JESUIT TREASURES - ARE THEY REAL?

[Real de Tayopa Tropical Tramp]

G'd morning Deducer, coffee? I repeat again, one must differentiate between the lowly, expendable mission Jesuit and the ones from Rome who were more directly being employed to further Romes' finances. Money was power to advance your particular interpretation of the written word.

When one assumes that he has correctly interpreted the Lords' word via the Bible, then anything required to teach it or too advance it, was acceptable, regardless of any other agreement.

Don Jose de La Mancha

 

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[cactusjumper]

G'd morning Deducer, coffee? I repeat again, one must differentiate between the lowly, expendable mission Jesuit and the ones from Rome who were more directly being employed to further Romes' finances. Money was power to advance your particular interpretation of the written word.

When one assumes that he has correctly interpreted the Lords' word via the Bible, then anything required to teach it or too advance it, was acceptable, regardless of any other agreement.

Don Jose de La Mancha

Don Jose,

Are you now saying that the mission Jesuits were not the ones, for the most part, involved in mining in Mexico?

Take care,

Joe

 

[Oroblanco]

Cactusjumper wrote

Don Jose,

Are you now saying that the mission Jesuits were not the ones, for the most part, involved in mining in Mexico?

I believe that has always been his position, that the mining was handled exclusively and separately by the Coadjutors rather than the padres, which is probably somewhat true, as they were responsible for the "temporal" aspects of the mission, however I would point out to Don Jose that ALL business concerns of all missions were the full responsibility, and under full authority of, the padres themselves. So while the padre might not be standing as overseer at the mines, he had full control over the operation and financial aspects of it. Remember, Coadjutors were fully under the "command" of the padres at the missions, they were not independent operators.

Good luck and good hunting amigos I hope you find the treasures that you seek.
Oroblanco

 

[cactusjumper]

Cactusjumper wrote


I believe that has always been his position, that the mining was handled exclusively and separately by the Coadjutors rather than the padres, which is probably somewhat true, as they were responsible for the "temporal" aspects of the mission, however I would point out to Don Jose that ALL business concerns of all missions were the full responsibility, and under full authority of, the padres themselves. So while the padre might not be standing as overseer at the mines, he had full control over the operation and financial aspects of it. Remember, Coadjutors were fully under the "command" of the padres at the missions, they were not independent operators.

Good luck and good hunting amigos I hope you find the treasures that you seek.
Oroblanco

Roy,

As you have just pointed out, that position is illogical and unlikely.

Take care,

Joe

 

[sailaway]

There have been many post about use of tools for measurement here is a link for use of a sextant by power and sail squadron.
http://www.thepirateking.com/images/How_to_use_a_sextant.pdf

 

[deducer]

G'd morning Deducer, coffee? I repeat again, one must differentiate between the lowly, expendable mission Jesuit and the ones from Rome who were more directly being employed to further Romes' finances. Money was power to advance your particular interpretation of the written word.

How do you know this for certain?

I am working off the hypothesis that what the Jesuits did, they did in accordance with Loyola's visions of how a church should be adorned. I haven't been presented with proof that what they did was to add to Rome's coffers. If anything, my impression is that the Jesuits were first and foremost betrothed to their organization, over anything and anyone else, even the pope.

 

[sailaway]

Did the Jesuits write in Ciphers and Symbols?
Over and over again, Robert Cochrane stressed themes closest to his heart, those of Heritage, blood, Virtue and Fate, especially Fate !“ All mystical thought is based upon one major premise: the realization of Truth as opposed to Illusion……… The Faith is finally concerned with Truth, total Truth. It is one of the oldest religions, and also one of the most potent, bringing as it does, Man into contact with Gods, and Man into contact with Self.” [ref: ‘The Faith of the Wise’ in ‘Roebuck in the Thicket’, pp55-56]
Ciphers & Symbols

This all relates back to the Clan of Tubal Cain (look at the link) and seems that it all goes back to the hidden Golden Dart and Alloy Sword. Everything I find revolves around the snake and heart, which incidentally is in the picture of the Mina Virgon.

 

[markmar]

Oroblanco

You wrote : " Mr. Kemm seems to have lost interest in the Lost Dutchman, perhaps from not being able to convince people that he found it by the use of satellite photos without actually checking his location in person."

From all who have claimed to found the LDM , I believe Mr. Kemm's place is the nearest . His mistakes were how he ignored some clues and maps , and of course didn't check it before .
The hat off for Mr. Kemm .

 

[cactusjumper]

Marius,

Yes, we are all impressed by Mr. Kemm. Very observant of you.

Joe Ribaudo

 

[markmar]

Marius,

Yes, we are all impressed by Mr. Kemm. Very observant of you.

Joe Ribaudo

Joe

The matter is the result . I am willing to accept any observation and comparison between me and Mr. Kemm .

 

[cactusjumper]

Joe

The matter is the result . I am willing to accept any observation and comparison between me and Mr. Kemm .

Marius,

"Any" comparison?

Joe Ribaudo

 

[Oroblanco]

Oroblanco

You wrote : " Mr. Kemm seems to have lost interest in the Lost Dutchman, perhaps from not being able to convince people that he found it by the use of satellite photos without actually checking his location in person."

From all who have claimed to found the LDM , I believe Mr. Kemm's place is the nearest . His mistakes were how he ignored some clues and maps , and of course didn't check it before .
The hat off for Mr. Kemm .

Marius you were not present when we were discussing Mr Kemm's claimed discoveries, so perhaps did not catch his deceptions or rather, attempted deceptions. We are drifting far off topic however that said, with any legendary lost mine, to convince people that one has found it, it only makes sense to show some solid evidence like silver/silver ore to prove a silver mine, gold/gold ore to prove a gold mine, or failing this, at least photos of the vein of ore still in place in the rock, would go a long way to settle the issue. Not that we (or just myself) are trying to be hard-nosed about this, just that SO many different people have claimed to have found the Lost Dutchman, Lost Adams, etc often just from looking at satellite photos and/or aerial imagery, solving various "clues" or the Stone Maps or another treasure map which has been in public circulation for fifty years and they are all talking about a different place - without every providing any evidence of actually finding GOLD, or silver, the ore vein in place etc.

A very few have then gone to the spot they picked out from photos and found nothing there but an empty hole - our amigo Blindbowman being among this small group and to his credit, he came back and told us the fact.

Another issue with Kemm and several others whom have made much the same claims, is that if they have indeed found this legendary lost mine, why then does he (or they) not go out to the mine themselves, and get some gold, or at least get the solid evidence to make a case to the Forest Service in order to start the ball rolling for obtaining a permit, or at least an official refusal which may acknowledge that it IS the lost mine? But no, these people will not go there themselves, but want us, the readers to go there! Why should I go there if he is not willing to go himself? Sending a fellow on a wild goose chase might be funny for some people, but I do not view it that way. I believe many others here view this the same way - why go to some place chosen by a stranger on the internet, when that stranger is not willing to go there himself? If I said to you, I know exactly where the Lost Dutchman mine is, provide you with GPS coordinates and Google Earth photos, BUT I will NOT go with you? Would you go? Is that being unreasonable, to ask to see substantial proof in the form of gold/ore/vein-in-place?

Sorry for the off-topic post, I am sure Mr Kemm would wish to thank Marius for his kind words and I do not wish to "attack" Mr Kemm, just explaining the reasons why his claims were not accepted by everyone. I suspect that he became disillusioned with us for that reason. Personally I do not think it is outrageous nor ridiculous to ask someone to show proof of having found a lost mine, as in the form of gold, the gold vein or silver as the case may be, otherwise we must congratulate hundreds of people who may or may not have found anything more than an interesting piece of geography.

Good luck and good hunting amigos, I hope you find the treasures that you seek.
Oroblanco

 

[cactusjumper]

Roy,

I liked bb, when we finally met face to face at the Rendezvous. I find that to often be the case.

After being close to these mountains and stories for so many years, believe I have picked up a little knowledge if only through osmosis. When we brought out a topo, I immediately put my finger on the spot bb was going to. I believe his jaw dropped at that. It was an old Chuck Crawford dig.

Take care,

Joe

 

[ConceptualizedNetherlandr]

Roy,

I liked bb, when we finally met face to face at the Rendezvous. I find that to often be the case.

After being close to these mountains and stories for so many years, believe I have picked up a little knowledge if only through osmosis. When we brought out a topo, I immediately put my finger on the spot bb was going to. I believe his jaw dropped at that. It was an old Chuck Crawford dig.

Take care,

Joe

Us noobs don't know these places. Can you hook us up with coordinates so we can gawk on the googles? Whee is Kemms place?
Thanks!

 

[Real de Tayopa Tropical Tramp]

Allo mi compadre Oro, May I ask were the coadjutors under any 'obligation' to report their activities to a lowly mission priest??

To them the coadjutors were simply other Spanish miners or whatever they were involved in.

The old "Need to know" factor.

Don Jose de La Mancha

 

[Real de Tayopa Tropical Tramp]

Hola my sheep herding Amigo, Oro: The jesuits were excellent cartographers. In the case of Tayopa the surrounding area is above the Tayopa zone so they were in effect able to give an accurate aerial view, which rhey did.

I still marvel how they were able to be sooo accurate, yet manage to divert users of the map 's attention far away.

That took class.

As for the supers There is actually no ocmparison, or is there ??

Don Jose de La Mancha

 

[Real de Tayopa Tropical Tramp]

Joe feed him some Jon Boles first !

Don Jose de La Mancha

 

[sailaway]

The Snake Revealed
In 1733 The first American Masonic Lodge is opened.
To understand the Illuminati, we must understand two specific institutions - the Freemasons and the Catholic authorities.
The Illuminati are, for many, the “Men in Black,” the silent masters in the background who plot our futures. (sound Familiar?) It has been said of the Jesuits that they were the world’s largest and most powerful secret service - due mainly to the fact that they were feared by many in the Catholic Church. The Jesuits have hundreds of links with the Masonic Order and Templar symbols. Through associations with the Freemasons, the Jesuits managed to get information from and influence to the Freemasons of the globe.

M.F. Cusack wrote:The Jesuits laugh at us; and during their hilarity, the rattlesnake is coiled at our feet, climbing to strike us in the heart.
The Forbidden Knowledge of Secret Societies - 14
It was fabled that serpent-linked Naga’s escaped their country and took this deep and seemingly, architectural, wisdom abroad. This linking of the esoteric and underlying principles of self-illumination manifested here in architectural symbolism eventually gave rise to modern Freemasonry.
The Serpent and the Real Origins of Freemasonry
Arkon Daraul says in Secret Societies:
Coincidences of date and beliefs connect these Bavarian Illuminati with the Afghan ones, and also with the other cults which called themselves “illuminated.” The beginning of the seventeenth century saw the foundation of the Illuminated Ones of Spain - the Alumbrados, condemned in an edict of the Grand Inquisition in 1623. In 1654 the “Illuminated” Guerinets came into public notice in France.

 

[markmar]

Roy

You are right . pictures of the gold bars or gold vein are the best evidences . But is not stupid to show pictures like these from a spot which is in a potecred land ? These pictures are evidences of an outlaw work and could exist consequences . Is worth to take the risk ? Would you have posted them ? A smart person , never take pictures of an outlaw work which could be used against him . What happened if in your return a forest ranger have checked your photos ?

Now , I don't say how I am/was outlaw , just explain .

 

[sailaway]

Oroblanco stated: why then does he (or they) not go out to the mine themselves, and get some gold, or at least get the solid evidence to make a case to the Forest Service in order to start the ball rolling for obtaining a permit

Mining claims are not allowed in the National Wilderness Preservation System areas. If that was not the case I would be mining right now and you would never have heard of me, I would have been as silent as could be and walked my gold out. You can not sell the gold collected in the wilderness area, nor get it assayed, as the only assayers offices are the Federal Mints, (N.Y., Denver, Sacramento, etc.) I had the documents prepared for the Bureau of Mines, Bureau of Land Management and the Forest Service with the exact location of township, range and mining district. I have these documents and was prepared to file them. I even had the documents for Notice of Intent for exploration of Federal lands with the expiration date of Aug. 31, 2013 for minerals for the area. It would have been so much better to be mining than talking about it. I went to my area to check it out in person (I took photos) and to file claims of location. The mine is marked with a monument so everything was in place to file my location claim in the county. and then with the Federal Government.
Energy
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Gold of the Mina Virgon