Swamp Gold

[Bigdogdad]

I have no bitterness with you. I hope everything works out for you. Sounds like an adventure. There may be advantages in having less material things to worry about. Things are happening with me on many fronts. Let's keep communicating one way or another. There is gold in the Everglades.

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[Bigcypresshunter]

I have no bitterness with you. I hope everything works out for you. Sounds like an adventure. There may be advantages in having less material things to worry about. Things are happening with me on many fronts. Let's keep communicating one way or another. There is gold in the Everglades.

sure communication is key

I still plan on living on my property someday but I cant fight city hall so for now Im going to the camper for 4 months. Everything else in storage.

[ECS]

There is gold in the Everglades.

That's what the south Florida oldtimers said,"There's a pot of gold beneath an Everglades cloud mountain".

[Bigdogdad]

ECS--Are you making that up? I really was told at the time, while standing at the spot, that it was called Cloud Mountain. The person telling me that was not a member of the tribe. He did tell me why he thought it was named Cloud Mountain.

[ECS]

ECS--Are you making that up? I really was told at the time, while standing at the spot, that it was called Cloud Mountain. The person telling me that was not a member of the tribe. He did tell me why he thought it was named Cloud Mountain.

No,I am not making that up.Since the first settlers in south Florida,cloud formations in the Everglades were refered to as "cloud mountains".Then the adage was born,a south Florida variation on the "pot of gold at the end of the rainbow".
Needless to say,on any given day,there are many cloud mountains in the Everglades in as many locations.

[Bigdogdad]

At this particular spot, which just happens to be the highest point around, Ovid showed me where he said gold was buried. It had nothing to do with clouds, stories, mountains, local legends, Indians, etc. His gold filled pendulum led us there because that's the way Ovid dowsed. Do you think maybe there is a reason that particular spot was called "Cloud Mountain" by the locals? Maybe it is because that's where the gold is. Keep in mind that I am not telling you or anyone else everything that I know about this location nor am I going to.

[ECS]

At this particular spot, which just happens to be the highest point around, Ovid showed me where he said gold was buried. It had nothing to do with clouds, stories, mountains, local legends, Indians, etc. His gold filled pendulum led us there because that's the way Ovid dowsed. Do you think maybe there is a reason that particular spot was called "Cloud Mountain" by the locals? Maybe it is because that's where the gold is. Keep in mind that I am not telling you or anyone else everything that I know about this location nor am I going to.

I would not expect you to.
...but it your earlier post about "cloud moutain" you did contain a story ,local legend,and an indian,did it not?
Cloud mountains are an aspect of south Florida folklore,as to why "locals" ( I believe in your original post there was only one local) refer to this sole location as the "official cloud mountain",I do not know.
After reading all the research evidence on this thread concerning the CSA TREASURY(assets,disbursements,captured by the Union) ,during and after the War of Northern Agression,do you still believe that a 1/2 ton of Confederate gold is under your cloud mountain?

[Bigdogdad]

I don't think I referred to it as the "offical" Cloud Mountain. When you are doing your research you are just repeating someone elses's "facts" as they were remembered and written. How accurate the records are is open to speculation and interpretation. I would take any information given to me no matter where it came from with a grain of salt. I have a friend who was constantly quoting Snopes.com for his facts. When I told him this is a husband/wife team working out of their house in a suburban California neighborhood and have stated misfacts on many occasions, he did not know what to say. All "facts" are apt to be a little off. We usually pick and choose "facts" that bolster our own side of an argument.

The only way I am going to convince "anyone" that there is a half a ton of gold at the location I refer to as Cloud Mountain will be to dig it up. I am working behind the scenes to do just that. I know I have mentioned in the past how much a half a ton of gold is but I will do it again. Hold your hands one foot apart. A square of solid gold that size will weigh over 1200 pounds. What is so hard to believe that amounts like that were in existence and may remain buried by the people that hid them?

In answer to your question about a 1/2 ton of Confederate gold being at this location, I beleive there is 1000 pounds or so of GOLD buried there. I don't know or care where it came from at this time. If it's there and I can dig it up, somebody else can figure who put it there. As I have already said, maybe a tribal member buried it there to keep it from the "white man". Maybe he was related to the Indian that held the ceremonies.

ECS-It's pretty obvious that you don't believe in the SWAMP GOLD legend. Too bad.

[ECS]

1-I don't think I referred to it as the "offical" Cloud Mountain. -
2-When you are doing your research you are just repeating someone elses's "facts" as they were remembered and written. How accurate the records are is open to speculation and interpretation. I would take any information given to me no matter where it came from with a grain of salt. All "facts" are apt to be a little off. We usually pick and choose "facts" that bolster our own side of an argument.



3- I beleive there is 1000 pounds or so of GOLD buried there. I don't know or care where it came from at this time. If it's there and I can dig it up, somebody else can figure who put it there. As I have already said, maybe a tribal member buried it there to keep it from the "white man". Maybe he was related to the Indian that held the ceremonies.

ECS-It's pretty obvious that you don't believe in the SWAMP GOLD legend. Too bad.

1-Considering the south Florida folklore about Everglades cloud mountains,for this location to have that name,it would have to be "official"Wouldn't you agree.
2-I,as many on TN have noticed,when the FACTS or HISTORICAL RECORDS don't agree with your version,then the facts are "apt to be a little off".
You do seem to pick and choose "facts" that bolster your side,but they all resort back to Ovid,some guy named Ralph,and a local who told you the tale of cloud mountain.
When I mention an event,I do include names,dates,and locations that CAN be researched by others.
3-If you don't know WHO put the gold there,then HOW do you expect the gold to be there in the first place?
Oh yes,I forgot,because of Ovid,some guy named Ralph,and a local who told you the tale of cloud mountain.
PS-Your reference to a friend and snopes.com is known as a STRAWMAN ARGUMENT-never valid as a rebuttal.

[Bigdogdad]

1. No it wouldn't have to be official. It might have to be official for you to be able to google it. It could have been a name given by locals and only known to locals. The only reason I brought it up was because a local said it while I was there.
2. My version of what. You think there is no gold. I think there is gold. Who is right? As far as the gold location you fail to mention the guys and their LRL, the Indian and his ceremonies. the fact that someone chose to name the location Cloud Mountain, which you yourself says means it could pertain to gold at this site. So what if you are repeating information that can be looked up;name locations etc? My story has no validity to you because you can't look it up? It now can be. It's all on TN and a soon to be released book. Now others will be able to research MY TREASURE STORY.
3.This is a STUPID question, and yes there is such a thing as a STUPID question.
4. The snopes mention was just to show an example that your FACTS are only as good as the source. It was not a rebuttal.

Why do me and my stories bother you so much? Do you think they are all lies? Are you jealous? Have you always been this way on TN? You read stories, I make stories happen.

[ECS]

JEALOUS,give me a break!
I never said CLOUD MOUNTAIN could pertain to gold-I quoted an old south Florida folklore tale.
If my facts are only as" good as the source",research them and prove me wrong.
Do you know what a STRAWMAN ARGUMENT is? You are very good at it.
"You read stories,I make stories happen"-now thats a good one! Your hubris is showing.

[Bigdogdad]

I WILL give you a break as you are definitley jealous.
The old south Florida folklore tale-"There's a pot of gold beaneath a Everglades Cloud mountain" Yeah what made me think that it could pertain to the location where I was shown the gold to be by an individual from North Carolina and then told that exact location was called Cloud Mountain by a person standing on it while we were there.
Yes I know what a Strawman Argument is, I am getting one from you. When you tell me something that you read written by somebody else and then make the claim that everything you quote is a "fact" I will again make the point, how do you know it is a FACT? Just because you found it on the internet while doing your "research". You just don't get it do you?
I am cocky. I am an alpha male. I am a real man. I am a TREASURE HUNTER. I wrote a book about MYTREASURESTORY.com. Oh I'm sorry is my hubris showing again. Let me put it away.

[ECS]

I WILL give you a break as you are definitley jealous.
You just don't get it do you?
I am cocky. I am an alpha male. I am a real man. I am a TREASURE HUNTER. I wrote a book about MYTREASURESTORY.com. Oh I'm sorry is my hubris showing again. Let me put it away.

PLEASE tell me of what and why I am jealous.
...of your self serving self evaluation ego glorifing rant?
Are you that deluded in your obession that causes you to go on the defensive when something or someone doesn't agree with your stories?

[vor]

B.C.H'tr:
u'll are alookin' fur the wrong treasure!
I know of one, (actually, TWO!) and It's (they) r a "biggie"! :P
In Fact!!!
It's Huge! :P
And! I duz mean HUGE!
Yep!
It's rat thar in Florreda TOO! (Both of them are!)
( If I were to mention the estimated value, you'd say I wuz a NUT! )
But!
They have actually, factual evidence as to information about them & thier worth !

At one time this thread was lighthearted and humorous.

[Bigdogdad]

VOR has a point. This fued is getting old. Okay ECS you win. There is no gold in the swamp. There is no silver in the swamp. There is no silver at the pirate camp as there is no pirate camp. Why should I bother looking or digging. According to you and your research none of it exists. I am done on this thread.

[ECS]

OK-FEUD FREE ZONE NOW EXISTS.

[ECS]

In doing further searches ,you have the PUNTA GORDA version.
Yes,there is Capt John Riley,but in this version he is transporting 600oz of gold bullion (about 50lbs troy)which seems to be a more reasonable amout for the times.
Yes,he was chashed by Union forces,and "dragged himself and the gold into a bog east of Punta Gorda".
Punta Gorda is located on Charlotte Harbour which was used by CSA blockade runners and the cattle trade,so some of this is plausible for the Capt John Riley Bless McIntosh of the legend.
The only Union post in that area of Florida was at Fort Meyers.Under Capt Henry A Crane many raids were sent out to stop the CSA cattle trade,gold was the main unit of purchase.This verifies that gold was in this area during this time.
Also ,Crane sanctioned Lt James D Green to raid,loot,and burn the homesteads of those involved in the CSA cattle trade (Tillis and Underhill),who buried their gold for sakekeeping.A plausible explanation for the "buried" gold of the legend.
Capt James McKay Sr was the CSA commissary agent (aka-paymaster) at Fort Meade,and the transactions between cattle crackers and blockade runners went through him.A plausible explanation for the "paymaster" version of the swamp gold legend.
April 7,1864,the Little Battle of Bowlegs Creek,when Crane sent a detachment to Fort Meade,driving them out,killing one of the CSA guerillas,and pursuing the others into the swamps.A plausible explanation for the "chased" part of the legend.
Almost ALL versions this legend seem to have appeared in the late 1940's.
Is it possible that stories,tales,and local lore based on actual events,evolved into this legend as it was passed down through the generations?
Could the original 50lbs of gold bullion grown to a 1/2 with telling?
Could the gold be a cache of a Union harassed homesteader or a cracker rancher,and NOT part of the CONFEDERATE TREASURY?
...and is deep in the Everglades a logical place for one to bury a cache of gold?

[Bigcypresshunter]

In doing further searches ,you have the PUNTA GORDA version.
Yes,there is Capt John Riley,but in this version he is transporting 600oz of gold bullion (about 50lbs troy)which seems to be a more reasonable amout for the times.
Yes,he was chashed by Union forces,and "dragged himself and the gold into a bog east of Punta Gorda".
Punta Gorda is located on Charlotte Harbour which was used by CSA blockade runners and the cattle trade,so some of this is plausible for the Capt John Riley Bless McIntosh of the legend.


The only Union post in that area of Florida was at Fort Meyers.Under Capt Henry A Crane many raids were sent out to stop the CSA cattle trade,gold was the main unit of purchase.This verifies that gold was in this area during this time.
Also ,Crane sanctioned Lt James D Green to raid,loot,and burn the homesteads of those involved in the CSA cattle trade (Tillis and Underhill),who buried their gold for sakekeeping.A plausible explanation for the "buried" gold of the legend.
Capt James McKay Sr was the CSA commissary agent (aka-paymaster) at Fort Meade,and the transactions between cattle crackers and blockade runners went through him.A plausible explanation for the "paymaster" version of the swamp gold legend.
April 7,1864,the Little Battle of Bowlegs Creek,when Crane sent a detachment to Fort Meade,driving them out,killing one of the CSA guerillas,and pursuing the others into the swamps.A plausible explanation for the "chased" part of the legend.
Almost ALL versions this legend seem to have appeared in the late 1940's.
Is it possible that stories,tales,and local lore based on actual events,evolved into this legend as it was passed down through the generations?
Could the original 50lbs of gold bullion grown to a 1/2 with telling?
Could the gold be a cache of a Union harassed homesteader or a cracker rancher,and NOT part of the CONFEDERATE TREASURY?
...and is deep in the Everglades a logical place for one to bury a cache of gold?

The existing Seminole Indian War trails do lead into the Everglades so yes it is logical and Punta Gorda is not very far away and was considered the North Everglades basin.

I was never concerned about the amount like you were. It would very easily be exagerrated over the years and yes I think 50 pounds of gold is more likely. Anyone that thinks there is 200 pounds or more is getting information from treasure mags.

In doing further searches ,you have the PUNTA GORDA version.
Yes,there is Capt John Riley,but in this version he is transporting 600oz of gold bullion (about 50lbs troy)which seems to be a more reasonable amout for the times.
Yes,he was chashed by Union forces,and "dragged himself and the gold into a bog east of Punta Gorda".

I have to ask where did you find this great information? In a 1940's newspaper?

[ECS]

The Punta Gorga version came from an old well worn paperback I found in a thrift store-"BURIED TREASURE IN THE US by the editors of TRUE MAGAZINE (1963).
The only concern I have about the gold amount,as I have stated,it is too much for that time period to be a part of the CSA treasury.
Now,50lbs of gold in 1864-1865 would be about $12000.00,or the value of about 400 head of cattle,as reason for the gold to be there during this time period.
Yes,this is speculation on my part.

[Bigcypresshunter]

The Punta Gorga version came from an old well worn paperback I found in a thrift store-"BURIED TREASURE IN THE US by the editors of TRUE MAGAZINE (1963).
The only concern I have about the gold amount,as I have stated,it is too much for that time period to be a part of the CSA treasury.
Now,50lbs of gold in 1864-1865 would be about $12000.00,or the value of about 400 head of cattle,as reason for the gold to be there during this time period.
Yes,this is speculation on my part.

Wow that would really be cool to see a picture of that. That is the best version I have heard. I wonder if there is any truth to it. Go back to post one and it says $200,000 in gold but thats probably 196o's prices..