Swamp Gold

[Bigcypresshunter]

PS this interesting snippet came up

The gold was stamped Confederate States of America treasury and was on route ... somewhere in West Central Broward County buried by Captain John Riley. ..

http://borderbooks.dyndns.org/confederate-gold.htm
but can't pull up the page, sounds like quite an interesting story!
Oroblanco

Thats the one. I cant get it up either but I can search borderbooks.

I want to say I really appreciate the help.

ADDED: It seems to be the same vague reference that keeps getting repeated. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Confederate_gold

When these legends are handed down it may get exaggerated over the years but often has some truth to it. This is not a KGC thing.

 

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[Oroblanco]

Glad to be of any help amigo - was about to hit the hay and forgot about this tidbit

One of Georgia's most lingering and possibly lucrative mysteries is that of the lost Confederate gold. Worth roughly $100,000 in 1865, when it disappeared, it would be a small fortune in today's dollars--around one million dollars.
On the night of May 24, 1865, two wagon trains filled with gold, one containing the last of the Confederate treasury and the other money from Virginia banks, were robbed at Chennault Crossroads in Lincoln County.

Chennault Plantation, owned by Dionysius Chennault who was an elderly planter and Methodist minister, played a significant role in the story. The gold was to be returned to France who had loaned the money to support the Confederacy. Jefferson Davis had given his word that the gold would be returned regardless of the outcome of the war. Towards the end of the war, Captain Parker of the Navy and a group of other volunteers brought the gold from Richmond, Virginia, to Anderson, South Carolina, by train and from there by wagon hoping to get to Savannah to load it on a waiting ship.

The fact that Jeff Davis had the remaining CSA treasury with him as he fled Richmond is well documented, but this gold (and silver) has vanished. Could the story of Captain Riley burying CS gold in Florida late in the war be the lost Confederate treasury? If so, it would be quite a find! That estimate of being worth "one million" today is WAY low, you know what coins and bars actually sell for. Gold was $20.67 an ounce then, over $900 today so it is easy to do the math, I get over $4,350,000 if it were nothing but ordinary gold bullion. In coins it would be considerably more. Good luck amigo I hope you find it!
Oroblanco

 

[Oroblanco]

Bigcypresshunter wrote

If you see a Confederate Captain John Riley, let me know.

HOLA amigo - sorry to say I have not found a Captain John Riley, however you know CSA records are fragmentary at best, and there were many promotions in the late stage of the war which were not made official by the government, or we simply have no existing records of. That is the 'bad' news, the "good" news is that there are indeed John Rileys in the CSN, one of whom at least was an officer (warrant grade I beiieve) as of 1864, such a person very well could have been given further promotions before the war ended.

Here are some of the John Rileys I found, using alternative spellings to be sure

Joseph Reilley, seaman, ironclad ram CSS Missouri, October – December, 1863. [ORN 2, 1, 291.]
<questionable?>

John Reilly, previously served as Private in Company A, 11th Battalion, Georgia Infantry; transferred to Company A, 47th Regiment, Georgia Infantry, May 12, 1862; detailed on gunboat service, December, 1862; in hospital in October, 1863. [Georgia Rosters, 5, 10.]

John Reilly, born Ireland; resided in Warren County, North Carolina, as a laborer; enlisted at New Hanover County, North Carolina, August 7, 1861, aged 32, as private, company F, 8th Regiment North Carolina State Troops; may have also enlisted in Lamb’s Artillery 34th Regiment, sometime between October 31, 1861 and July 2, 1862; transferred to the Confederate States Navy in March or April, 1863. [NCT 4, 579.]

John Riley, born Ireland, resided as a laborer in Cumberland County, North Carolina, where he enlisted, May 29, 1861, aged 19, as private, company C, 3rd Regiment North Carolina State Troops; transferred to the Confederate States Navy, January 29, 1862. [NCT 3, 519.]

John Riley, originally served as private, company E, 2nd Battalion, Alabama Light Artillery; transferred to the Confederate States Navy at an unspecified date. [Civil War Service Records.]

John Riley, Fireman, CSS Alabama; disrated to Coal Trimmer, November 17, 1863; captured by USS Kearsarge, June 19, 1864, off Cherbourg, France. [William Marvel; ORN 1, 2, 784.]

John Riley, seaman, CSS Rappahannock, May 16, 1864. [CSS Rappahannock Muster Roll.]

John Riley, corporal, Confederate States Marine Corps, CSS Baltic, which operated in Alabama waters; served during, or between the period, August, 1862 and June, 1863. [ORN 2, 1, 281.]

John G. Riley, ordinary seaman, served aboard the ironclad ram CSS Virginia, Hampton Roads, Virginia, 1862. [ORN 2, 1, 310.]

CSN Register: "Register of Officers of the Confederate States Navy, 1861-1865” Reprinted by John M. Carroll & Company, Mattituck, New York, 1983
http://www.csnavy.org/csn64register.htm

This is the one I mentioned above, no first name (most do not have it) but even this small bit of info found on the list of Officers of the CS Navy is a good lead.

Riley as Acting Master's Mate found in the register for 1864. Not sure how the CS naval ranks worked so he could be a warrant officer rather than commissioned.

Here is the report that included John Riley, Fireman, listed as signing to be paroled after being captured by USS Kearsarge off Cherbourg France, having served on board the CSS Alabama

http://cdl.library.cornell.edu/cgi-...=/moa/ofre/ofre0003/&tif=00948.TIF&pagenum=72

If the story is pure fiction, at least they used a name which is a real possibility for the captain. It is highly unlikely that records will turn up with details of where gold was buried, such an incident would almost certainly be done rather quietly and by verbal command rather than written orders, even if committed to paper such written orders would logically have been destroyed to prevent capture.

One other point, the story has a Captain John Riley, not to cast aspersions on the source but I have found instances where the rank of a person in a story got "exaggerated" - a mere sergeant in one example became a "Major" though to be fair he might have been a Sergeant-Major it is quite a difference. Such an exaggeration does not mean that the story is false, just a point got skewed. Sometimes exaggeration is innocent - a story of a stage robbery that started out as say $3000 in gold, when re-told years later the writer converts this value into his own gold prices of his day, "presto" the amount is multiplied; the next writer comes along and uses the NEW price to do his calculations, and the amount is multiplied again until the original $3000 becomes millions.

I wonder if anyone ever found the lighthouse lenses, which were highly valuable at the time, removed and hidden by the rebels? Did they simply retrieve them after the war, and put them back? Anyone know anything about this? Thank you in advance,
your friend,
Roy ~ Oroblanco

 

[Bigcypresshunter]

Im assumimng the John Riley story is the same as my original Confederate paymaster legend. The part that gets me is they say its "well documented." He supposedly buried the gold and was later captured confessing the story. Its very believable that you could bury something in this vast unknown swamp with little landmarks to go by and never find it again. Hell I set my rifle down to gut a deer and sometimes cant find it lol. I know someone that walked a short distance from their ATC and couldnt find it again and had to walk back without it!
I think the biggest big clue for me would be to find record of his capture by Union forces.

As far as the lighthouse glass, its too far away for me at this time to get too interested, although my folks live up that way. I think the first thing to do would be to locate the waterway and location of the lighthouse thats probably still there.

 

[Bigcypresshunter]

Some versions have the paymaster headed to Fort Meade or Mead, which was a distributing point for other temporary forts and the beef ranchers. http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.ancestry.com/~crackerbarrel/Wash.html

Fort Meade was the distributing point for temporary forts further in the interior all the way to Fort Capron on the Indian River.

There were no settlers south of Bartow to the Gulf.

Hogs and cattle would get as fat as possible running at large on the wild range, and, during the war between Cuba and Spain, the cattlemen reaped a harvest of "doubloons" through shipments of beef cattle from Punta Rassa and other points to Havana. Comments on such shipping would prove too lengthy for me to tackle here. However, the shippers would carry anywhere from 75 to 800 head in one load, averaging from $16 to $20 per head.

 

[Bigcypresshunter]

More about Fort Meade, cotton, beef cattle and the Civil War. http://books.google.com/books?id=Bs...=X&oi=book_result&resnum=7&ct=result#PPA42,M1

 

[ivan salis]

several set of light house lens were removed from various light houses to prevent their use by northern forces to allow safe passage of vessel into ports that they took over (they were removed as union troops closed in) -- amelia island (near jacksonville) florida was just such a light house -- matter of fact it just might be those light house lens they are speaking of -- ( the fernandina lens were returned at the end of the war to the light house by the light house keeper who over saw their removial *) another possibility was the mayport (st johns river entrance - light house) as it was near jacksonville also.

 

[Oroblanco]

Thanks for the info and the link to the book, fascinating reading! One of the things that always "hit" me when the skeptics dismiss tales of lost Confederate loot was that they would point at the CS government, which was perpetually 'broke' and printing money (like our govt today) that steadily devalued, but those blockade runners like Robert Johnson were making fortunes. I suspect that at least some of the stories of "Confederate loot" are in reality the huge profits of the blockade runners that got stashed and subsequently lost. The character in Gone With The Wind Rhett Butler is based on real blockade runners and smugglers who were profiteering on the war. Would a bystander/witness, observing someone in CS naval uniform burying a chest of money, know that the person they were watching was not a CSN Captain acting on orders of the CSA govt? Such a person might be a blockade runner hiding his ill-gotten gains from the invading bluecoats. Just an observation.

I do think it might be possible to track down an official report of the capture of Capt John Riley, I hope you will find it. I can suggest a couple of places you might find a bit more info than those "Official Records" - the local Historical Society often has quite a good collection, sometimes with diaries and personal letters etc not sure but this one comes up for Tampa Bay area
Dunedin Historical Society & Museum
349 Main Street
Dunedin, FL 34697
and has a museum. Newspaper archives might also help but I don't know what papers were operating the area during the war, and the rather small collection available online

http://www.uflib.ufl.edu/UFDC/UFDC.aspx?c=fdnl1

has little from the war period. Genealogical resources might be of some help too. Good luck and good hunting to you amigos, I hope you find the treasures that you seek.
your friend,
Roy ~ Oroblanco

 

[ivan salis]

blockade runners made huge sums of money for running goods and did not take paper money --- large bonuses were paid for successful voyages (in silver or gold only thank you) --- many runners were "private vessels" almost semi pirates with "offical CSA blessing" (capts often carried excess "private cargo" which they sold at a hefty profiet)-- some of the runners were outright owned by the state of north carolina * ( one of the reasons wilmigton was such a huge smuggling port) and other were offical CSA naval vessels -- the glaring weakness of the south was it lack of naval forces compared to the north (the union blockade slowly choked the south to death)

 

[Oroblanco]

Ivan when you are right, you are right - the CSA even granted Letters of Mark and Reprisal, creating quasi-legal privateers of privately owned ships.
Oroblanco

 

[Bigcypresshunter]

Toward the end of the war almost all the Confederacys beef came from Florida. The cattlemen were exempt from the draft. I know it centered around Fort Meade. I know the Union burned it down. I just dont know for sure, I can only surmise if the legend of the buried, and then lost, gold is from blockade runners.

The legend has it buried in the deep swamp where nobody lived but escaped slaves and Indians. There would be no witnesses. If there was, they could not find it again.

 

[sabre15]

Hey Bigcypress, I am digging deeper and deeper into Captain R. I'll let you know what i find, i hope you will do the same. As we discussed, listening to Ivan and Mr. O, it may be where we don't want it to actually be. It may be worth the ride to go out to the Shark one day soon here. Also, let me know more info on the lighthouse lense in Ocala, I'll look into it while I am still here. Oh and Ivan, are Archies working those blockade runners in the Tampa river or can i take a look around?

 

[Oroblanco]

Hello again - just wanted to add a bit more. That book Bigcypresshunter graciously provided a link to includes a Union report of having captured stands of small arms, "contrabands" and in particular two "guerlllas" - it is quite possible that the capture of Capt Riley will be recorded in words just like that. He might have been taken as a "guerilla" or worse as a spy, but if in uniform I would expect they would not consider him a spy. Even in uniform he could be described as a guerilla however, and his name may not be listed. If he were alone or had only one or two men as escort, it is quite likely they could be taken for guerillas by Union forces happening on them or pursuing them.

Hopefully if you can find the report of his capture, it will mention about where he was caught - that would make a fair starting point for the search. Good luck amigos I hope you find the treasures that you seek.
Oroblanco

 

[Bigcypresshunter]

Hello again - just wanted to add a bit more. That book Bigcypresshunter graciously provided a link to includes a Union report of having captured stands of small arms, "contrabands" and in particular two "guerlllas" - it is quite possible that the capture of Capt Riley will be recorded in words just like that. He might have been taken as a "guerilla" or worse as a spy, but if in uniform I would expect they would not consider him a spy. Even in uniform he could be described as a guerilla however, and his name may not be listed. If he were alone or had only one or two men as escort, it is quite likely they could be taken for guerillas by Union forces happening on them or pursuing them.

Hopefully if you can find the report of his capture, it will mention about where he was caught - that would make a fair starting point for the search. Good luck amigos I hope you find the treasures that you seek.
Oroblanco

Thatswhat I need. A starting point. I remember reading that.

Hey Bigcypress, I am digging deeper and deeper into Captain R. I'll let you know what i find, i hope you will do the same. As we discussed, listening to Ivan and Mr. O, it may be where we don't want it to actually be. It may be worth the ride to go out to the Shark one day soon here. Also, let me know more info on the lighthouse lense in Ocala, I'll look into it while I am still here. Oh and Ivan, are Archies working those blockade runners in the Tampa river or can i take a look around?

Ive never been there... It wouldnt hurt to look around. That would need a small boat or two canoes.

 

[Bigcypresshunter]

Toward the end of the war almost all the Confederacys beef came from Florida. The cattlemen were exempt from the draft. I know it centered around Fort Meade. I know the Union burned it down. I just dont know for sure, I can only surmise if the legend of the buried, and then lost, gold is from blockade runners.

The legend has it buried in the deep swamp where nobody lived but escaped slaves and Indians. There would be no witnesses. If there was, they could not find it again.

That's the norm for a legend, right? Deep in the swamp where nobody lived yadda-yadda.

Boy you are a real killjoy. South Florida was extremely remote at the time. It still is in some parts. Very easy to get lost. There are whole forts out there from the Seminole War days that are lost and that is fact. A few have been found only recently. I dont have a problem with that particular part of the legend. The swamp is what it is. My friend found a fortification wall one day and brought back whats left of a flintlock. He never could find the location again. If I give up on this I can always search for the missing forts. Two that come to mind are Fort Harrel and Fort Westbrooke.

 

[ivan salis]

the scottish cheiften and kaly dale sites are "off limits" big time * ---state archies are working the site --sure one way ticket to jail --so the answer would be no you can't go "look" around those sites ----at least for right now once their done the state might turn it into a divers "go see a shipwreck" spot but not very likely I think (being the vessels were both burnt most likely not too much left I'm sure.)

one must have item for swamp hunting these days ---- a GPS unit !!!!!

and as far as deep in the swamp thing--yep its a great place for hiding things be it treasure or --- a out numbered / out manpowered rebel force that slips out and strikes from hiding and slides back into hiding more or less at will.--of course that is if your "crew" had folks that lived there and knew the swamp like the back of their hands (like the confederate commander JJ dickerson known as the "swamp fox" did) --- union troops of course having no local guides or knowledge stayed the heck out of the swamp be cause if they went in and their guide was killed or a rebel trickster there was a very good chance they would never get out -- I was born in new orleans and got "swamp kin" --trust me the swamp if your not ready for it will eat you alive and spit out your bones,(gators ,poison snakes and skeeters wit malaria , swamp fever,ect oh yah) and thatswithout local confederate loyal "swamp" folks lying in wait to kill you .

 

[Oroblanco]

Some interesting bits that support the idea of Davis, the cabinet members and the treasury trying to escape via Florida, like a mention of immediate concentration of warships at Key West to intercept any move by Davis and party by sea
http://cdl.library.cornell.edu/cgi-....edu/cgi-bin/moa/moa-cgi?notisid=ANU4547-0012

echoed in this report,
http://cdl.library.cornell.edu/cgi-...otisid=ANU4547-0022&coll=moa&frames=1&view=50
mentioning the rebel ram Stonewall as the ship likely to be the vessel Davis was hoping to reach.

we find Gen Stoneman doing his best to prevent the escape of Davis, as found in this report May 3, 1865
http://cdl.library.cornell.edu/cgi-....edu/cgi-bin/moa/moa-cgi?notisid=ANU4519-0104

this message from Gen Thomas mentions the value of treasure believed to be traveling with Davis as $6 or $8 MILLION

http://cdl.library.cornell.edu/cgi-...otisid=ANU4519-0104&coll=moa&frames=1&view=50

You can do the math about what that would truly be worth today, certainly much more than $6 or $8 million!
This also mentions that Davis might try to escape through Florida to Cuba, which is where the rebel ram mentioned above (the Stonewall) was - so did Davis have plans to escape to Cuba?

Some 15,000 cavalry were assigned to chase down and capture Jeff Davis, and a reward of $100,000 was offered for his capture. We know where Davis was captured

in Georgia, and the last place where the CSA treasury was recorded as being SEEN was in Georgia, but I have doubts that it ended up buried there especially considering the clues* we have of a plan for Davis and the cabinet to escape by sea, and that at least a portion of the gold had been promised to be returned (to France if memory serves) regardless of the outcome of the war.

*(not proven as yet but certainly supporting evidence in the movements of the Stonewall etc)*

I wonder if someone were to find this lost treasure, would the government of France step in to file suit against the treasure? Spain has been doing that sort of thing in recent years, and when treasure is involved nothing would surprise. This is a serious and real treasure amigos, which no one has found - YET!

Good luck and good hunting amigos, this is quite a fascinating thread you have here. I hope I have helped you at least a little bit.
your friend,
Roy ~ Oroblanco

 

[ivan salis]

since the money was at the time in question "offically" CSA funds * and the CSA later surrendered to the US GOVT * - the US GOVT by beating the CSA GOVT would I'm quite sure lay claim to it as "their" property (ie spoils of war from the rebel forces ) and any money given by foreign govts or people to the CSA would of course be forfieted as aid given to the rebelling forces.

note US GOVT money never stops being US GOVT money no matter how long its lost. (if an US GOVT treasury shipment of say 5 million in gold was lost on a shipwreck in 1820 and you found it ) guess what * -- its still --US GOVT MONEY. --too bad so sad, you can not claim squat .

so if any CSA gold or silver is found melt and sell it bit by bit , keeping your mouth shut about it -- or else lose it.

 

[ivan salis]

yep IF YOU tell the US GOVT THAT YOU FOUND BARS OF CSA GOLD , THEY WILL BE HISTORY --- COUNT ON IT ---if found by some poor smo running around going -- ok US GOVT yah here they are !!!! then us govt ( with no reward to them ) will simply move in taking it all -( US govt money they will say )-

then they will sock em away in fort knox with no one else ever seeing them again --- yep I can see that being very educational ( teach them to keep their big mouth shut), and public enlighting ( gee you don't get to keep anything after all), and great for historical research ( see heres a photograph of what they looked like)-- at best they might get a photo of the bars if they take one BEFORE the govt shows up to haul em away that is --- on something like this -- where its EITHER the US grubbermint or me getting them (and thus being rich)---- and with members of my family being csa soldiers of that time frame I think of it as my duty to "protect" that csa money from the yankees --- so you bet , on this one I'm a pirate.

 

[Bigcypresshunter]

This kind of ill advice is why non-detectorist think we rob, loot and deny others of historical information

true.