$100,000 in Gold 1849 - Page 2
Welcome guest, is this your first visit?
Member
Discoveries
 
Page 2 of 2 FirstFirst 12
Results 16 to 25 of 25
Like Tree31Likes

Thread: $100,000 in Gold 1849

« Prev Thread | Next Thread »
  1. #16

    Mar 2015
    1,171
    5098 times
    All Types Of Treasure Hunting
    Hello AARC

    Here is shot of some of foundations of some of the houses. Clifford was never much more than a small hamlet.

    Click image for larger version. 

Name:	clifford ghost town 5.JPG 
Views:	24 
Size:	152.4 KB 
ID:	1786067

    Might be a nice place to detect especially knowing some of history of some of people who lived. Everyday objects is a time machine back to that era.

    Kanacki
    Last edited by KANACKI; Jan 04, 2020 at 06:00 PM.

  2. #17

    Mar 2015
    1,171
    5098 times
    All Types Of Treasure Hunting
    Here is another version of the story.

    One reported treasure was buried in 1862 by a gang of bandits who stole more than $100,000 in army payroll money. As with most treasure tales, this story has many versions, including the one that follows.

    These robbers were already notorious for crimes they had committed in Sacramento, California, in 1847. By 1862, though, they had moved to eastern Colorado and were livingquiet lives as farmers, sheepherders, or cattle ranchers. Still, they decided to join together for one last robbery: a poorly guarded U.S. Army payroll headed for Denver. They planned their final robbery carefully, intending to divide the money and head east, most likely to Chicago.

    Their plans were ruined, however, when they found that the stagecoach was accompanied by four armed guards. They grabbed the payroll, but only two of the gang survived the shoot-out and they were quickly pursued by a posse. Rather than travel with such a heavy quantity of gold coins, the two robbers decided to bury them. A few miles east of Clifford, Colorado, they dug three shallow trenches in a circular formation. They filled the trenches and packed the earth on top to make it look as if three people had been buried in shallow graves. A rock resembling a tombstone was placed on each mound. On two of the stones, they chiseled their names and the date "1847." They carved the word "unknown" on the third stone. Exactly why they went to the trouble of preparing three graves is unknown, but perhaps they hoped that the posse would think they had been killed in a gunfight. Finally, at the center of the circle, they dug a large hole in which they buried their loot in three Dutch ovens. Then they departed.

    No one would ever have known about the treasure if a stranger from Chicago had not come to Clifford in 1884 and found a place to stay with sheep rancher James Will. The man spent most of his time walking through the barren prairie east of town. When he could not find whatever he was looking for, he related the story of the payroll robbery and the two surviving bandits to James Will and left town for good.

    Neither Will nor most of Clifford's residents put much stock into the tale — until May 1931, when George Elkins found a stone inscribed "1847"; some words also seemed to be carved in the stone, but exposure to the elements had made them illegible. Treasure seekers dug far and wide but did not discover any cache — or the other two stones — in the area.

    However, in November 1934, another stone was found by Tom Hatton. This stone read: "D. Grover and Joseph Fox-Lawe — Aug. 8, 1847." People assumed that these were the names of the two robbers, but more treasure hunting did not turn up the gold.

    Although one of the robbers may have returned and found the money, many people believe that the stolen payroll is still buried near Clifford. According to author Perry Eberhart, who has written about the cache, a careful treasure hunter might find the metal pots containing a fortune in gold on one of the hills that lie east of Clifford.

    Kanacki
    BillA likes this.

  3. #18

    Mar 2015
    1,171
    5098 times
    All Types Of Treasure Hunting
    Here is some pictures.....

    Of the gullies or gulches east of Clifford. In short they are small water channels or drains in fairly flat but slightly undulating countryside.

    Click image for larger version. 

Name:	gullies.JPG 
Views:	22 
Size:	67.1 KB 
ID:	1786330

    Click image for larger version. 

Name:	gullies 2.JPG 
Views:	22 
Size:	81.0 KB 
ID:	1786331

    Click image for larger version. 

Name:	gullies 4.JPG 
Views:	22 
Size:	69.9 KB 
ID:	1786332

    Kanacki

  4. #19

    Mar 2015
    1,171
    5098 times
    All Types Of Treasure Hunting
    Quote Originally Posted by KANACKI View Post
    Here is another version of the story.

    One reported treasure was buried in 1862 by a gang of bandits who stole more than $100,000 in army payroll money. As with most treasure tales, this story has many versions, including the one that follows.

    These robbers were already notorious for crimes they had committed in Sacramento, California, in 1847. By 1862, though, they had moved to eastern Colorado and were livingquiet lives as farmers, sheepherders, or cattle ranchers. Still, they decided to join together for one last robbery: a poorly guarded U.S. Army payroll headed for Denver. They planned their final robbery carefully, intending to divide the money and head east, most likely to Chicago.

    Their plans were ruined, however, when they found that the stagecoach was accompanied by four armed guards. They grabbed the payroll, but only two of the gang survived the shoot-out and they were quickly pursued by a posse. Rather than travel with such a heavy quantity of gold coins, the two robbers decided to bury them. A few miles east of Clifford, Colorado, they dug three shallow trenches in a circular formation. They filled the trenches and packed the earth on top to make it look as if three people had been buried in shallow graves. A rock resembling a tombstone was placed on each mound. On two of the stones, they chiseled their names and the date "1847." They carved the word "unknown" on the third stone. Exactly why they went to the trouble of preparing three graves is unknown, but perhaps they hoped that the posse would think they had been killed in a gunfight. Finally, at the center of the circle, they dug a large hole in which they buried their loot in three Dutch ovens. Then they departed.

    No one would ever have known about the treasure if a stranger from Chicago had not come to Clifford in 1884 and found a place to stay with sheep rancher James Will. The man spent most of his time walking through the barren prairie east of town. When he could not find whatever he was looking for, he related the story of the payroll robbery and the two surviving bandits to James Will and left town for good.

    Neither Will nor most of Clifford's residents put much stock into the tale — until May 1931, when George Elkins found a stone inscribed "1847"; some words also seemed to be carved in the stone, but exposure to the elements had made them illegible. Treasure seekers dug far and wide but did not discover any cache — or the other two stones — in the area.

    However, in November 1934, another stone was found by Tom Hatton. This stone read: "D. Grover and Joseph Fox-Lawe — Aug. 8, 1847." People assumed that these were the names of the two robbers, but more treasure hunting did not turn up the gold.

    Although one of the robbers may have returned and found the money, many people believe that the stolen payroll is still buried near Clifford. According to author Perry Eberhart, who has written about the cache, a careful treasure hunter might find the metal pots containing a fortune in gold on one of the hills that lie east of Clifford.

    Kanacki
    Clearly one has sort out the actual errors in this alleged treasure story? Both story version have glaring errors.

    James Will was 50 in 1930 so he was born in 1880. He was born in England so any encounter before that date is purely in the zone of fantasy.

    Kanacki
    BillA likes this.

  5. #20

    Mar 2015
    1,171
    5098 times
    All Types Of Treasure Hunting
    The facts to date.

    1. the hamlet of Clifford existed.
    2. James Will existed.
    3. Elkins existed.
    4. Thomas Hatton Existed.
    5. There was a record of Joseph Fox-Lawe who coincidental was born in 1847 the same date marked on the stone.

    All other aspects of story are at this stage speculation. We have two versions of this alleged treasure of gold coins. 1847 cannot be the year of this alleged robbery because The California Gold Rush was a gold rush that began on January 24, 1848, when gold was found by James W. Marshall at Sutter's Mill in Coloma, California. The news of gold brought approximately 300,000 people to California from the rest of the United States and abroad. gold coins was in short supply at the time.

    $100000 is an ungodly sum of money for the era.

    As for it being an alleged army payroll how come there never seems to be records of these alleged payroll thefts? clearly the original story over time has been polluted with assumptions to make the story more dramatic. In searching through all newspaper reports I have not come across any record with that amount of gold coin alleged to be stolen.

    With so many key aspects of the story incorrect and improbable then we must consider the who story was originally a hoax that got out of hand over time. Since James Wills was the likely perpetrator and now long dead we will never know for sure? But perhaps most of all we should appreciate the lesson it in gives in regards to how treasure legends can evolve.

    Kanacki
    Last edited by KANACKI; Jan 06, 2020 at 05:42 PM.
    BillA and Jason in Enid like this.

  6. #21

    Oct 2016
    2,336
    1461 times
    Researching Treasure Stories Author
    From your post "According to author Perry Eberhart, who has written about the cache, a careful treasure hunter might find the metal pots containing a fortune in gold on one of the hills that lie east of Clifford." I take it you have one of his books, I got at least one of his myself. You cracked the book open and read, at this point you have researched more than many who post their expert viewpoints on why something cant be true. A single story can take a long time to research, they can even be found to contain enough flaws that I doubt some of them. But then when the object is the study of lost treasure stories and their origins, I find it odd folks are still stuck in the mind set of thinking they have to go dig a treasure to prove it exists. The treasure story is the real treasure. A local story, someone buys a detector, someone makes money. A author includes it in his book, a copy sells he makes some money. This story above would be a good fit for a book that includes other lost treasures of that section of the state.
    KANACKI likes this.

  7. #22

    Mar 2015
    1,171
    5098 times
    All Types Of Treasure Hunting
    Hello Tiredman

    Indeed at treasure legends are treasure in itself.

    my apologies in advance if I was going to make a speculative hypothesis on the source of this alleged treasure? I was suspect that if the above story was true and not a Hoax? The alleged treasure buried there may of been connected to Sam Bass and Jack Davies?

    Sam bass below.

    Name:  SamBass-295x300.jpg
Views: 85
Size:  24.2 KB

    At the isolated train station at Big Springs, Nebraska,

    Click image for larger version. 

Name:	bigspringsNE.jpg 
Views:	21 
Size:	82.0 KB 
ID:	1787875

    Their first train robbery took place on September 18, 1877. Capturing the station master, John Barnhart, and destroying the telegraph, they forced him to signal the eastbound express train to stop.

    Click image for larger version. 

Name:	bigspringstrain.jpg 
Views:	18 
Size:	55.6 KB 
ID:	1787876



    At 10:48 p.m., the six bandits boarded the train. Finding only $450 in the mail car safe, they then went to rob the larger safe but it had a time lock preventing it from being opened until the train reached its destination. Though they beat the express messenger brutally in an attempt to get him to open it, the messenger was unable to. However, the outlaws continued to search the train car, finding some wooden boxes, which revealed $60,000 worth of freshly minted $20 gold pieces. Why these were not in the safe is unknown. The bandits then began to systematically rob the train passengers. In the end, they escaped with the $60,000 in freshly minted gold coins, $450.00 from the mail car safe, and about $1,300.00 and four gold watches from the passengers.

    Splitting the money up six ways beneath the “lone tree” east of Big Springs, the outlaws split up into pairs, each heading in a different direction.

    A week after the robbery, Joel Collins and Bill Heffridge were killed by a sheriff’s posse near Buffalo Station (now Gove), Kansas and some $20,000 was recovered. Jim Berry was captured and wounded at Mexico, Missouri and died two days later. Tom Nixon disappeared carrying, according to Berry, $10,000, never to be seen again. It has long been thought that he went to Canada?

    Sam Bass and Jack Davis, posing as farmers, rode south in a one horse buggy with their share of the haul stowed under the seat. Making it back to Texas, Sam Bass explained his newfound wealth as having been made in a strike in the Black Hills. He would soon start another gang, robbing trains in Texas before being killed the following year. On July 21, 1878 – his 27th birthday, he would die from gunshot wounds received in an ambush by Texas Rangers at Round Rock, Texas.

    2 key points.

    1. It was been suggested by many that he had hidden some of his share of the money from that robbery.
    2. Fleeing south From Brig springs to Round Rock Texas Davies and Bass could of passed through Clifford fearing capture by the slow progress of the buggy. Perhaps in fear of being caught with the goods. They buried portions or all of the two shares using fake names and dates as markers on stones? Since their names was not connected to markings on the stones no one except them would understand its relevance?

    Later Jack Davis, who had tried to persuade to escape with him to South America, was never seen again. Or it is supposed? Perhaps Davis fled rather waiting until a time he thought the coast was clear and waited to return to Clifford 30 years later. Or came back to clifford after Bass was killed? However I think fear of being caught and hung gave Davis second thoughts for many years?

    But time Memory and seasons can change the landscape. Returning to Clifford around perhaps 1908? Davis met James Will a farmer there telling him the "1849 Sacramento story" too afraid to tell the real story as he might of been afraid of being jailed for the 1877 train robbery? Unable to recover what he buried over 30 years maybe Davis went back east disappointed or rich?

    The story is we hear today is what James Will recalled from a short conversation of man he met 20 odd years before in 1935 and the names found on stones near by by other farmers working the land there?

    If that was the case and my hypothesis is correct?

    Base on current gold prices and each of the Bandits share 500 20 dollar gold coins worth on present melt price alone $1539.00 each share of the looted coins could be worth at least $769500.00 which if there is two share one each from Davis and Bass it could be worth $1539000.00. Please note that is speculative value based on melt value. Not collectors numeric value.

    Click image for larger version. 

Name:	Liberty-Head-20-Gold-Dollars-Type-3-1877-Obverse.jpeg 
Views:	25 
Size:	426.4 KB 
ID:	1787872

    Click image for larger version. 

Name:	Liberty-Head-20-Gold-Dollars-Type-3-1877-Reverse.jpeg 
Views:	27 
Size:	442.2 KB 
ID:	1787873

    That said this is all speculative. Even in the remotest chance coins was actually found it would next to impossible to comprehensively prove the cache was from Davis and Bass. Regardless of even if the dates on the coins did not exceed 1877.

    So if I had some time and passing by Clifford and opportunity arose to have permission off land owners and a chance to detect I would not sneer at the opportunity.

    Walking in footsteps of forgotten history who could be a better treasure than that.

    Kanacki
    Last edited by KANACKI; Jan 08, 2020 at 12:59 AM.
    BillA likes this.

  8. #23

    Mar 2015
    1,171
    5098 times
    All Types Of Treasure Hunting
    Now looking through the eyes of entrepreneur if the farmland around Clifford is unproductive. In region not very economically diverse. Or really interesting for tourists? The small town of Hugo 8 miles away up the road could benefit from increased traffic visiting the area. As you can see Clifford virtually does not exist anymore below but the roads do.

    Click image for larger version. 

Name:	clifford ghost town 5.JPG 
Views:	32 
Size:	152.4 KB 
ID:	1788174

    Click image for larger version. 

Name:	clifford ghost town 4.JPG 
Views:	27 
Size:	59.8 KB 
ID:	1788178

    It would be easy to make a road side parking off the hwy and a sign posted enter into free metal detecting park or small paying permit with basic rules and sign posted story of this treasure legend, Our course all services are up the road a few miles in Hugo. Gas station, Road side diners, bars, RV parks , motels, super market etc....Could all benefit from increased traffic.

    The park could be marketed in FWD ARV magazines, tourism blogs local and interstate news across the country etc...Aiming at the retired grey nomad market. Specifically suggesting their may be over million up for grabs for a lucky detector search for. Promoting the spirit of pioneers and spirit of adventure will at the same time not feeling like they are breaking any laws.

    Now the landholder would have to be compensated so if the businesses in town increase their business they would have to pay small levy to the landholder for increased business. or charge detectorists a modest fee for a permit. If it could be publicized in the national press it could draw much tourist dollars into the town increasing employment etc.. Benefiting the local micro economy.

    Its not an new concept Gold field Arizona has been riding off the back of the lost Dutchman mine story for years cashing in its history for the tourist buck..

    Kanacki
    Last edited by KANACKI; Jan 08, 2020 at 08:01 PM.

  9. #24

    Jul 2020
    44
    15 times
    All Types Of Treasure Hunting
    Something doesn't sound right. 8 robbers, someone took time enough to count but not enough time to follow. The story seems contrived. You wouldn't pack that much gold and "TAKE IT TO COLORADO". If the story is real, they would of headed to San Francisco, Nevada maybe. And you wouldn't leave a hand drawn stone marker where you buried gold.

    "1935" sounds like somebody is trying to sell newspapers.

    Who knows their maybe a little bit of accurate information in any of the stories about some robbery. It's the game of Telephone.

    I personally like to take a big dump and piss on where I bury my gold. Maybe pack some horse **** on top. It's a natural repellent.

    Look for the Petrified Turds


    Last edited by HonkeytonkMan; Oct 13, 2020 at 03:06 PM.

  10. #25
    us
    Sir

    Sep 2015
    Connecticut
    Minelab
    8,247
    4528 times
    All Types Of Treasure Hunting
    Good luck to those seeking these treasures.

 

 
Page 2 of 2 FirstFirst 12

Sponsored Links

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  

Similar Threads

  1. Replies: 57
    Last Post: Apr 10, 2019, 12:20 PM
  2. 1849 Gold $1 coin!
    By huntnva in forum Today's Finds!
    Replies: 77
    Last Post: Dec 02, 2016, 08:14 PM
  3. 1849 D $5 gold piece
    By Tom_in_CA in forum Today's Finds!
    Replies: 104
    Last Post: Aug 14, 2015, 12:08 PM
  4. 1849 GOLD COIN, FROM THE GOLD RUSH..IN PHILLY..WOW.
    By Vino in forum Today's Finds!
    Replies: 154
    Last Post: May 15, 2015, 06:36 PM
  5. 1849 $ 10 gold found
    By Tom_in_CA in forum Today's Finds!
    Replies: 38
    Last Post: Aug 22, 2011, 09:45 PM
Powered by vBadvanced CMPS v4.3.0