Tom_in_CA
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- Mar 23, 2007
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- Explorer II, Compass 77b, Tesoro shadow X2
There was a post on another forum, where a newbie fellow was talking to a long time hobbyist in his area. The long-timer told the newbie that you can't hunt along a certain river. Or else "you'll get chased out". The newbie took the admonition to heart. But then became curious that... well, if you couldn't hunt the beaches along the river, then.... how about way-back from the banks ? Up on dry land ? Or in the fields way-back from water's edge? Does that count as "along the river" ?
My approach was not to tackle the actual river-in-question. Or try to figure out that it's 10 ft. or 50 ft. or 100 yards, etc... But instead : I questioned the very premise. Ie.: did he ask the person, who made the claim "Says who?" or "where is that written?" Perhaps it's true. Perhaps it's not. He said his friend was very reputable.
But on the other hand, consider the following true story from my own MD'ing evolution of "reputable persons" :
I got into md'ing in about 1975, during 8th grade or so. The school chum who got me into it, had older brothers (12 to 17-ish yrs. older than him), who had been into the hobby since the mid 1960s. (probably among the first that anyone knows of around here, ordered out of the back of a True West magazine classified ad
)
One day, about 1974 or 75-ish, my friend's dad was driving several of us kids out to go fishing at a certain lake near Watsonville, CA. About 30 min. from where we lived. And as we passed through that town, my friend pointed out the window at a school yard and said: "You can't detect at any school or park in this city". And "you'll get a ticket", blah blah. I was just a dumb kid at the time. He was from the long-time detecting family, so .... naturally ... who was I to question that ? Nor could either of us drive then, to reach this city, so it was a moot point, haha.
Fast forward, 4 or 5 yr. later, to my senior year in high school . There was a club in our city by this time. And I was starting to make friends with other hobbyists in our area. 2 of the older guys I hunted with, were coming into the club meeting's show & tell each month with choice early mercs, barbers, IH's, V's, etc.... I badgered and pestered them to take me with them to their secret park . Finally they agreed to reveal the park and take me along. It turned out to be a park in Watsonville. I asked my friends "Is it ok to detect there ?" To which they shrugged their shoulders and said "why wouldn't it be ?" And I told them that I'd heard it was illegal. All they said was "no one's ever said anything to us". So ... I went along.
The first time or two there with my friends, I kind of had one eye over my shoulder. Because I could distinctly recall the "off-limits" claim I'd heard years earlier. But after a few times, forgot all about it. And even branched out into doing other parks and schools in that town. Never a problem.
A few years later, mid 1980s, I was md'ing with my original Jr. High school chum. We're both now into our mid 20's. And I reminded him of what he'd said, as kids, in that off-hand comment. He didn't remember even saying it. So with some coaxing and refreshing, he eventually recalled that. And I asked "where'd you get that info ?". He told me his older brother had told him. To which I asked "Where did your older brother hear that?". But he didn't know. So ... the matter was dropped.
Fast forward to the late 1980s and early 1990s. By this time I was detecting a lot with his older brother. One day, on an hour long drive to do some stage stop hunting, I remembered the "Watsonville thing". And asked : "hey, your youngest brother tells me that you told him Watsonville was off-limits. Where did you get that info ?" At first, he couldn't even remember saying that . But ... after some refreshing finally remembered. He said he got that info from his other brother (there were 3 brothers total). To which I asked "Where did HE get that information?"
The best he could recall, was that the 3rd brother, way back when he first started (probably swinging a BFO), had gone to a school in Watsonville to ply his luck. An after school janitor saw him , and came out to boot him. Telling him: "that's not allowed". So the md'r, not-one-to-argue with authority, apologized and shut down the machine. But before he left, he asked the janitor: "How about the school down the street?". The janitor said "Not there either". So the dejected md'r said "How about the park downtown?"
At this point, the janitor was starting to get annoyed with the questions. So he just told the guy: "Not at any park or school in the entire town". The dejected md'r hung his head low in apology and left.
He promptly put the word out to his other brother. Who, in turn, eventually put the word to their youngest brother (my school chum). Who, in turn, put the word out to me. And I, in turn, no doubt put the word out to others. See how this networking of info-spreading works among hobbyists ? And when you trace it back, it's all probably nothing more than a janitor who was having a bad hair day.
But in the meantime, no one's ever asking "says who?" or "where is that written?" No one considers that it could be an isolated fluke. Or a single individual you can simply avoid in the future. Because I guess it's human nature to believe bad news w/o question. No one wants to "get arrested" after all.
That funny evolution story made me wonder if that's not the very same phenomenon that happens to a lot of the places we hear about that are supposedly off-limits. For example: Someone comes onto a thread asking about a certain locale. Someone else answers "No it's not allowed". And when you press them for their source: It sometimes turns out it's just "something they heard". Or they heard of someone else's scram. Or perhaps they called & asked, and got a whimsical arbitrary safe answer of "no" ? And once it's fed into the rumor mill, you can never put it to rest .
And these things just make it into compendium lists that md'rs assemble. Or you google it, it leads to a post, and you read a "no". Because links have led to links which have led to links.
Anyhow, this fellows river post, where he "heard that it's not allowed", made me think about this case example
My approach was not to tackle the actual river-in-question. Or try to figure out that it's 10 ft. or 50 ft. or 100 yards, etc... But instead : I questioned the very premise. Ie.: did he ask the person, who made the claim "Says who?" or "where is that written?" Perhaps it's true. Perhaps it's not. He said his friend was very reputable.
But on the other hand, consider the following true story from my own MD'ing evolution of "reputable persons" :
I got into md'ing in about 1975, during 8th grade or so. The school chum who got me into it, had older brothers (12 to 17-ish yrs. older than him), who had been into the hobby since the mid 1960s. (probably among the first that anyone knows of around here, ordered out of the back of a True West magazine classified ad
)One day, about 1974 or 75-ish, my friend's dad was driving several of us kids out to go fishing at a certain lake near Watsonville, CA. About 30 min. from where we lived. And as we passed through that town, my friend pointed out the window at a school yard and said: "You can't detect at any school or park in this city". And "you'll get a ticket", blah blah. I was just a dumb kid at the time. He was from the long-time detecting family, so .... naturally ... who was I to question that ? Nor could either of us drive then, to reach this city, so it was a moot point, haha.
Fast forward, 4 or 5 yr. later, to my senior year in high school . There was a club in our city by this time. And I was starting to make friends with other hobbyists in our area. 2 of the older guys I hunted with, were coming into the club meeting's show & tell each month with choice early mercs, barbers, IH's, V's, etc.... I badgered and pestered them to take me with them to their secret park . Finally they agreed to reveal the park and take me along. It turned out to be a park in Watsonville. I asked my friends "Is it ok to detect there ?" To which they shrugged their shoulders and said "why wouldn't it be ?" And I told them that I'd heard it was illegal. All they said was "no one's ever said anything to us". So ... I went along.
The first time or two there with my friends, I kind of had one eye over my shoulder. Because I could distinctly recall the "off-limits" claim I'd heard years earlier. But after a few times, forgot all about it. And even branched out into doing other parks and schools in that town. Never a problem.
A few years later, mid 1980s, I was md'ing with my original Jr. High school chum. We're both now into our mid 20's. And I reminded him of what he'd said, as kids, in that off-hand comment. He didn't remember even saying it. So with some coaxing and refreshing, he eventually recalled that. And I asked "where'd you get that info ?". He told me his older brother had told him. To which I asked "Where did your older brother hear that?". But he didn't know. So ... the matter was dropped.
Fast forward to the late 1980s and early 1990s. By this time I was detecting a lot with his older brother. One day, on an hour long drive to do some stage stop hunting, I remembered the "Watsonville thing". And asked : "hey, your youngest brother tells me that you told him Watsonville was off-limits. Where did you get that info ?" At first, he couldn't even remember saying that . But ... after some refreshing finally remembered. He said he got that info from his other brother (there were 3 brothers total). To which I asked "Where did HE get that information?"
The best he could recall, was that the 3rd brother, way back when he first started (probably swinging a BFO), had gone to a school in Watsonville to ply his luck. An after school janitor saw him , and came out to boot him. Telling him: "that's not allowed". So the md'r, not-one-to-argue with authority, apologized and shut down the machine. But before he left, he asked the janitor: "How about the school down the street?". The janitor said "Not there either". So the dejected md'r said "How about the park downtown?"
At this point, the janitor was starting to get annoyed with the questions. So he just told the guy: "Not at any park or school in the entire town". The dejected md'r hung his head low in apology and left.
He promptly put the word out to his other brother. Who, in turn, eventually put the word to their youngest brother (my school chum). Who, in turn, put the word out to me. And I, in turn, no doubt put the word out to others. See how this networking of info-spreading works among hobbyists ? And when you trace it back, it's all probably nothing more than a janitor who was having a bad hair day.
But in the meantime, no one's ever asking "says who?" or "where is that written?" No one considers that it could be an isolated fluke. Or a single individual you can simply avoid in the future. Because I guess it's human nature to believe bad news w/o question. No one wants to "get arrested" after all.
That funny evolution story made me wonder if that's not the very same phenomenon that happens to a lot of the places we hear about that are supposedly off-limits. For example: Someone comes onto a thread asking about a certain locale. Someone else answers "No it's not allowed". And when you press them for their source: It sometimes turns out it's just "something they heard". Or they heard of someone else's scram. Or perhaps they called & asked, and got a whimsical arbitrary safe answer of "no" ? And once it's fed into the rumor mill, you can never put it to rest .
And these things just make it into compendium lists that md'rs assemble. Or you google it, it leads to a post, and you read a "no". Because links have led to links which have led to links.
Anyhow, this fellows river post, where he "heard that it's not allowed", made me think about this case example
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). You might also show all the dangerous crap you've recovered. If it's a park/school worker or L.E.O, bow and scrape, leave, and return at a different day/time to try your luck again.
