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Thread: Tumacacori Mission Mines RE: Sister Micaela Molina Document

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  1. #16
    us
    Feb 2006
    AZ
    Polygragh and if needed sodium P
    368

    Re: Tumacacori Mission Mines RE: Sister Micaela Molina Document


  2. #17
    us
    Feb 2006
    AZ
    Polygragh and if needed sodium P
    368

    Re: Tumacacori Mission Mines RE: Sister Micaela Molina Document

    Ah BB I have that issue too , less than an hours drive from Tucson
    R U in the AZ
    I know a dowser who is searching for the area , I hear they missed some stuff there
    Best
    Buddy

  3. #18
    us
    Feb 2006
    AZ
    Polygragh and if needed sodium P
    368

    Re: Tumacacori Mission Mines RE: Sister Micaela Molina Document


  4. #19
    us
    Feb 2006
    AZ
    Polygragh and if needed sodium P
    368

    Re: Tumacacori Mission Mines RE: Sister Micaela Molina Document

    The author is the National Park Service. The guy who has spent all the money thinks the NPS is lying about the document to keep other TH'ers out of the area.
    The "NPS" nazi's are nothing but a bunch of liars lol always have been seems that they write their own history books - Mike
    Buddy
    ps your avatars are a real crack up!!!

    http://www.nps.gov/tuma/bogus.htm


  5. #20
    Charter Member
    om
    Jan 2006
    SoCal
    Modded SD2000 / XTerra70 / Fisher Gemini /
    4,108
    755 times
    All Types Of Treasure Hunting

    Re: Tumacacori Mission Mines RE: Sister Micaela Molina Document

    HEY REALDE!!!

    We're still waiting for that more correct translation of the document! What's up?

    Mike
    Check out 1ORO1.COM

  6. #21
    mx
    Nov 2004
    Alamos,Sonora,Mexico
    10,774
    1583 times

    Re: Tumacacori Mission Mines RE: Sister Micaela Molina Document

    Been goofing off , actually doing the taxes, sheesh, this year they want $10,000 US dollars for the ''Tayopa" mines, plus I have 3 other mines also, sniff. sniff


    Black beard, Gallum, etc., do you live near Tucson?

    Tropical Tramp
    "I exist to live, not live to exist"

  7. #22
    Charter Member
    om
    Jan 2006
    SoCal
    Modded SD2000 / XTerra70 / Fisher Gemini /
    4,108
    755 times
    All Types Of Treasure Hunting

    Re: Tumacacori Mission Mines RE: Sister Micaela Molina Document

    I believe BlackBeard lives near there. I live in Southern California (about a days drive).

    Mike
    Check out 1ORO1.COM

  8. #23
    mx
    Nov 2004
    Alamos,Sonora,Mexico
    10,774
    1583 times

    Re: Tumacacori Mission Mines RE: Sister Micaela Molina Document

    Sheeh Gollum, I don't see my data on the Molina Map in here ??

    My computer as been acting up a bit?

    So, sigh, I will redo it since it was wiped after I was through sending it - lesson learned.

    Tropical Tramp
    "I exist to live, not live to exist"

  9. #24
    Charter Member
    om
    Jan 2006
    SoCal
    Modded SD2000 / XTerra70 / Fisher Gemini /
    4,108
    755 times
    All Types Of Treasure Hunting

    Re: Tumacacori Mission Mines RE: Sister Micaela Molina Document

    No Problemo Jose,

    Just Git'R'Done!

    Mike
    Check out 1ORO1.COM

  10. #25
    mx
    Nov 2004
    Alamos,Sonora,Mexico
    10,774
    1583 times

    Re: Tumacacori Mission Mines RE: Sister Micaela Molina Document

    Gollum,k, sheesh, will do so if you stop knocking me into the cold water.

    Tropical Tramp
    "I exist to live, not live to exist"

  11. #26
    Charter Member
    om
    Jan 2006
    SoCal
    Modded SD2000 / XTerra70 / Fisher Gemini /
    4,108
    755 times
    All Types Of Treasure Hunting

    Re: Tumacacori Mission Mines RE: Sister Micaela Molina Document

    DOUBLE-TIIIIIIIIIME, HAAAAAAAAAAARCH!
    Mike
    Check out 1ORO1.COM

  12. #27

    Mar 2003
    260
    110 times

    Re: Tumacacori Mission Mines RE: Sister Micaela Molina Document

    John Mitchell admitted that his story of Carreta Canyon was a work of fiction. The story of a cowboy spotting an iron door makes the reader want to believe this tale, but it was a literary invention. Many of the stories in the two treasure books he published were fictional stories. Several of the stories were based on the mines that are listed in the Molina document.

    The Molina Derroterro is not the original source of the contained information. The original source document was constructed and written differently, and contained information not included in the Molina. A possible source document may have been authorized by a man named Ortiz. There were many copies of the Molina, and they were not exactly the same. The one owned by Gil Proctor of the Pete Kitchen Ranch in Nogales was different from the copy owned by Milton F. Rose. Gil Proctor may have obtained his copy from Juan Bustamente, an old Indian miner from the Nogales area. Rose did not say where he got his copy. Rose did say that he had loaned his copy with the map to Mitchell when he was writing his first book.

    There has been a lot of speculation about the Molina document. Some have said that it was the waybill owned by General Conde. There was an exploration party out of Mexico City about 1813 that used the Molina, or a similar document, as a guide to find some of the old Spanish mines near Tumacacori. The mine the exploration party was most interested in locating was the Old Sopori. The mine shaft a short distance south of the old Sopori Ranch is not the location of the Old Sopori Mine. The Old Sopori could have been the Cerro Colorado, or across the valley to the west, or it could have been the mine that has been known as the Tumacacori Mine.

    I have some theories of my own. I think the map is an actual treasure map for the Virgin de Guadalupe/Tumacacori Mine. I believe this because there have been at least three bullion recoveries at or near the Tumacacori Mine. For anyone that is familiar with the area, the description of the mine locations in the Molina don't agree with the actual geography west of the mission. The Molina directions do fit some of the antiqua mines found in the rich load areas east of the St Cruz River. On some of the old maps there are references to more than one San Roman Spring. It is very likely that the Molina was written to be sold, or to be used as a vehicle for raising money for a mining expedition.

    The map is easy enough to understand. It is really three maps in one. It shows the general area with relative distances to other mines, it shows a map of the immediate area of the mine, and it shows a layout of the caches that were made outside the mine. The enormous tailing pile in front of the old mine is proof that the mine was worked by many people for many years. It could be that the mine was played out and the use was changed to a depository for bullion from other mine locations.

    Gary Don Oliver still has rights to the Tumacacori Mine site. He thinks he may have located the entrance to the main shaft. He still has hopes to open the tunnel and see if there is anything inside. He has spent most of his adult life on this project. I wish him good luck!

  13. #28
    Cptbil

    Mar 2003
    Az/NM/Ca/Nv/Tx
    1,402
    10 times

    Re: Tumacacori Mission Mines RE: Sister Micaela Molina Document

    Well!
    All I know is that the Mines, as shown on the map
    ARE!
    In the exact position as shown!

    How do I know...
    Tell you what, I will not try to convince anyone ...
    As you all know,
    Arguing is usless :P
    But!
    What I will do...
    Is to SHOW Anyone!
    All three of mines ...
    Virgin of Guadalupe, Opatas, and The Pure Conception Mine !
    Now!
    Argue with THAT!
    CptBil & Bugs

  14. #29
    um
    Nemo me impune lacesset

    Jan 2005
    DAKOTA TERRITORY
    Tesoro Lobo Supertraq, (95%) Garrett Scorpion (5%)
    5,587
    1363 times

    Re: Tumacacori Mission Mines RE: Sister Micaela Molina Document

    Cptbil wrote:
    But!
    What I will do...
    Is to SHOW Anyone!
    All three of mines ...
    Virgin of Guadalupe, Opatas, and The Pure Conception Mine !

    Now!
    Argue with THAT!
    Okay I will "bite" - so you have found three holes in the ground, located precisely in the locations indicated from the Molina document - how can you be SURE that they are indeed MINES and not just some old prospect holes dug by an earlier treasure hunter, who followed the directions from the Molina Document, and dug in the spots where he (or she) believed the mine was hidden? The only reason I mention this is because this is the case in the Superstitions all too often, someone finds an old prospect hole dug by an earlier Dutch-hunter, the spot "seems" to fit with the maps or clues *(or both) so the finder believes he or she has found the Lost Dutchman, and yet there is NO GOLD to prove it beyond doubt.

    To prove that you have found:
    Virgin of Guadalupe

    would require that you bring out some loads of silver, which are supposed to be stashed there;

    to prove that you found:
    the Opata silver mine

    you would need to bring out some very rich silver ore, perhaps some native silver;

    to prove that you have found:
    The Pure Conception Mine

    You might want to bring out some loads of the ore, which was assayed as being four-fifths silver and one-fifth gold, and according to two sources, there are at least thirty TONS of the rich ore already dug out and bagged in (now rotted) leather bags, stacked inside the mine.


    Now I am NOT saying that you have not indeed found the mines you have named, it is entirely possible; however photos will not do the job to "prove" that you have found the actual MINES and NOT some old prospect holes dug by earlier treasure hunters, it is necessary that you bring out some of the actual ores, silver and/or gold. NO ONE would or should then have ANY DOUBTS.

    Good luck and good hunting mi amigo, I hope you find the treasures that you seek.
    your friend,
    Roy ~ Oroblanco
    SUPPORT THE BEEF INDUSTRY - EAT BEEF
    "We must find a way, or we will make one."--Hannibal Barca

  15. #30

    Aug 2005
    121

    Re: Tumacacori Mission Mines RE: Sister Micaela Molina Document

    Good post Oro.

    I was going to point out the same thing.

    Who is to say that someone else did not have/use a copy of the same map in the distant past.

    They found no tunnels "where they were suppose to be as indicated by the map". So they dug exploritory holes/tunnels. In an attempt to find an ore vein.

    After that, said holes/tunnels would always be exactly where they "were suppose" to be when you compare their location to a copy of said map.




 

 
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