Which Are the Most Credible Lost/Hidden Gold Sites?

[Springfield]

I, for one, will but I have a pretty big hangup with the physical possibility of a sub navigating a river, specifically the Colorado, to the Hoover Dam. ....

I agree. Submarine to the north end of the Sea of Cortez, then a land trek to the dam - feasible. Submarine up the Colorado River to the dam - absurd.

Keep it between the lines folks, or the baby (if it exists) is likely to be thrown out with the bathwater.

 

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[pippinwhitepaws]

ok...german naval crews were imprisoned at the papago buttes pow camp...they gained a map of the "rivers" in Arizona...a great escape was planned an excuted....

but...some people, like the Nazi POW's believed a map showing a river...ment water....
most of the POW turned themselves back into the camp within days...one man stayed out three weeks...a couple arrested at the bus depot in phx...

there were Nazi general staff offices in Arizona/new mexico prior to WWII...to visit the reservation systems...to polish how to deal with large unwanted populations...chilling eh?

 

[Springfield]

well..then I am wasting time here...thank you.
good to hear it never happened.

Sorry to question your authority. All I asked (twice) was for you to provide a modicum of support for your claim.

 

[Springfield]

Let's not forget the World Wide archaeological hunt the Nazis were on - replete with occult overtones ...

Hmm. No telling where this may lead.

 

[Springfield]

ok...german naval crews were imprisoned at the papago buttes pow camp...they gained a map of the "rivers" in Arizona...a great escape was planned an excuted....

The German POW's in AZ & NM is a real interesting subject. There were a bunch quartered at Fort Bayard, NM, where they constructed many of the improvements on the grounds, including in the National Cemetery onsite. They were housed in minimum security quarters and frequently visited citizens throughout the nearby mining district towns for dinner, odd jobs, social events, etc. Many requested to be able to stay in the area after the war since they had developed strong relationships in the community, but were eventually shipped back to Europe. Some of the NM locals later attempted to sponsor immigration requests so that some of the Germans could return, but I don't believe any were successful.

 

[pippinwhitepaws]

U-boat's mercury posing threat | The Japan Times

 

[pippinwhitepaws]

bad camping spot...real bad...sorry...suicidal camping spot.

 

[Real de Tayopa Tropical Tramp]

Sc mi compadre, coffee? Sorry to have to report it, but most missions or churches were constructed of Adobe bricks or stone. not very flammable, of course the rafters etc. were, but setting them ablaze would be quite a problem. This is why in many cases, they retreated to the church as a last ditch holdout. May I suggest an elegant example, "El Alamo" .

Don Jose de La Mancha

p.s. The first were of branches and straw, but as soon as the basic permanent structure of Adobe was finished, the services were moved inside.

 

[Real de Tayopa Tropical Tramp]

Well gentlemen, we have a prime case of discussing a subject without reading the prior posts.

A) It was proposed that it would be built in three sections, each capable of being moved by truck overland to "ABOVE" the dam, reassembled, then on down to the intakes, where the explosives would be placed. It was not speculated if it was to be remotely maneuvered or manned by a suicide crew. There was no plan to broach the dam itself.

I was in close contact with German sub commanders at that time, all were interested in solving the prob of my sub. It's identity has never been solved since diving permits from the appropriate Mexican dept were impossible to secure. My first contact with gov. authorities, and you wonder why I am sooo cautious with Tayopa?

I was informed that many locations of submarines were incorrect for securtiy purposes and as well as sabotage / secrecy. At the end of the war all were accounted for except 5, they are still missing, so were presumably on a secret mission or under dual identification, possibly scuttled and the crew melting into the native population..

Here are a few pages on the initial search for the larger submarine.

Side thingy, Baja California had many B-24 bases for training sub patrols as well as actual patrols, so much for their efficiency.




Don Jose de La Mancha

 

[Springfield]

....Hmm ... 33 ... surveying ...

arizona

Coincidence? Perhaps. Perhaps not ...

I'm not following here. What coincidence are you pointing out?

 

[Real de Tayopa Tropical Tramp]

G'morning NB: coffee? You posted --> well, just how much explosives could a sub like that carry to do any real damage?
~~~~~~~~~~~~~

the British turned to the newly designed X Craft midget submarines. The planned attack, Operation Source, included attacks on Tirpitz, Scharnhorst, and Lützow. The X Craft were - towed by large submarines to their destinations - where they could slip under anti-torpedo nets to each drop - two powerful 2 tonne mines - on the sea bed under the bottom of the target.

The mines caused extensive damage to the ship; the first exploded abreast of turret Caesar and the second detonated 45 to 55 m (148 to 180 ft) off the port bow. A fuel oil tank was ruptured, shell plating was torn, a large indentation was formed in the bottom of the ship and bulkheads in the double bottom buckled. Some 1,430 t (1,410 long tons; 1,580 short tons) of water flooded the ship in fuel tanks and void spaces in the double bottom of the port side, which caused a list of one to two degrees, which was balanced by counter-flooding on the starboard side. The flooding damaged all of the turbo-generators in generator room No. 2, and all apart from one generator in generator room No. 1 were disabled by broken steam lines or severed power cables. Turret Dora was thrown from its bearings and could not be rotated; this was particularly significant, as there were no heavy-lift cranes in Norway powerful enough to lift the turret and place it back on its bearings. The ship's two Arado Ar 196 floatplanes were thrown by the explosive concussion and completely destroyed. Repairs were conducted by the repair ship Neumark; historians Robert Garzke and Robert Dulin remarked that the successful repair effort was "one of the most notable feats of naval engineering during the Second World War." Repairs lasted until 2 April 1944; full speed trials were scheduled for the following day in Altafjord.


The bouncing bombs were considerably larger, --> its overall weight was 9,250 pounds (4,196 kg), of which 6,600 pounds (2,994 kg) was Torpex.

So it IS feasible, practical is another matter. Just remember, it was not with,the intention of broaching the dam itself, but destroying it's generating system, effectively the same.

Don Jose de La Mancha

 

[pippinwhitepaws]

Brief History of Spanish Mission in Florida


"The Forth Mission Era Period, 1656 1702, offers the most documentation to date. Should Cuba ever allow a more thorough investigation of its archives we will likely find more information on earlier mission efforts. The second half of this period, beginning in 1680, saw mounting pressure from the English colonists in South Carolina and the natives allied with them. That pressure destroyed all of the surviving missions between 1680-1706. Mission populations were killed, carried off, or escaped to St. Augustine area missions and the protection of the Spanish. Though the Spain held St. Augustine until 1763, English advances and the destruction of missions virtually ended all missionary activity by 1706. "


perhaps I should not have said churchs or burned...
missions an destroyed...correct terms...missions came in three type...religious, political, military.


could this undersea boat be a Japanese craft?

 

[Springfield]

In the spirit of this thread, I'd say any German schemes to damage North American targets during WWII is moot. I'm sure Germany and Japan had all sorts of ideas at the time, but the results speak for themselves.

Regarding possible German gold in the Southwest, it's an open question of sorts, in that the idea is feasible in two regards: 1) a US/German agreement to salvage Nazi gold from Europe and transfer it to NA when WWII's outcome became apparent; 2) illegal US military spoils. No. 1 could conceivably use subs in the Sea of Cortex to deliver bullion for a ground transport to inland sites. This remote landing point seems as if it would be more secure than a west coast transfer.

 

[pippinwhitepaws]

http://colonialseminar.uga.edu/Sensbach Essay.pdf

 

[Springfield]

http://colonialseminar.uga.edu/Sensbach Essay.pdf

This is about the British Colonists resisting Spanish encroachment into their southern regions. It culminated with the Seven Years War. Yes, many Spanish missions were destroyed over a period of several generations - many of the perpetrators being indigenous natives in addition to the British interests. The French got some ass-kicking too in the east coast regions.

This happened a couple thousand miles east of the American Southwest - a world apart for all practical purposes. I don't see how this is pertinent to the claims you made earlier about an expunged Arizona history or an Anglo ravaging of Hispanic churches in New Mexico.

 

[Springfield]

.... it is not a good idea to do, in general and not without thought and knowledge to where you are, the time of year, the specifics of the particular drainage you are in, etc.

Venturing into the natural world is always a calculated risk. We hedge our odds by choosing our times and places. Death Valley hike in June? No, I'd wait till winter. Swimming Hawaii's north shores in January? Better off waiting till Summer. Camping in Southwest canyons during monsoons? No, but dry periods are just fine. Your photos looked like a lot of clear blue skies.

 

[pippinwhitepaws]

flash flood danger is a reality, not mythology.

 

[pippinwhitepaws]

clearly some people don't have the foundation to understand Spanish occupation of the Americas, nor the methods used to remove the Spanish from the occupied lands.
while the black legend is somewhat mythological...facts abound.
in a few hundred years, some people will claim the KKK never burned churchs or hung people just because the color of their skin was different.
just like the holocaust deniers....never happened...where's the proof.
i'm done.

http://www.houstonculture.org/spanish/missions.html

 

[Real de Tayopa Tropical Tramp]

G'morning: For those that do not know what a flash flood is, here is one that swept through our Town about 01:00 in the mornig, a number of people were killed and many cars were destroyed. In the street picture notice the water level mark on the wall, approx 7 ft. A no of people were trapped in their homes and drowned, naturally there was no electricity or light to find their way out, and they panicked.

I was almost caught myself once, while on the trail, I camped in a narrow canyon some 25 ft above the high mark, yet when it hit I had barely enough time to gather 'most' of my stuff and head for high ground.

It was wet cold sleeping that long night.

Don Jose de La Mancha

 

[Springfield]

clearly some people don't have the foundation to understand Spanish occupation of the Americas, nor the methods used to remove the Spanish from the occupied lands.
while the black legend is somewhat mythological...facts abound.
in a few hundred years, some people will claim the KKK never burned churchs or hung people just because the color of their skin was different.
just like the holocaust deniers....never happened...where's the proof.
i'm done.

Houston Institute for Culture - Spanish Missions in Texas

Let's see .... fourth request. Please show me examples of white settlers burning the churches of established Hispanic settlements in the Rio Grande Valley, thus destroying the basis of their history, genealogy, land claims and cultural toeholds in North America. So far you've answered: 1) My word is good enough for it; 2) It was the British who drove the Spanish out of Florida; 3) and a history of Spanish missionaries who tried to tame the natives in Texas. Now we're into the KKK and the European holocaust.