Pancho Villas Silver

[Roadquest]

Re: Pancho Villa's Silver

Joe, my position is that there are 1000s of reports of Villa stealing/looting. Do I believe them all ? No certainly not. But if I discount even 95% of the reports I am still left with a sizable amount.

I think 5% would be a conservative estimate. But, as you said even at that
it would be sizable amount.

Clayton

 

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[Real de Tayopa Tropical Tramp]

Re: Pancho Villa's Silver

MINES, MULES, and ME in old Mexico" Written by Parker, owner and chief Engr of the Republica mine. He wrote that the most trustworthy mule train operator was a gentleman called Pancho villa. He always delivered on time and with the cargo intact. He also was the best "Mule pusher" around.

I guess that people do change.

Don Jose de La Mancha

p.s. How did they pack 2000 ft or more of 1" hoist cable by mules?

 

[Peerless67]

Re: Pancho Villa's Silver

RDT: "p.s. How did they pack 2000 ft or more of 1" hoist cable by mules?"

there are a few ways

 

[Oroblanco]

Re: Pancho Villa's Silver

HOLA amigos,

I think Villa was choosy about whom and when he would rob. I was shocked to find a newspaper article with a glowing report from an archaeologist (probably not that title at the time) whom had hired Villa to work as his guide, and had Villa hold his money as he was afraid of his other hired men. Villa returned every cent after the trip, so was given the balance left after paying the men ($50) as a reward. Yet Villa had no compunctions about holding certain folks for ransom (like our earlier mentioned example Terrazas) nor "hijacking" monies and valuables found in possession of his enemies, robbing trains, emptying out banks etc. So perhaps he really was a bit of the "Robin Hood" type?
Oroblanco

RDT: "p.s. How did they pack 2000 ft or more of 1" hoist cable by mules?"

there are a few ways

I would point out that "hoist cable" of that time period is not necessarily steel cable, rope cables were still in fairly common use at least up until the 1940's. Rope cables even of 1" size are not nearly as heavy to pack.

 

[Real de Tayopa Tropical Tramp]

Re: Pancho Villa's Silver

HIO Peeerless cheated. ORO is correct, but by the late 1800's the major mines used steel cables. Rope can only be used at shallow depths .

Now, what was Pancho's position as a pusher?

Don Jose de La Mancha

p.s. Parker was the first to use silver slugs / blobs of up to 500 # to frustrate the bandidos.

 

[cactusjumper]

Re: Pancho Villa's Silver

Roy,

Villa killed many, many people. I am not sure his version of the character of the victims and the circumstances of their deaths would be high on the truth scale.

As for the people who claimed their name was Pancho Villa, you might consider that an effort to empress potential employers who are looking for a tough hombre to guard their goodies. You know those Mexican bandido's all looked alike.

It's a beautiful day here in Lake Havasu City. Clear sky's, slight breeze and warm. I really don't miss that white crap.......one bit.

Best to you and the missus,

Joe

 

[Oroblanco]

Re: Pancho Villa's Silver

HOLA amigos,

Joe I agree with you 100% viz Villa's versions of things (some are online believe it or not including his version of the battle of Ojinaga, where the Terrazas escaped into the USA with his loot. The account I was referencing was not from Villa but an archie (or perhaps "historian" would be more correct for the time) who said he had hired Villa to act as his guide. Of course we have no way of knowing whether the man referred to actually WAS Villa or someone just using his name.
Oroblanco

 

[Peerless67]

Re: Pancho Villa's Silver

Hello all I am back....

"p.s. Parker was the first to use silver slugs / blobs of up to 500 # to frustrate the bandidos."


I wonder how many ways they cast gold/silver ingots/bars back then and the methods used, I guess they would have been all different shapes and sizes.
I mean a 33 kilo bar would be a big ole bar, and what would they have used to cast these bars/ingots in, probably used some strange materials to form molds.

<<< extra cup for Don Jose de la wassamacallit

 

[Real de Tayopa Tropical Tramp]

Re: Pancho Villa's Silver

HI Peerless: back for my coffee and bs err and campfire talk.

Oro & BETH will you join us? Bring the rest of the guys with you .

Don Jose de La Mancha

 

[Oroblanco]

Re: Pancho Villa's Silver

Always ready to listen (*or read*) - looking forward to it!
Oroblanco

 

[whitt459]

Re: Pancho Villa's Silver

happy holidays to all and may all find what they seek. whitt459

 

[Peerless67]

Re: Pancho Villa's Silver

Hi Joe, Oro, RDT and all, happy new year.

I was wondering what casting method might leave a woodgrain type pattern on bars of precious metals.

I have never seen a mold for bars or ingots made of wood, could there be another explanation ?



Gary

 

[cactusjumper]

Re: Pancho Villa's Silver

Gary,

Wood molds have been used for gold castings. I can't imagine them being used for simple ingots, as a hole scraped in the ground works fine. I wonder if they could have been removed while still pretty hot, and laid on wood boards? Lay them on a board, put another board on top and pound the ingot flat, something like a blacksmith working metal.

OK, it's a slow night.

Take care,

Joe

 

[Peerless67]

Re: Pancho Villa's Silver

I am not sure if what I have seen is an actual woodgrain, but it does look just like woodgrain.
The problem with the method you mention is that the sides and ends and "bottom" appear to have the "woodgrain" the top is smooth. they are also tapered on the sides and ends.

maybe that should be the bottom is smooth and the top has the woodgrain pattern.

 

[Oroblanco]

Re: Pancho Villa's Silver

HOLA amigo Peerless and a Happy New Year to you too! (Good to see you again!)

Another way in which wood grains can end up on the metal castings can be when a wooden block was used to make the form in the same (or clay) which is then removed, leaving a woodgrain pattern in the sand/clay, that the molten metal then copies.

I wouldn't have known about this except for some experimenting with a charcoal foundry casting aluminum which was fun, had to leave it behind though when we moved as it <the firebrick-lined barrel foundry>was extremely heavy. If ever I get ahead of things here I do hope to play with it again, may even try a little silver this time.
Oroblanco

 

[Peerless67]

Re: Pancho Villa's Silver

These are the kind of woodgrain patterns I would like to learn about.

PS: the pic has been cropped and enlarged, sorry about the quality.

 

[ghostdog]

Re: Pancho Villa's Silver

I believe a system with wood forms was used similiar to that used to make adobe bricks. With precious medals though it is my opinion they basted the inside of the forms with a ground up mix of alovara and other natural plants to stop the hot medals from flowing into the wood.
The pattern you see may be integrated ripples from the plant mix?

 

[Peerless67]

Re: Pancho Villa's Silver

Oro :Another way in which wood grains can end up on the metal castings can be when a wooden block was used to make the form in the same (or clay) which is then removed, leaving a woodgrain pattern in the sand/clay, that the molten metal then copies."


This is something I considered, the problem being that the bars are all different sizes in all directions.
Ghostdog also mentions wood forms, but to my way of thinking if you were working with purposely premanufactured forms, would you not make an effort to make them as close to the same as possible ?

The full picture shows 11 bars and every one of them is different.
I would love to see an image of such a mold (wooden)

I should add that I am really trying to find out if Villa may have formed such bars, or even if others of his generation may have created such bars.
Because of their difference in sizes I think maybe the person(s) who made the molds, made them to accomodate the amount of metal they had to pour at the time.
I remember reading an article sometime back about the hollow stems of some of the large grass's being used as molds, I guess this would be somewhat similar to the hollow inside of bamboo.

 

[ghostdog]

Re: Pancho Villa's Silver

There were some bamboo shoots found in Texas with poured gold rods inside, and also a large lead ball which when cracked open produced a poured gold ball. These items were made by some very old Spanish miners.