Oregons Lost Blue Bucket Diggins - A Scarce Pioneer Account of the Legend

[Real de Tayopa Tropical Tramp]

Re: Oregon's Lost Blue Bucket Diggins - A Scarce Pioneer Account of the Legend

Reedin, but not ritin just yet.

Smooch for the nice Valentine Cyan Luv.sigh

Don Jose de La Mancha

 

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[Cynangyl]

Re: Oregon's Lost Blue Bucket Diggins - A Scarce Pioneer Account of the Legend

aha! There he is! We will await your typing mi amigo! Looking forward to your opinion on this topic! Missed you mi tropical tramp! thank you again for the valentine post.

 

[Real de Tayopa Tropical Tramp]

Re: Oregon's Lost Blue Bucket Diggins - A Scarce Pioneer Account of the Legend

HIO: A side thngie to think about in your speculations.

My Great grandparents came across the prairies to California alone in the mid 1800's They followed a crude map and managed to cross the sierras alone, also a fantastic feat.

They told me that on one occasion they broke camp and a few miles further on found that others had made camp also, the coals were still hot. They heard a baby crying and upon investigation found a nude, abandoned baby in the grass, he had been deliberately abandoned. They took him along to California and raised him. When they died, he took over the family which was his now.

I was told that while they followed the map, basically they often were only in the general vicinity of where the map indicated. Many times the map was completely off. Even the trains had the same problem except for prominent markers.

Soo allow for a generous error except for crossings or prominent markers in your search. but remember, in good conditions, they only made a few miles daily.In mountainous regions, sometimes progress was measured in Meters.

Incidentally they were not molested by the Indians that were watching them, since the Indians considered them crazy for trying to do this and so were a bit sacred.

Don Jose d e La Mancha

p.s. Yes, this makes me a native son of California, but not of the California of today. Like ORO, I am now an Arizonian.

 

[Cynangyl]

Re: Oregon's Lost Blue Bucket Diggins - A Scarce Pioneer Account of the Legend

wow...quite a history! Glad we got in here so you shared it with us. I have noticed the whole not movin far portion of the deal...can you imagine what they would have thought knowing how far WE travel in a day at times? I don't think they would believe it!

 

[Real de Tayopa Tropical Tramp]

Re: Oregon's Lost Blue Bucket Diggins - A Scarce Pioneer Account of the Legend

HI cyn LUV: what most do not realize is that they were driving pigs, goats, cattle, horses, and other live stock along wih the women and children walking.

Also time had to be alloted each day for finding, making camp, then breaking camp the next morning.

In the sierras they actually had to dismantle the wagons and lower the parts down by rope, move them to the assemby area, then after bringing all together, go on for a little bit. This was repeated day after day.

One could say that we are spoiled today.

Don Jose de La Mancha

 

[Cynangyl]

Re: Oregon's Lost Blue Bucket Diggins - A Scarce Pioneer Account of the Legend

ah yes....we are VERY spoiled today!

 

[Oroblanco]

Re: Oregon's Lost Blue Bucket Diggins - A Scarce Pioneer Account of the Legend

Don Jose', Dueno de Real y Minas de Tayopa wrote

Like ORO, I am now an Arizonian.

You now reside there amigo? Dang it how many times are we going to cross paths, without meeting? I have heard good things about your coffee...
Oroblanco

 

[Oroblanco]

Re: Oregon's Lost Blue Bucket Diggins - A Scarce Pioneer Account of the Legend

HOLA amigos,
Another interesting account of the Lost Blue Bucket gold mine, material is under copyright so can only post a representative sample extract, some notable differences in this version

<snip>...
Along the way, the party met with trouble again as one member was stricken with fever and died, and just a few miles later, several of the oxen were lost. On August 25, 1845, three of the young men soon went out in search of the stock, walking all day and well into the late afternoon before coming to a small stream. Quenching their thirst, they picked up 15-20 pebbles in the creek that displayed an unusual color. Finding their oxen, they then returned to the train.
<snip>

full story is at
http://www.legendsofamerica.com/OR-BlueBucket.html

Note the date is set in August rather than September, as well as similarities of quenching thirst, finding gold in the stream bed etc.
Oroblanco

 

[Cynangyl]

Re: Oregon's Lost Blue Bucket Diggins - A Scarce Pioneer Account of the Legend

hmmm now not only the area is getting spread out but the time frame! lol Gracias Amigo! I can use all the different accounts of this that I can find...makes the research that much more fun! I have been lax in my research duties the last couple of weeks with some extra duties around here but hopefully will be back to studying hard again soon!

 

[Oroblanco]

Re: Oregon's Lost Blue Bucket Diggins - A Scarce Pioneer Account of the Legend

HOLA mi amigo Cynangel!
I am glad to hear that your recent silence has been due to extra duties and NOT due to bad news, not that having a lot of extra work to do is "great" but I was starting to wonder. I hope this extra information is not detrimental to your search - you know, sometimes we find just too much info that only serves to confuse things; the Lost Dutchman is a shining example of that but even in the case of the Blue Bucket we have several different and sometimes conflicting versions. I am just trying to contribute what little I can find, in hopes that if enough is compiled perhaps, just perhaps someone (like you maybe? ) will be able to put it all together and find that gold.

I have another newspaper clipping somewhere here, will post it as soon as I can find the danged thing. Organized is a word I just can't live by!
your friend,
Roy ~ Oroblanco

 

[Cynangyl]

Re: Oregon's Lost Blue Bucket Diggins - A Scarce Pioneer Account of the Legend

well bad news created the extra work but as my daughter and granddaughter get more settled in here and court is soon to finish, the work involved is leveling out to a more reasonable amount to deal with. The initial work is over atleast...now we gotta get a workable routine going and I will have more free time for research.

Don't worry about giving me too many conflicting views on the issue. I expect that. If they all agreed on everything the doggone place wouldn't be lost! lol Like I said before, Old Man Pierce was known to have come back after the indian issues were over and him and a friend mined just a few miles from where I live and he was adamant that was the area they were in when the gold was found. Many years later after he had passed away his family apparently took all of his writings and went in search of the blue bucket diggings and it appears as if they were quite a ways South East of here.....I would say a week's travel difference or more just guessing and not really studying to the map for distance. If one person's story could lead to two very different areas then I am certain with many different views it will be a large area in question. We will just have to narrow it down a little at a time! Thanks again mi amigo for all of your valuable input!

 

[Oroblanco]

Re: Oregon's Lost Blue Bucket Diggins - A Scarce Pioneer Account of the Legend

HOLA mi amigo Cynangel - I am sorry to hear that there WAS bad news involved, I hope that it was not terrible news and that you and your family are doing well. Please don't ever feel that you "have" to answer my posts here in a hurry, time does not bother me a whit and I am happy to go back to a conversation after weeks, months or longer. Besides, that Blue Bucket Gold will wait for you - no one else has found it yet!

I cannot find my newspaper clipping, hopefully it is packed in with the majority of our belongings and will turn up eventually - however I will add a bit I found in an online book:

On the east side of the Cascade mountains however the gentle savage was lord of all the lands over which he roamed Here he was yet master and therby hangs a tale In 1845 an immigrant train attempted to enter the Oregon by way of the Meeks cut off With them were the Durbins Simmons Tetherows Herrins and many others I cannot now recall The history of that journey is one of hardship starvation and death After enduring sufferings such as sicken one in the bare recital the remnant staggered into the settlements more dead than alive They crossed the Cascade mountains coming down the Middle Fork of the Willamette river and somewhere west of Harney Valley they stopped on a small stream An old Indian trail crossed at that point and the oxen in sliding down the bank to water uncovered a bright piece of metal It was picked up and taken to camp where a man who had been in the mines in Georgia pronounced it gold. He flattened it out with a wagon hammer and was quite positive it was the precious metal But men women and children subsisting on grasshoppers and crickets and fighting Indians most of the day had something else to think about The incident therefore was soon forgotten amid the dire stress of their surroundings But when gold was discovered at Sutler's Fort in California Sol Tetherow called to mind the finding of the piece of metal on the banks of the stream not far from Harney Valley He told about it told and retold the story and as the stories from California grew so grew the story of the old man until finally he declared he could have picked up a blue bucket full in the bed of the creek Hence originated the name the Blue Bucket Diggins

During the years of 1857 58 59 60 and 61 companies were formed in the valley counties to search for the Blue Bucket Diggins The companies were loosely formed with little or no discipline and were therefore predestined to end in disaster After crossing the mountains and seeing no sign of Indians the officers had no power and less inclination to enforce discipline There being no signs of Indians it was useless to maintain guards they could whip all the Indians east of the mountains and why attempt to put on military airs They were destined to a rude awakening Some morning about daylight twenty or thirty red blanketed men with hideous yells would charge the horse herds while a hundred or more with equally hideous yells would attack the sleeping men Then would result a stampede those who had talked loudest and talked most about cowards being first to lose their heads The few cool heads would make a stand while the savages after getting away with the horses would beat a retreat leaving the gold hunters to straggle afoot back across the mountains to the settlements

http://books.google.com/books?id=23...ES&pg=PA29&ci=188,300,646,447&source=bookclip<Reminiscences of a Pioneer By William Thompson>
_________________________________________________

Also this,

Colonel Cornelius was then a boy of seventeen and remembers that Meek told the men of the train of the time to be saved by travelling through a beautiful region with which he seemed very familiar It was agreed to pay him $300 to act as pilot part of it was in advance then a party was formed that moved forward Meek had just married a young girl on the border and was desirous to add to his scant store by doing this service The families of Cornelius Herren Adams and others took the new trail with perfect confidence An interesting feature of the journey was that one day in the bed of a small stream Cornelius Sr picked up a small yellow piece of metal half as large as a grain of coffee that he pounded flat on the wagon tire and wondered what it could be then threw it in the wagon bed A few years later when in the California gold mines he remembered this and then knew that they had missed discovery of gold in Oregon at that early time They were then on the headwaters of the John Day River where mines were discovered forty years ago that have proved rich to this day That was the site of the famous Blue Bucket diggings of which much has been said and written.

http://books.google.com/books?id=te...=RA1-PA576&ci=211,454,661,635&source=bookclip
<Pioneer Days of Oregon History By Samuel A. Clarke>

...more contradictory versions, not too helpful I realize but interesting I hope.

Good luck and good hunting amigo, I hope all is well with you, and that you will find the treasures that you seek!
Oroblanco

 

[Cynangyl]

Re: Oregon's Lost Blue Bucket Diggins - A Scarce Pioneer Account of the Legend

half the size of a grain of coffee on up to doorstop size eh? Interesting reading indeed. Looking at the similarities and differences in all of the stories reminds me a lot of investigations. Everyone has a different story about just how something happened. When you run across a group that does not, you can rest assured they have rehearsed the story. lol Gracias mi amigo!

 

[BudP]

Re: Oregon's Lost Blue Bucket Diggins - A Scarce Pioneer Account of the Legend

Hey Cynangyl,

Another two cents here. IMHO the only way to solve the 'Meek' puzzle is to follow the diaries. There are three existing; James Field Journal, Jesse Harritt Diary and Samuel Parker Diary. The Herren diary was burned in a house fire. Also important is the 'Narrative of Samuel Hancock. This last gives an important direction for his portion of the train after the train 'split' before coming back together at Wagontire Mt.

Everyone, it seems, uses the book 'Terrible Trail' by Clark and Tiller and the Grave of Serepta King Chambers as the be-all and end-all to the Meek/ Bluebucket question. I followed this reasoning until I started thinking. Aparently Ruby El Hult started thinking also. She was at great odds with the Clark/Tiller theory.

In their book, C&T, many times dispute the knowledge of the pioneers who 'lived it' and wrote about day-to-day travel on this....cut-off. Paraphrasing, They discounted the diary distances and directions if they did not agree with the grave location and burial date, Sept. 3, (supposedly the key to the location of the gold) 'the gold is one or two days West of the grave'.

The problem is that there is no way these people could start in Missouri and walk Westward, every morning with the sun at their backs and every afternoon with the sun in their faces and not know East from West or North from South. Also those wagons had very accurate odometers on the wheels. The diaries say it all and I am sure they were written accurately.

A wealthy Malhuer Co. cattleman, H. B. Reaves, according to Hult (I found documentation of accuracy) spent much time and money looking for the Blue Bucket. His key was to find the grave.....which he did in 1877......and then he told the world the location. I have seen it, just North of Beulah Reservoir. It used to be just sitting in the ground. It is now sitting on a nice concrete pad.........I have a big problem with a guy who searches for years for something unatainable, the key to a gold mine, then tells the world. Does the term 'red herring' compute? We have a gravestone, sitting up like an outhouse in the fog. I believe Mr. Reaves wanted to send other searchers to the North......then an entry in the Field Journal on Sept. 9 that disputes the stone's veracity.

'Last evening a child of E. Packwood, of Illinois, which had been ill a few days died suddenly. At present there are a good many sick about the camp, the majority of them complaining of fever. The child was buried in the dry wormwood barrens and as we left the camp the wagons filed over the grave, thus leaving no trace of its situation. The reason for our doing this was that the Indians in this part of the country are very fond of clothing, giving almost anything they possess in order to obtain it, and fearing that they might disturb the grave after we left, we took the precaution of leaving a beaten road across it. I cannot say that they would do anything to a grave, were they to find one, for we have passed several made by the immigrants at various times, and none of them apeared to have been disturbed. Went six miles, camping near a spring which sinks near where it rises.'

This is from people in the same train a few days apart, two completely opposite procedures for burial. Another thing about the headstone; My trade for thirty years was journeyman union Stonemason. I can tell you that it would take many hours to face and carve that stone with the tools they had. The train would not stop for that to be done AND I can't believe a husband would be fabricating it days ahead, in anticipation of his wife's death,...an hour a night,....after walking all day.

If you study the diaries you will know they never were on the Malhuer.

Bud

 

[Cynangyl]

Re: Oregon's Lost Blue Bucket Diggins - A Scarce Pioneer Account of the Legend

Thanks so much for your input Bud....seems we agree on a lot of things regarding this story. Thanks so much!

 

[BudP]

Re: Oregon's Lost Blue Bucket Diggins - A Scarce Pioneer Account of the Legend

You're welcome Cynangyl.........

It amazes me, when something like this is found.....then lost, the amount of people that claim to have been the 'finders' grow to astronomical numbers. I would bet that a full third of the people who were members of the Meek train claimed to be the man......or woman.......or child that did the deed,......and then wrote their version. All this being done no earlier than four years after they found that the piece of metal that was subsequently beaten flat on a wagon tire. This knowledge came from some of the train members who went to Cal. to participate in the 1849 gold rush. A full four years after the gold was found in OR they realized what they had missed out on.

There is real documentation that others probably picked up pieces of gold but numerous witnesses give Dan Herren credit for the original find. As I said, the Herren diary was inadvertantly burned. This is moot because NO ONE documented a gold find. No one realized it was gold, therefore no one cared about the place where a piece of....copper or brass was flattened on a wagon tire. This is why memories of ALL were faulty; that and the fact that everyone was concentrating on survival. Then the Oregon 'rush' started.

Different members of the train were enlisted as guides for parties to return to the so-called 'mine/diggings' site. The problem was; Meek did not have a clue (documented in diaries) where he was at any given time,.....merely headed West. It is documented that Meek made up names of places they passed as they traveled. More than one wrote of plans to kill Meek for his deception. Consequently, when the 'gold-seekers' returned, the place-names given by people who really knew the country didn't match what the wagon-train members remembered seeing on the original trip.......Go figure.

 

[Cynangyl]

Re: Oregon's Lost Blue Bucket Diggins - A Scarce Pioneer Account of the Legend

So very true...the fact that none went back for several years made it very difficult at best to pinpoint the area. As I mentioned before, the one account I had read the gentleman came back later and was certain he found the area....he never found the gold there though....his own family reading his writings ended up looking in a different area altogether and that was just from ONE person's memory of what happened when. lol I have seen so many different versions now that without actually marking out different accounts on a map I think you could just spin in circles and never have a clue which direction to go. So much fun researching it and reading so many stories though that even if I only become an expert on where it is not I will be happy to have done the research and had a fabulous time in the process.

 

[BudP]

Re: Oregon's Lost Blue Bucket Diggins - A Scarce Pioneer Account of the Legend

Some new......pertinent information has come my way recently. My wife and I are going to take a little trip this Summer. I have a new ATV and will have time on my hands. Prior to now, I have not been able to take the time off that a real search requires. You have to love retirement.

I have been researching this for a long time now........and I have a map. We'll see if MY 'X' marks the spot.

 

[Cynangyl]

Re: Oregon's Lost Blue Bucket Diggins - A Scarce Pioneer Account of the Legend

I sure hope so!! Good luck to ya!!

 

[Oroblanco]

Re: Oregon's Lost Blue Bucket Diggins - A Scarce Pioneer Account of the Legend

A shameless BUMP - great thread here if I must say so!
Oroblanco