks, see relatives in various states, etc... So they bought an RV , got a KOA membership, and joined a local RV travel enthusiast club.

The guy heard another RV'r give the tip that.... occasionally ... when on the road, you might not be in the vicinity of a KOA or any-type hook-up spot. So the trick is just to pull into any Kmart parking lot for the night, pull out to the far end, and .... park there for the night. Safe, Well lit, etc...

A few days into their first trip, one night as it was getting late. They saw that they weren't in any particular RV park location. They weren't sure where they were going to park for the night, and the man remembered his friend's comment about "Kmart". And as they approached the next town, he could see a Kmart sign off in the distance at the next exit. They pulled into it, and ....... sure enough, could see another RV had already parked in a far off remote corner, with the blinds drawn, and awning pulled out, wheels chalked, etc...

So he thought: "Aha, my friend was right. Perfect. We'll just park here for the night". He parked as they got all situated. Looking at his watch, he could see that the K-mart was going to close at 9pm. So he had 10 min. before closing to go in and pick up a few things. As he finished checkout, and got ready to exit, he saw a store manager standing at the door getting ready to close up. He says to the guy: "Is it ok if we park our RV over night here?". To which the manager says "no". The RV'r then pointed out the door to the other RV off in the distance which was obviously parked for the night and said "but I see them parked ?". To which the manager shrugs his shoulders and says "well,... he didn't ask".

I had to chuckle at that story, because I own a street sweeper business. And we used to do shopping centers all the time. And the ONLY time we might make a comment to a property manager, was if someone was permanently camped out (ie.: RV's un-moved for weeks, litter and blight, etc....). Otherwise it was not unusual to see a car or two, (for whatever reason) even in the middle of the night.
 

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Tom_in_CA

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... permission is needed to detect it....

Correct. And permission is needed to pick that fruit too. Which is why those other neighbors of his are lawless miscreants. No one knew . It never occurred to anyone to have been a problem, and never crossed their mind as anything other than vacant land/tree. But now that the guy asked, then he's duty bound to abide. Ie.: he "knows better" now. But I'm sure the other part of him is left wondering why there was never an issue before, and why his neighbors can just shrug their shoulders at his "new found revelation" and continue to go. Oh well, you're right, it doesn't make it right.
 

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"stealing" ? TH'r, did you even read the image given in the story ? The issue wasn't the "fruit". The fruit will fall to the ground and rot . They're un-used trees. The airport didn't care about the concept of the "fruit". Nor did they care that anyone picked it. Nor did they care if anyone walked (or md'd) there. Until, that is, till someone came and make a giant red bulls eye of themselves. Then, of course, they needed the "safe" answer.
# 8, I agree with Tom, The airport staff have not arrested anybody since the beginning of picking fruit, and they could care less. This story is not about a very large airport in a big city. These pickers save money, and provide fresh fruit to their families, who other wise may not be able to purchase these fruits. . God bless them. I would do the same thing, and also detect when other people are picking. I love free food, The trees and fruit are abandoned property.
 

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Tom_in_CA

Tom_in_CA

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.... The trees and fruit are abandoned property.

Well, I wouldn't go so far as to say that (if you meant that in a legal angle). I would just apply the "does anyone really care? " test of things. Presto, problem solved.
 

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