Looking for other treasure legends...

[cptbil]

In my humble opinion...
Anyone who "swerves from the truth" once, is more than likely to do it more times!
AND! Besides ....
This guy was a Jesuit Priest himself! (Supposely above reproach/honest?)
My magazine article, page 47, Ariz Hiways, Sep. '95
says:

"Charles Polzer (a Jesuit) "went to great lenghts to debunk myths of Jesuit treasures!"

 

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[cactusjumper]

Bill,

"In my humble opinion...
Anyone who "swerves from the truth" once, is more than likely to do it more times!"

Can you tell us the reliable source or evidence that Father Polzer lied?

Thanks,

Joe

 

[gollum]

Bill,

"In my humble opinion...
Anyone who "swerves from the truth" once, is more than likely to do it more times!"

Can you tell us the reliable source or evidence that Father Polzer lied?

Thanks,

Joe

I would recommend a quick trip to the History Hunters Forums, and check out Wopper's thread about the Jesuits. Lots of scans of period books that prove Jesuits were often less than honest about their dealings (i.e. owning slaves). There are also numerous period quotes regarding little things like descriptions of solid silver railings in one "poor" Jesuit Mission, and many more Jesuitical (I made up that word) ambiguities.

Best-Mike

 

[cptbil]

catusjumper:

First off:
Have you actually researched this "Father Polzer" for yourself?
So!
That way, you would know that I was speaking with "Straight Tongue"! 8)
AKA, The "Truth" ! and that I am not giving you "false" or "My Opinion" !
Have you actually read what he has said in regard to the "mines" ?
If you have, then you'll know what he has said about "The Virgin of Guadalupe Mine"
Correct?
Then, how can/would he explain the "Site" that "Gary" ( His Book "Enigma At Tumacacori (Arizona)" has "FEDERAL" (Registered) treasure trove and mining claims on?
And!
If you have researced the subject, you know that these claims are just north of "Peck Canyon" "
In an area, Site/location
It's has been & "is!" called "Camp Loco" ! ( & That is shown on current, USGS Topo Maps, ref; "TUBAC, ARIZONA". Get the 1:24,000 ! )
And if you have researched the subject, you know why this is called "Camp Loco", RIGHT ?
I, certainly would not take an unknown person's ( Father Polzer's & Myself's ( Even tho, "Cptbil & Bugs" speaks with "Straight Tongue" ! ) word at "Face Value" w/o first researching
OR!
Having a good personal (Researched) knowledge, of the subject, myself!
This way, you'll have "references" (personally researched & documented) to back up your arguement!
Other wise
You're just "shootin" in the dark!

 

[cptbil]

CatusJumper:
Would you ( OR! Anyone else!) like to take trip back into this area?
I would be glad to take you in !
PLUS!
I have several treasure sites (4!) back in there, that I need to check out more thoughly !
One is near The Famous ? "Ojo de San Ramon" ( my site there is, a cavern cache of gold bars) it's farther west, down "Peck Canyon !
I should be in the State, most of next year....
From the "Spring" of '08, on!
Here's an opportunity to actually see & to visit, both the Mission & Mine, "The Virgin of Guadalupe Mine" !
ANYONE ?

 

[cactusjumper]

Mike and Bill,

I have done a small amount of research into the Jesuits and their work in Mexico, California and Arizona.

I prefer to use historians, rather than treasure hunters for my sources. If I want the opinion of someone familiar with mining, I just use "Western Mining" by, Otis E. Young, Jr.
Beyond that, I have depended on people like: Marshall Trimble, Rufus K. Wyllys, Thomas Edwin Farish, Malachi Martin, Manfred Barthel, Peter Masten Dunne, S.J., Ph.D., Joseph Och, S.J., Beno Ducrue, S.J., Ernest J. Burrus, S.J., David Weber, Fay Jackson Smith, John L. Kessell, Francis J. Fox, S.J., Cynthia Radding, Herbert Eugene Bolton and Paul M. Roca........
to name a few.

Admittedy, my research into the works and words of Father Polzer has not been that extensive. However, he did have this to say in an article:

"A scholar once said that lost mines and mission-myths are the literary genre of the Southwest. Unwittingly the Spanish colonials picked up the Cibola fever from the Indians and passed it on in new garb. I for one enjoy the tales as a literary form because I believe they capture the haunting reality of an inexplicable country. But taken seriously they are as harmful to history as Jonah in the whale."

In another article Father Polzer had this to say:

"Physically, Jesuits had access to gold, silver and pearls. Pfeffekorn in his "description of Sonora" mentions five mines near his mission of Cucurpe. But in his treatment, as in similar works of other missionary padres, it is clear that all the mines were worked by Spanish colonists....."

I would not, however base the truth concerning Jesuit mining on any single person, author or historian. Based on the overwhelming weight of the evidence against Jesuit mining, my opinion is that it did not happen.

Take care,

Joe

 

[Real de Tayopa Tropical Tramp]

Watchit guys, Father Charles Polzer was a personal friend of mine.

Till Eulenspiegel Don Jose de Mancha

 

[cactusjumper]

Jose,

So, why not tell us what Father Polzer's (privately voiced) opinion was concerning Jesuit mining.

Thanks,

Joe

 

[dowser]

cptbil, I'm interested in a week long treasure hunt next spring. PM me. Dowser

 

[Real de Tayopa Tropical Tramp]

HIO JOE: To the day that he died, while waiting for surgery in his room at Santa Barbara, Ca. He maintained that the Jesuits did no mining, BUT, he "was" guardedly giving in a bit from the data, pictures, etc that I had presented to him as proof that I had indeed found Tayopa. He admitted that it appeared that I had indeed found Tayopa.

In our last conversation, he remarked "when you open Tayopa I will dance the first dance with the new shoes that you will give me". But, he never "openly" admitted that Tayopa was a Jesuit operation.

Our last go around was in regards to the supposed birth, death, and marriage documents of the people of Tayopa. It ended up as the classical "Mexican Standoff"

He had a distinguished career full of international honors. He almost single handed has made Father Kino subject to Canonization.

He really was a very nice guy and extremely intelligent..

Don Jose de La Mancha - till Eulenspiegel

 

[cactusjumper]

Jose,

"To the day that he died, while waiting for surgery in his room at Santa Barbara, Ca. He maintained that the Jesuits did no mining..."

I would have bet a lot of money.....that would be your answer. Anyone who says otherwise would be a pretender.....to be kind.

Many people make much of the fact that a good number of Jesuit Missions were located close to mines. The Jesuit's went where there were souls to be cared for......Spanish as well as Indian. Where there were mines, there were many people and, for the most part, towns/missions. Tayopa was no different.

Father Polzer first entered the efforts for the beatification of Father Kino after a conversation he had with Father Edwin McDermott in 1959. I have little doubt that much of the argument in favor of Father Kino's sainthood was based on the works of Herbert Eugene Bolton, a Protestant, who's major work "Rim of Christendom", was first published in 1936.

You were a lucky man to have known Father Polzer.

Take care,

Joe

 

[cptbil]

As A Famous person has said:
"Riddle me this!"
If the Jesuits were not mining, why then, did the "King" of Spain have the army remove each and everyone
of them from the New World,
IE:
REMOVED for TAX Evasion, AS The Royal Fifth was not being paid by them on their mining operations!
AND
TO !!
Replace them with the Franciscan Priests

 

[cptbil]

Dowser:
Send me your phone number (again! ) I'll call you tonight!
I am planning to leave, early, this coming spring!
But!
Me & 'n Bugs will be out until fall/winter!
So!
We can talk it over, & You can pick a convenient time/trip!


Catus Jumper !
You haven't replied about going to the ACTUAL! Tumacacori Site!

 

[cptbil]

Hey!
Dowser:
Are you still interested ?
(re: Phone #)

Catus Jumper:
Have you injured your "typing finger(s)?"
re: Going along on trip(s) ?

 

[cactusjumper]

Bill,

Many thanks for the offer, but I will be passing on your trip....for now. Have too many things on my agenda at the present time. When you get a solid date, let me know. Things change.

Joe

 

[chaospc]

If you aware of another treasure legend, and you think we should create a new forum for it - let us know!

Thanks,
Marc Austin
[email protected]

Great site! I've been interested in treasure hunting since I was a boy, My Welsh grandfather used to hunt every weekend at Pulyn-y-Aleg castle in Wales, where apparently there is a legendary treasure hidden. I also read "Treasure Island" as a boy and have been fascinated with the subject ever since.
I've been scouring the net looking for references to the treasure at Pulyn-y-Aleg but have found very little on it although I did find this website:
http://pulynyaleg.50webs.com

Anyway, again,great site, I'll be back

 

[treasure_girl3]

Information on Avalon would be much apriciated. I'm going to start a forum about it so if anyone knows anything at all feel free to post. Thanks.


~Treasure Girl

 

[strickman]

what about the legend of curly's gold?

 

[strickman]

just kidding ,it was from a movie.i couldn't help myself.

 

[cptbil]

CATUS JUMPER & DOWSER:
As you may know,
DOC & I, are getting ready, right now!
To make a trip of 12+ months long out west
We hope to get on the road about the middle of April
So!
You can start figuring from there

When do you figure,roughly,are you going to be able to make it ?
We'll have complete access, cell & interent, from any of our camps
Name the time/date
I'll also be giving a "Demo" of a Micron Gold Recovery Device, for two seperate groups, in The Bradshaw Mnts, Central Az
About, 09/08/08
The exact location hasn't been set yet..
Depends on finding a running stream, on the east side, opposite Mayer,Az., that assays decent Micron Gold
How about that site ?