Native American objects on the surface?

kc7rad

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A few weeks ago went on our beach with my MD to pull out more nails, lures and other things that might cause the neighbor kids to have a really bad day walking on the beach or swimming when the water level comes back up. I was digging up an old beer can when I found a broken piece of pottery on the sandy beach about 1 inch square that may or nay not be of Native American origin.

I started thinking... As a kid we used to run in the fields near here and collect artifacts... but that was 40 some years ago and we were kids.

What is the law regarding artifacts on private property in Illinois and Iowa? What if I find something while incidentally digging a nail out of the sand?

Tnx and happy hunting, all!
-Ken
 

Tom_in_CA

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.... What is the law regarding artifacts on private property in Illinois and Iowa? ....

On PRIVATE property ? You can do whatever the heck you want on private property. You and farmer-Bob can keep or collect or whatever-you-want.

Perhaps in some countries , like England: All resources under the ground belong to the queen. But here in the USA, what's on your land is outside the laws pertaining to public land. If you strike oil on your land, you're rich. If you find a goodie, it's yours. I know of no law in ANY state that says if you find something (even indian related) that it's not anyone's business but your own.
 

cudamark

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Unless you find human remains......
 

Tom_in_CA

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Unless you find human remains......

So if .... while gardening on my own property , someone finds a finger bone . And.... for sake of argument, ... they have no idea of what ethnicity it is. They have some lawful requirement to report it, right ? Got a link to this law (it may exist, I dunno).

Ok, how about the bigger picture, as it pertains to this forum. After all, this is "treasure" net, not "bone" net. So if they found an arrow head, (or some such indian object) on private property: Since that's not a human remain, they can do whatever they want with it. Right ?
 

cudamark

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I would think anyone finding human remains would have an obligation to report it. Might be a crime scene and solve a cold case. That's not to say someone couldn't just ignore it.....I mean, who's going to know? It might also just be a forgotten grave site. If it were on my property, I'd want to know and either rebury the bones or have them transferred them to a more appropriate place based on what the official finding is.
 

Treasure_Hunter

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Protection of Historic Sites

Almost a century ago, Congress passed the first of many laws protecting archaeological sites, both historic and prehistoric, on federal property. Today, similar Illinois state laws apply to all public land and, in specific circumstances, to private land as well. The Illinois Historic Preservation Agency is responsible for theadministration of these laws:

The Archaeological and Paleontological Resources Protection Act.This law became effective on January 1, 1989 and applies to all public lands in Illinois. The law contains criminal sanctions for those who disturb burial mounds, human remains, shipwrecks or other archaeological resources as well as fossils on public lands.

Human Grave Protection Act.Effective August 11, 1989, this law forbids disturbance of human skeletal remains and grave markers in unregistered cemeteries, including isolated graves and burial mounds that are at least 100 years old. Another law protects younger graves and registered cemeteries. It is the intent of this law that “all human burials be accorded equal treatment and respect for human dignity, without reference to ethnic origins, cultural backgrounds or religious affiliations.

The Illinois State Agency Historic Resources Protection Act.Agencies of Illinois government are required to notify the Illinois Historic Preservation Agency of any undertaking that may adversely affect an archaeological property (historic or prehistoric). The Historic Preservation Agency may require survey and testing of resource areas. This law became effective January 1, 1990.

National Historic Preservation Act of 1966, as amended.This Federal statute authorizes the National Register of Historic places, establishes the Advisory Council on Historic Preservation, and, under Section 106, the Council’s powers to review Federal undertakings that affect historic properties.

Protecting Archaeological SitesThe Illinois Department of Natural Resources owns and manages thousands of archaeological sites on land it oversees. The Archaeological and Paleontological Resource Protection Act protects these sites and the artifacts contained within them from looting and vandalism. It is illegal for anyone to either collect or engage in digging into an archaeological site on public lands. Although prohibited by law, the looting of sites on both public and private lands is a serious problem. If you notice illicit digging at an archaeological site or witness someone collecting artifacts on a site at a state park, the Department of Natural Resources asks you to contact either the DNR Cultural Resource Coordinator at (217) 782-3715 or the local park superintendent so measures can be taken to protect the site.

https://www.dnr.illinois.gov/naturalresources/cultural/pages/protection.aspx
 

Tom_in_CA

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.... and, in specific circumstances, to private land as well....

I would think anyone finding human remains would have an obligation to report it. Might be a crime scene and solve a cold case. ....

Good points. Ok, then this would be ALL/ANY human remains. And the ethnicity has no bearing on it.

However, getting back to the OP: He said "objects". And bones was never mentioned. :)
 

sprailroad

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1. Avoid Illinois. 2. Being over the age of 50, do I myself not fall under the "Archaeological Resource Protection Act" ?, (there are times that I feel like a relic) and 3rd, I would think (in the gray area of interpretation) that every cubic square ft. of plant earth would fall under the term "Prehistoric"..........I'm just saying....... Added note; Good job Kc7 removing hazards from the sand, only takes one hook in the foot to ruin a family's day.
 

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Chiltepin

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On PRIVATE property ? You can do whatever the heck you want on private property. You and farmer-Bob can keep or collect or whatever-you-want.

Perhaps in some countries , like England: All resources under the ground belong to the queen. But here in the USA, what's on your land is outside the laws pertaining to public land. If you strike oil on your land, you're rich. If you find a goodie, it's yours. I know of no law in ANY state that says if you find something (even indian related) that it's not anyone's business but your own.


You've never bought a house in Wyoming. You might own the house but sub surface might belong to someone else and you can
purchase that seperately. Good luck if there are Uranium deposits under said house.:laughing7:
 

RGINN

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Good point there, Chiltepin. In Oklahoma, you may buy the land, but the mineral rights are sold separately. They can put a rig up and drill right under your property, as somebody else may own the mineral rights and leased them to the oil company, and you can't do jack about it.
 

okbasspro

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Good point there, Chiltepin. In Oklahoma, you may buy the land, but the mineral rights are sold separately. They can put a rig up and drill right under your property, as somebody else may own the mineral rights and leased them to the oil company, and you can't do jack about it.

And that is why I own all the mineral rights to my property I also got the land grant signed by the president in 1842
 

sprailroad

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Wyoming and Oklahoma too? You can most likely add Oregon as well, we also have some form of government, strange, it's all very strange.
 

Tom_in_CA

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.... in Wyoming. You might own the house but sub surface might belong to someone else ...


..... In Oklahoma, you may buy the land, but the mineral rights are sold separately. ....

"Mineral rights" ? "sub-surface" ? Does this extend to A) indian artifacts (which was the whole point of this thread), or B) coins/relics/artifacts ?

Put it this way: Let's say you buy a house in Wyoming or Oklahoma. You go out in your yard, and find an 1880 $20 gold piece. Is it yours ? Or are you under an obligation to run around seeking archies and lawyers blessings before you can keep it ? How about if an indian descent person was the one that lost it in 1880 ?

This is getting ridiculous. And it's the mere postings/musings of junk like this , that simply fuels the VERY WORRIES amongst the skittish. They read this stuff , and promptly assume "everyone hates us" and "I can't keep anything I find , even in my own or private property", and "laws are everywhere seeking to crash down on us". And sure enough, someone else comes along to cite something dire (like the quotes above) to further perpetuate the notion that we are somehow imminently going to get busted for our hobby.

Yet , oddly .... you have to look LONG AND HARD to find any news accounts of someone EVER getting more than a "scram". And the show & tell finds forums are RIDDLED with old coins (and I presume indian stuff too), that were ... gasp ... found on public or private land.

I'm as brazen and ballsy as they come. I hunt everywhere and anywhere I come to . If I roll into a town, I simply whip out the detector and hit any park or beach or forest I come to (unless there were some sign to the contrary, or unless it were an *obvious* historic monument). Yet, despite over 40 yrs. of this attitude, I have NEVER received more than an occasional scram.
 

Nitric

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I would imagine if you look hard enough there is some law that has it covered. But I was told in WV one time ....If it's on the surface? It's yours if you have to dig? It belongs to the state. They were referring to State or fed property. Then...I was told...It would have to come down to proof, someone asking, you telling the wrong person that wanted to pursue the issue, etc....

On Private property? It's yours as long as you have permission from the land owner. I'm sure there is some law somewhere that covers that too...But no one is out looking to bust a guy that found an arrowhead in a field. Or At least I hope not!

I tried to look up the laws in AL. at one time on arrowheads and Indian artifacts.....If I understood it right....If you even find it on your own land it's yours, but you can't remove it from the state. I never dug into that to find out the reasoning or if it was even truth. I found arrow heads on my land in AL. and took them to Ohio! Ok...I'll report back if guys in suits and sunglasses show up at my door asking questions, now that I admitted it!

As kids we walked miles of fields looking for arrowheads after they plowed and a rain.

And like Tom, I detected anywhere when i started. I was told to leave 2 places, one was a state park, the other was an abandoned property, It was an old boys home that was owned privately. Ohhh and another place where I thought I had permission and didn't, since I asked the guy mowing. I always get permission now. But I've never had any real problems detecting.

The Human Remain thing? Nope....I dig up a finger? I'm looking around to see if anyone saw, and I'm putting it back. Move the garden some place else, and maybe need a few more trucks of fill there......Don't need that headache...Nope, no time for that!!:laughing7: JKG!!!! That would all depend on some things.
 

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Tom_in_CA

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..... But I was told in WV one time ....If it's on the surface? It's yours if you have to dig? It belongs to the state. They were referring to State or fed property. ...

haha. And let me guess: There state & federal Navy Seal commando archies, that lurk behind every tree. Right ? To decide the difference and enforce the "on top visible" versus "had to kick the duff" versus "had to dig it up".

Kind of reminds me of some city that had dreamed up "permits" for detecting in their parks. The permit came with a list of rules to follow. Once of which "no digging deeper than 4 inches" (or some such measurement like that). And I had to chuckle thinking "Sheesk, does anyone follow you around with a ruler , measuring the depths of your holes ??" So too, in cases like what you cite, where the mere act of detecting isn't illegal, then .... for pete's sake, is anyone really splitting hairs watching you as to whether you dug (verses prodded with a screwdriver, versus kicked the duff, blah blah blah).

I have no doubt, that if I walked into city hall here tomorrow, and asked if I could : Stand at Main St. and 4th Ave. tomorrow. And wear a costume made of tree bark, and smear peanut butter and bird-seed on my head. Someone would be sure to tell me I need a parade permit, an advertising variance, and the coastal commission's approval. Contrast to if I just went and did it, I'd be totally ignored. Moral of the story ? Sometimes md'rs ask too many silly questions of bored bureaucrat pencil pushers and purist archies.
 

Nitric

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haha. And let me guess: There state & federal Navy Seal commando archies, that lurk behind every tree. Right ? To decide the difference and enforce the "on top visible" versus "had to kick the duff" versus "had to dig it up".

Kind of reminds me of some city that had dreamed up "permits" for detecting in their parks. The permit came with a list of rules to follow. Once of which "no digging deeper than 4 inches" (or some such measurement like that). And I had to chuckle thinking "Sheesk, does anyone follow you around with a ruler , measuring the depths of your holes ??" So too, in cases like what you cite, where the mere act of detecting isn't illegal, then .... for pete's sake, is anyone really splitting hairs watching you as to whether you dug (verses prodded with a screwdriver, versus kicked the duff, blah blah blah).

I have no doubt, that if I walked into city hall here tomorrow, and asked if I could : Stand at Main St. and 4th Ave. tomorrow. And wear a costume made of tree bark, and smear peanut butter and bird-seed on my head. Someone would be sure to tell me I need a parade permit, an advertising variance, and the coastal commission's approval. Contrast to if I just went and did it, I'd be totally ignored. Moral of the story ? Sometimes md'rs ask too many silly questions of bored bureaucrat pencil pushers and purist archies.

I agree on that most times.....

I don't remember his exact words...this was years ago. It was a park ranger that told us that. And I do remember he was kind of eluding to what you said above. Someone has to complain, you have to be "advertising" ....., The it's not fair people etc......Type stuff before the issue was even pushed. Basically he could care less, but couldn't actually tell you that, is what I got from it.:laughing7: He had to quote some kind of rule since you asked. Then if it did come up....It came to splitting hairs and proving it either way. Like...."First someone has to complain...then we have to see you actually dig." Or you can't go around telling people you moved any soil. Surface find only!

And the exact situation was....They had a site where they said a Civil war camp or maybe even a small battle or something. But the actual location wasn't where they had stuff set up at. It was on the other side of a waterway. I guess not many people knew and just assumed it was where the buildings,plaques, and museum type thing was. So....We asked if we could look in the area where it actually was. That's when we got the answer above, and somehow in the conversation arrow heads came up. For some reason I think it was state owned, I may be wrong on that. It's been a while. I really think he was saying all of that so if we were asked we would say..."Ya, we found it right on top of the ground." Even though he didn't say that. Just my reading between the lines at the time.:laughing7:

I agree with you on most of this kind of stuff with the exception of some "permissions". Most people could care less, until you ask questions, bring attention to yourself,start "advertising'.... etc....Do those things to a certain level and you will get shut down even if legal. or it will fall into a "gray area" and the only way to pursue is a ton of time and money and at that point most just give up.

I've told you this before...We asked a ranger at a "historical" Park with some very old buildings...Bigger place. He said.."Go ahead and detect, if someone complains I'll have to come make you stop, my shift ends at 5." We didn't know the guy, Just started talking to a Ranger and it went from there.... sure it was probably against rules.... But we did it. and the Ranger was fine with it. So......Sometimes even permissions are good! Now, we didn't find anything and we also didn't get carried away, we kind of used our own common sense when people were around..Not just "the ranger said ok, so act like an idiot". And stayed out of main sight, also staying out of the front yard where the people are walking in to look, .......probably where the "good stuff" was!! Our main goal was to get as much area with out a complaint or question.:laughing7:
 

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oregonoutback

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Here in Oregon, I look for artifacts on private property, I never dig for them but I have found artifacts and I keep what I find. On State lands (public land) there was a huge deal a few years ago because a friend of mine found a spear point almost 12 inches long. A buddy of his posted it online and then all hell broke loose. State lands got involved, native americans got involved along with the state police. They shut down a lake that is on public lands and you didn't dare go looking for any artifacts. they confiscated his artifact which he eventually got back about a year later. Even if you were out on the lake bed, they would make contact with you and harass you about being out there. If anything over I believe 50 years old is found you are not supposed to keep it because of antiquity law. Pretty much anything you find in the desert is over 50 years old.

It boiled down to if you find something, keep it quiet and don't go showing your finds. It turned honest people into outlaws. I know because I'm not about to stop looking for artifacts. I'm not hurting the environment, I'm preserving the artifacts. Cattle ruin more artifacts than anything. Who is honestly going to see a nice arrowhead laying on the ground and maybe take a picture of it and leave it lay? I know I'm not one of those people. These laws are ridiculous! It forces a person to lie to law enforcement officers. I can understand digging or cave dwelling being illegal. Also anything with human remains is taboo to all the hunters I know around here. I have heard of people finding remains out hunting and they reburied them. Once state or Native Americans hear about remains, they shut the entire area down where you cant go out and even be on the lands at all. Its no wonder that people keep their mouths shut if they find remains.
 

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