Metal Detecting Banned Wisconsin DNR Regulated Lands/Waterways

[Tiredman]

This has been in effect since 2012:
Kenny W Briggs‎

to

American Digger Magazine
November 26, 2012 · Chippewa Falls, WI

Response back from the State of Wisconsin Archaeologist.

by Three Seasons Treasure Hunters LLC on Thursday, April 12, 2012 at 9:44pm ·
.

Subjectmetal detector use - your recent inquirySenderDudzik, Mark J - DNR [email protected] DateFri 07:38To protect your privacy, remote images are blocked in this message. Display images Always show images from [email protected]. Briggs - I have included for your information (below) a recent response written on behalf of Secretary Stepp regarding this matter. I hope that you find the information useful. M
Mark J. Dudzik Departmental Archaeologist
Wisconsin Department of Natural Resources Bureau of Facilities & Lands 101 South Webster, LF/6 Madison, WI 53707-7921
phone: 608.266.3462; fax: 608.267.2750 e-mail: [email protected] website: http://dnr.wi.gov facebook: www.facebook.com/widnr
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
Thank you for writing to DNR Secretary Cathy Stepp about metal detector use on and in DNR lands and waters. I
appreciate the opportunity to respond on behalf of Cathy.

As you know, Wisconsin has an especially rich historic and archaeological heritage. Archaeological resources are
non-renewable and are held in public trust for all Wisconsin citizens. Our state has both recorded and unrecorded
archaeological sites, which may be located in or near beach areas on lakes and streams. The DNR is one of the
state and federal agencies that helps identify, protect, and manage these resources.

I understand your concern that while you previously used metal detectors in state parks, you have been told in the
past few years that metal detector use isn't allowed. We've had a policy limiting metal detector use on public land
for many decades, although in the past this policy was not well-understood and was inconsistently enforced.
In 2009, the Wisconsin Historical Society raised concerns that the DNR metal detector policy did not adequately
protect potential archaeological sites. We revised our metal detector policy so it complied with state law and
federal mandates. The revised policy gave improved protection to the many recorded and unrecorded
archaeological resources, including sacred Native American burial grounds, which are located on DNR properties.
I appreciate that you wish to continue using metal detectors, and I would encourage you to pursue opportunities
for metal detector prospecting on Wisconsin's privately-held lands and waters - areas where metal detector use is
not constrained by state, federal, or other laws or rules.

If you have questions or would like more information, please feel free to call our department archaeologist, Mark
Dudzik at 608.266.3462 or email him at [email protected]. Again, thank you for your interest in this
matter.

 

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[Tiredman]

Awhile back there was some expert and not so expert option's posted about metal detecting waterways, beaches and other DNR regulated areas of Wisconsin. I was hoping my friend would find the letter that set in stone the restrictions that have been emplaced for the last 6 plus years. Hopefully this will prevent others from getting in a jam with laws which are not on the official web site of the Wisconsin DNR.

 

[Tom_in_CA]

.... I was hoping my friend would find the letter that set in stone the restrictions that have been emplaced .....

That won't be hard. Just keep asking long enough and hard enough, high-enough up the chain. Be sure to use words like "dig" and "take" and "cultural heritage" and "indian bone". And then ...... sure : You will be sure to get the answer to your "pressing question".

 

[Tiredman]

That won't be hard. Just keep asking long enough and hard enough, high-enough up the chain. Be sure to use words like "dig" and "take" and "cultural heritage" and "indian bone". And then ...... sure : You will be sure to get the answer to your "pressing question".

I posted the letter simply because of folks such as yourself Tom. Your advice could lead another to having a ban put in place in another section of the country. This law came to be due to 2 people metal detecting and digging copper age artifacts and listing them on ebay. The listing was spotted and the rest was history.

 

[Tom_in_CA]

....Your advice could lead another to having a ban put in place... .

What advice ? My advice that people can look up laws for themselves ? How does that "bring about bans" ? If there's a ban (such as your letter), they would find it, and are welcome to abide by it. So how is my advice "leading to bans" ?

.... This law came to be due to 2 people metal detecting and digging copper age artifacts and listing them on ebay. The listing was spotted and the rest was history.

As I said on the other thread: I have a sneaking suspicion that there's more to this story. "Copper age artifacts" are bought and sold all the time, between collectors. Just as other relics, coins, buttons, arrowheads, etc... are bought and sold all the time @ Ebay, etc....

Thus whatever story you're alluding to, must have more going on. Ie.: someone in the ebay ad saying where it was dug ? AND EVEN THEN, I highly doubt archies troll ebay, watching for ads where provenance is listed. I would very much like to see the original ad's text.

And if it was found in an illegal area, then .... that simply meant that a law was ALREADY in place. Hence how has the "ad" led to "laws", if they were already in existence ? And if the location was NOT against the law, then .... how has the Ebay ad LED to a law? If that were the true evolution, then I got news for you: An even FASTER way to "bring about laws" (even faster than an ebay ad) is to go asking those very archies , that you say spotted the ad.

I don't doubt the archie letter, and its enforceability. All I'm saying is: Ask yourself how these things ever evolved, in the first place. And no, it wasn't by virtue of md'rs not picking up the phone, calling around, and asking "Can I detect ?"

 

[smokeythecat]

"The rest was history", well I don't know anything about that history.

 

[Clay Diggins]

I think people may want to read the actual government history on this subject before making any decisions about the story being told here.

It seems the archie who put out this notice in 2012 actually came up with this "detecting is banned" theory while fighting with a couple of State Senators over their efforts to have his department reigned in by a specific law making it clear to his department that detecting DNR managed property is legal without a permit.

This whole thing is about administrative employees battling elected representatives. Nothing whatsoever about artifacts being sold on eBay. This whole thing took place in 2009 - long before the 2012 letter.

Here is the official government website link to the PDF that documents the whole affair.

Maybe the good folks of Wisconsin who do still detect could revive this legislative effort to put the DNR archie in his place?

 

[Tiredman]

Well think what you wish. In time this will happen elsewhere.

 

[Tiredman]

I think people may want to read the actual government history on this subject before making any decisions about the story being told here.

It seems the archie who put out this notice in 2012 actually came up with this "detecting is banned" theory while fighting with a couple of State Senators over their efforts to have his department reigned in by a specific law making it clear to his department that detecting DNR managed property is legal without a permit.

This whole thing is about administrative employees battling elected representatives. Nothing whatsoever about artifacts being sold on eBay. This whole thing took place in 2009 - long before the 2012 letter.

Here is the official government website link to the PDF that documents the whole affair.

Maybe the good folks of Wisconsin who do still detect could revive this legislative effort to put the DNR archie in his place?

Your document is 3 years too old, it changed since 2009, compare the names and dates mentioned. But I have read yours, they were very close then to what I claim it is now.

 

[Tom_in_CA]

... In time this will happen elsewhere.

And I know just the trick to speed this up. Care to take a guess ?

 

[Tiredman]

And I know just the trick to speed this up. Care to take a guess ?

I could check with several states and see what they have on the books, even send the Wisconsin regulations so they know what I mean.

 

[Tom_in_CA]

I could check with several states and see what they have on the books, even send the Wisconsin regulations so they know what I mean.

When you say "... check with several states...", do you mean: Look up laws/rules for yourself ? Or do you mean to: Inquire there @ the "powers-that-be" and ask "Hi. What laws/rules do you have regarding md'ing @ your state parks ?"

If you meant the LATTER, then ... why would you send them the "Wisconsin regulations", so that they "know what you mean" ? That seems like the FASTEST way to "swat hornet's nests". And the fastest way to get a rule/law proposed (or a "policy" implemented/interpreted) to "address this pressing issue".

I assume you're joking, right ?

 

[MidMoTreasure]

The letter posted by Tiredman only reflects what is actually codified in Wisconsin law.

https://docs.legis.wisconsin.gov/code/admin_code/nr/001/45/04/3/i

This is black-letter law, not the opinion of some park ranger or archaeologist.

 

[3cylbill]

Won't be long before everybody here will be a criminal ,freedom in America belongs to the illegal aliens ...

 

[Clay Diggins]

The letter posted by Tiredman only reflects what is actually codified in Wisconsin law.

https://docs.legis.wisconsin.gov/code/admin_code/nr/001/45/04/3/i

This is black-letter law, not the opinion of some park ranger or archaeologist.

That's not a law MidMo. It's clearly marked an administrative rule issued from the executive department (Governors office). That rule was never voted on by the legislature.

Find a law passed by the Wisconsin legislature that prohibits metal detecting. (hint: there are two and they are location specific.)

The point is that this rule could be changed, eliminated or enforced by the DNR without any input from the legislature. Not a law.

 

[Davers]

I posted the letter simply because of folks such as yourself Tom. Your advice could lead another to having a ban put in place in another section of the country. This law came to be due to 2 people metal detecting and digging copper age artifacts and listing them on ebay. The listing was spotted and the rest was history.

Was there clear "Proof" the Ebay items were dug on DNR land or Waters. Or did the Law Makers just take the posters word for it & Adjust the Law ?

Digging mounds & detecting in the woods are 2 different things.

Guess I will not have to be moving to China after all. I do love their Gov't Control. LOL

 

[MidMoTreasure]

That's not a law MidMo. It's clearly marked an administrative rule issued from the executive department (Governors office). That rule was never voted on by the legislature.

Find a law passed by the Wisconsin legislature that prohibits metal detecting. (hint: there are two and they are location specific.)

The point is that this rule could be changed, eliminated or enforced by the DNR without any input from the legislature. Not a law.

That is incorrect. Administrative rules and regulations have the force and effect of law. The authority of administrative bodies to make rules is expressly granted by state/federal legislatures. This is known as an enabling act. Administrative rules are black letter law.

 

[Tom_in_CA]

The letter posted by Tiredman only reflects what is actually codified in Wisconsin law.

https://docs.legis.wisconsin.gov/code/admin_code/nr/001/45/04/3/i

This is black-letter law, not the opinion of some park ranger or archaeologist.

I will not comment on what Clay-diggin's is saying . But I will say this :

1) How do you think that such items make it to wonderful lists like that, in the first place ? Hint: It's d/t md'rs making themselves a giant bullseye and going and asking questions like "Hi, can I metal detect ?"

2) To the to the extent that ... yes ... sometimes "dire sounding things" appear on boiler plate dusty minutia such as that: You'd be surprised at how often they are simply unknown by rank & file (or .... no one cares or enforces). We had a situation here in CA, for instance, where ... supposedly (if you dug deep enough and worried long enough) that a certain place was off-limits. But a newbie, who simply didn't know any better, went detecting at this beach for a few years. No one ever said "boo" to him. Despite that he went in broad daylight, right in front of manned lifeguard towers, right while passing rangers just gave him a friendly wave, etc...

Now ... I grant you, that was at an innocuous beach. And I grant you, no one should "throw caution to the wind" and hunt @ obvious historic sensitive monuments. But just sayin', that .... sometimes .... when you're in the middle of nowhwere ....... it's possible to over-think things.

 

[Tom_in_CA]

Was there clear "Proof" the Ebay items were dug on DNR land or Waters. ....

And I still think there's got to be more to this story. I highly doubt that "law makers" and "archies" cruise ebay, studying every coin-for-sale, and every "copper culture" object, to see if the seller happen-chance listed "... FOUND at such & such location"

There's got to be more to that story.

 

[MidMoTreasure]

1) How do you think that such items make it to wonderful lists like that, in the first place ? Hint: It's d/t md'rs making themselves a giant bullseye and going and asking questions like "Hi, can I metal detect ?"

Again, I have not been able to replicate what you are saying in any real-world scenario here in Missouri. Every municipal official I have spoken with in my state has been friendly, accommodating, and helpful. One supervisor in a SE MO town even called a guy to unlock a gate for me. Granted, however, I do not ask or detect in any town or county that has an ordinance that prohibits metal detecting or digging.

The only negative reaction I received was from a citizen who lived next to a park. She saw me detecting and got irate. I remained respectful, but she was shouting how she was going to the city council and have them ban detecting in the parks. I let her say her piece and then she went inside. About ten minutes later, she came out with a cold drink for me and apologized. We chatted; I told her about the history of the area and showed her how I cut a neat plug in the dirt. Turns out, she had some MD'ers trespassing on one of her properties a month prior, and she chased them out. Because of them, she thought we were all a sneaky, roguish lot of scofflaws. By the end of our conversation, we had both agreed that the folks who don't pick up their dog poo in the park are more of a nuisance than MOST MD'ers.

I think more city officials are put off by people digging sloppy holes or trespassing or hunting in the dark after the parks have closed than by people asking questions about detecting.