Karl von Muller"s, Iron grate found above the Colorado river

[ghostdog]

In one of KVN"S older books,he decribes finding a crude Iron type grate used as a door,or at least a blocker for fronting a entrance way,at the front inside of a cave he and I think Hardrock Hammond,located,while exploreing high above the Colorado river. He shows a photo of a old Spanish sword and he states found with the sword was a very old saddle pack,and antique guns,and other items. In the same chapter,he states while exploreing a cave in Wyoming,they located some very small and unusal mummified wrapped bodies,which they left where they lay. He does not say which part of the Colorado river they were exploreing,but my guess is they probably were leads from Indians. I think in most cases the iron door stories really pertain to crudely made iron grates fashoned by the Spanish,the same as they might make a mule shoe in one of their field forges. Why they cant be located,I don't know?

[morbiusandneo]

In one of KVN"S older books,he decribes finding a crude Iron type grate used as a door,or at least a blocker for fronting a entrance way,at the front inside of a cave he and I think Hardrock Hammond,located,while exploreing high above the Colorado river. He shows a photo of a old Spanish sword and he states found with the sword was a very old saddle pack,and antique guns,and other items. In the same chapter,he states while exploreing a cave in Wyoming,they located some very small and unusal mummified wrapped bodies,which they left where they lay. He does not say which part of the Colorado river they were exploreing,but my guess is they probably were leads from Indians. I think in most cases the iron door stories really pertain to crudely made iron grates fashoned by the Spanish,the same as they might make a mule shoe in one of their field forges. Why they cant be located,I don't know?

Are either of these men still with us? steven.

[Siegfried Schlagrule]

both are dead for years. siegfried schlagrule

[grizzly bare]

Why can't the "cave with the iron door" be found? They are. Many times. Check the Lost Treasure archives. Check here on TreasureNet(best website on the net!) check almost any treasure hunting site and you will find several stories about these caves. They have been seen many times. The cave above Treasure Lake in Oklahoma has been seen by at least a dozen people. One cave in California has been documented by government workers who saw it but did not approach it.
Why can't we (I mean that literally-You and Me) find these caves? Multitude of reasons. One explanation. They must be spotted when the sun reflects from them at a precise angle and when the spotter is standing in the right place. Some of them are on National Forest Land where we are forbidden to detect. Some are on private property. Some are on public land so inhospitable that we don't hunt there. (Think Death Valley). Some have been covered by earthquakes and rock slides.
Sooner or later, one of the treasureNet family will stumble across one of these caves and we will find out what is important enough to hide when the Spanish (or whomever) left.
I believe in these caches and just wish I had the physical health to spend a year searching.

grizzly bare

[Kut2TheChase]

You can detect in nation forest, not national park.

[TreasureTales]

ghostdog, would you please cite the "older book" in which you found this information? I would like to read the rest of the story, so to speak. I've heard of these stories for years and have always wanted to try to find something with a Spanish gate. Not saying I can, but I'd sure like to read more about these places.

KvM had two friends whose nickname was "Hardrock." Besides Hardrock Hammond (probably his closest friend), he had a friend named Hardrock Hendricks. Sometimes I wonder if the two ever got confused through the years -- not by KvM, but by those who wrote about KvM. Something to think about as you read more and more secondary material about KvM and his exploits.

[grizzly bare]

Kut,
You are correct. My mind was asleep but my fingers were still typing.
Thanks for catching that.

grizzly bare

[ghostdog]

Ok,for sure it could have been Hardrock Hendricks,as i typed the Iron grate imfo from memory. I will check my books,and post the correct imformation. I think it was manuel #7,my KVM treasure books are all apart from lots of use,hopefully I still have the page.Ya-all probably have heard that song at the right time at the right place,or the wrong place at the right time,well lately that seems to be me all the time,however i do think KVM was at the right places at the right times.

[TreasureTales]

I'm in the middle of reading a book about Hardrock Hendricks' treasure adventures. If I come across anything that even remotely seems to pertain to the Spanish gate story, I'll post it here. Happy Hunting everybody.

[newbieprospector]

You can detect in nation forest, not national park.

But be careful and talk to the Forest Service folks first, many of them require special permits or the fines will be pretty hefty along with the confiscation of your detector

This is the general blurb associatied with using metal detectors in Naitonal Forest and sometimes Parks if you just ask:

"Metal detector use is allowed in developed campgrounds and picnic areas if they are not specifically closed to such activity. If archaeological remains are known to exist in a campground or picnic area, a closure to metal detecting would be posted. It is permissible to collect coins, but prospecting for gold would be subject to mining laws. However, you should know that agencies have not identified every archaeological site on public lands, so it is possible you may run into such remains that have not yet been discovered. Archaeological remains on federal land, known or unknown, are protected under law. If you were to discover such remains, you should leave them undisburbed, stop metal detecting in that area, and notify the local FS office."

Here are the legal citations:

Code of Federal Regulations, 36 CFR 261.9: "The following are
prohibited: (g) digging in, excavating, disturbing, injuring, destroying,
or in any way damaging any prehistoric, historic, or archaeological
resources, structure, site, artifact, or property. (h) Removing any
prehistoric, historic, or archaeological resources, structure, site,
artifact, property."

USDA Forest Service Manual Direction (draft): "Metal Detector Use. Metal
detectors may be used on public lands in areas that do not contain or
would not reasonably be expected to contain archaeological or historical
resources. They must be used, however, for lawful purposes. Any act with
a metal detector that violates the proscriptions of the Archaeological
Resources Protection Act (ARPA) or any other law is prosecutable.
Normally, developed campgrounds, swimming beaches, and other developed
recreation sites are open to metal detecting unless there are heritage
resources present. In such cases, Forest Supervisors are authorized to
close these sites by posting notices in such sites."

ARPA, 16 U.S.C. 470cc: "No person may excavate, remove, damage, or
otherwise alter or deface or attempt to excavate, remove, damage or
otherwise alter or deface any archaeological resources located on public lands or Indian
lands unless such activity is pursuant to a permit. . ."

[Daryl Friesen]

hey,

Karl Von Mueller was also big into the Lue Treasure and may have been looking for it in this area as well. I know he was very interested in the area around Pyramid mountain in Colorado. How close is the Colorado river to Pyramid mountain?

www.bc-alter.net/dfriesen/luemap.html

Daryl

[Shortstack]

KvM had two friends whose nickname was "Hardrock." Besides Hardrock Hammond (probably his closest friend), he had a friend named Hardrock Hendricks. Sometimes I wonder if the two ever got confused through the years -- not by KvM, but by those who wrote about KvM. Something to think about as you read more and more secondary material about KvM and his exploits.

KvM and "Hardrock" Hammond were long time friends and THing partners & confidants. Mr. Hammond was a trained Aeronautical Engineer and the first "Hardrock". KvM and Mr. Hendricks were acquaintances, but not friends--there is a difference. Back when KvM was writing a regular column in that THing magazine, he would answer any questions his readers wrote to him if they would include a SASE. (this was a long time before 'puters) There were so many people jumping into the treasure hunting publishing arena with "expert" books that I wrote to Karl once and asked for his opinion on three individuals who were "known" to most THers and how much they REALLY knew. One of those 3 names was "Hardrock" Hendricks. He wrote back that he was not impressed with any of the 3 I'd named and he felt their knowledge and abilities were overblown.

ghostdog--
For the reasons stated above, I believe that if KvM was prowling the mountains "above the Colorado River", it probably was NOT with Hendricks. You see, he went on many field trips, even into Mexico, with Hammond, who he trusted with his life. One of my favorite von Mueller stories was the one about a particular trip to Mexico. He told how he was sitting on the running board of Hammond's WW II ambalance-turned-field vehicle eating some supper when "Hardrock" told him to 'freeze'. He did, without question, and watched as a huge rattlesnake slid between his feet and kept going toward the brush. When that snake got out a short ways, Hammond shot its head off with his revolver and started laughing at the expression on Karl's face. KvM made many, many references to Hammond (all positive) and very few to Hendricks. I could be wrong, but I don't think I am. SS knows more about KvM than I do. Maybe, he'll have some input here.

[ghostdog]

Their was a lot of gold found in a location called Pyramid,Nevada,and the early Spanish were rumored to have found it first. I have been trying to get my step son,who lives in Las Vegas to go their,but no progress has been made yet,I may have to pay his gas.

[cptbil]

Ghost Dog:
say!
Docc and I, plus the rest of the "pack" will be out and up that way this coming summer.
Want to get togather and talk this over ?

[cptbil]

Grizzly Bare:
If you can sit in camp, as our "Camp Sitter", you can be involved in these treasure hunts...
That doesn't take much physical effort
And!
Yet, You Are There !
What say ?
Very sincerly,
Cptbil, Doc, Aragorn & Bugs !

[ghostdog]

Hey Captbil dude,how you doin,man if i wasnt working right now,Id go up to Nevada in a flash,good booze,gambloing,warm woman,and plenty of gold. Going to Nevada is just what I need ,just dont want to lose my job for now, but maybe in a couple of months ,I wont care, who knows. Im working on getting a new soft tail harley,and a used Humvee for my treasure foreays.

If you need anymore imfo on the Pyramid Nevada just let me know,i have a few more leads


ghostdog

[St. Jerome]

I will go take a photo of an old spanish iron grate for yall and the trap that is on the other side of it. Just beyond that is a tunnel entrance that has been filled in not caved in. It is in arizona. The grate is is hidden by large rocks that fell in front of the entrance naturally or blasted. I won't mess with it because it is on national forest. I doubt the fed would let me have anything with a trove permit either. They 're so tight right now they would have me excavate it so they didn't have to pay their own guys to do it, then they would give me a souvenoir to put on a shelf for my grandkids to look at. It wouldn't be worth the the work just to get robbed by my own federal gubment. maybe someday they will change the rule.

St. Geronimo

[ghostdog]

Cool man,I"d love to see a few photos ,be watchin, probably the Guvment to,
good luck in your hunts.

[stevesno]

I will go take a photo of an old spanish iron grate for yall and the trap that is on the other side of it. Just beyond that is a tunnel entrance that has been filled in not caved in. It is in arizona. The grate is is hidden by large rocks that fell in front of the entrance naturally or blasted. I won't mess with it because it is on national forest. I doubt the fed would let me have anything with a trove permit either. They 're so tight right now they would have me excavate it so they didn't have to pay their own guys to do it, then they would give me a souvenoir to put on a shelf for my grandkids to look at. It wouldn't be worth the the work just to get robbed by my own federal gubment. maybe someday they will change the rule.

St. Geronimo

I for one am chomping at the bits to see that pic...Steve

[Old Dog]

Bump this to the top and keep track of it.
I am anxious to see the photos as well

Thom