Lue Map

[Spyro]

Here's another item I forgot to mention. Attached is the Triangle fraternity logo. As you may know, Triangle fraternity members are primarily civil engineering students, but over time other engineering disciplines have been included in their membership, like architects and structural engineers. A handful of my friends were Triangle members when I was in college, and I must admit I "over enjoyed" a few parties at the Triangle house with my friends back then. In others, this is another item on the LUE map which indicates a very skilled engineer created the map, and it was created after 1907 when the Triangle fraternity was established.

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[Randy Bradford]

Spyro, you've offered up some interesting pieces of information here. A bit of background on Hinton and his article.

If you read the NPG from the period, it becomes apparent that Hinton was imposing himself on the folks at the Exanimo Establishment, which was essentially Karl's store front for the book and metal detector business he was running. There quickly brews a war of words between Hinton and John Latham which plays out in the NPG and in the letters to the editor column of True Treasure/Treasure World. Latham indicates in one issue that there are two large articles on the LUE ready to be published, later, he publishes the Hinton article and declares the story a dud and indicates he will no longer print the second article. Keep in mind, that even though Latham doesn't print the article, he still prints articles on the LUE in the Letters to the Editor clear up until 1975...interesting approach to a treasure story he discounts as a myth.

KvM never mentions Hinton by name, but he writes a great deal about him and its obvious who he's referring to. KvM paints Hinton as someone who was pushy, demanding information and essentially making a pest of himself. Keep in mind, Hinton was shown the Black Lake site AFTER it had been found and presumably cleaned out by Karl and a partner who I've been told was one of at least three people. Karl himself claimed to have solved the LUE for one location in 1958, a full 12 years before Hinton was taken to the site. Given this, it is small wonder Hinton didn't find anything.

More later...I have plenty to say about Hinton.

 

[Spyro]

You can think what you wish about Karl Van Mueller, Deek Gladson or whatever name you want to call him. My impression of him is summed up in the snapshot. In other words .. he never found a half ounce of the LUE Treasure; and he suckered you into believing it.

Simple question: If you found a huge cache of gold, why would you continue to live like a pauper, writing and selling treasure lore? Whereas, Mel Fisher had NO problem showing the public the gold and treasure he recovered from the Atocha, and didn't live like a pauper in a ghost town mobile home. God Bless 'em.

Remember, pursuing and finding lost treasure is a lot different than simply becoming enthralled with legends and lore, and/or the fun of doing research for the sake of entertainment. Heck .. if you're doing research for the sake of entertainment, you'd be better off spending your time binge-watching all the Indiana Jones movies, The National Treasure movies, or reading Edgar Allen Poe's, "The Gold Bug" or Robert Louis Stevenson's, "Treasure Island".

Worse yet .. wasting your time watching "The Curse of Oak Island" on the History channel, watching two brothers using 20th century technology to prove to themselves that the Knight's Templar didn't bury the Arc of the Covenant in a 200+ foot deep hole in the ground. They could have invested a lot less and purchased a few Quatroforces and mapped the entire island 108 feet deep, in a matter of weeks. More proof .. a fool and his money are soon parted.


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[Rebel - KGC]

To me, elements of the Lue "Map" looks like the ORDER Of the GOLDEN DAWN "influence"... VERY "Occult", IMHO.

 

[Spyro]

Which elements in the LUE map appear Kabbalistic to you?

Here's a download to Aleister Crowley's "Liber 777"
http://hermetic.com/crowley/777/777.pdf

.. and Frater Achad's "Anatomy of the Body of God"

http://hermetic.com/achad/pdf/anatomy.pdf

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[Rebel - KGC]

Which elements appear Kabbalistic to you?

Here's a download to Aleister Crowley's "Liber 777"
http://hermetic.com/crowley/777/777.pdf

.. and Frater Achad's "Anatomy of the Body of God"

http://hermetic.com/achad/pdf/anatomy.pdf

Those resources are good... NOTHING "Kabbalistic"; MORE like the lines, triangles, SUN with RAYS, the Moon, etc.; TOO "clean"...

 

[Randy Bradford]

You can think what you wish about Karl Van Mueller, Deek Gladson or whatever name you want to call him. My impression of him is summed up in the snapshot. In other words .. he never found a half ounce of the LUE Treasure; and he suckered you into believing it.

Simple question: If you found a huge cache of gold, why would you continue to live like a pauper, writing and selling treasure lore? Whereas, Mel Fisher had NO problem showing the public the gold and treasure he recovered from the Atocha, and didn't live like a pauper in a ghost town mobile home. God Bless 'em.

Remember, pursuing and finding lost treasure is a lot different than simply becoming enthralled with legends and lore, and/or the fun of doing research for the sake of entertainment. Heck .. if you're doing research for the sake of entertainment, you'd be better off spending your time binge-watching all the Indiana Jones movies, The National Treasure movies, or reading Edgar Allen Poe's, "The Gold Bug" or Robert Louis Stevenson's, "Treasure Island".

Worse yet .. wasting your time watching "The Curse of Oak Island" on the History channel, watching two brothers using 20th century technology to prove to themselves that the Knight's Templar didn't bury the Arc of the Covenant in a 200+ foot deep hole in the ground. They could have invested a lot less and purchased a few Quatroforces and mapped the entire island 108 feet deep, in a matter of weeks. More proof .. a fool and his money are soon parted.

You bring up a number of valid points, and not having been alive much less around in the early 1970s I can't being anything first hand to the table.

I can tell you Karl himself never said word one about making a recovery, only that he solved the map. Every story I've heard about his recovery of PART of the LUE came from second and third hand sources. I don't hold that as gospel, but I've heard the stories from enough people that I respect to give them the benefit of the doubt. If you read Karl's stuff then you'd know he was constantly talking about the dangers of liquidating a large treasure...both from thugs and from the bureaucrats...he also made much less of a distinction between the two than I do.

Mel Fisher is a fine example...he found plenty, but the stress of fighting over it in court shaved years off his life. Fact is his story is less of one about what to do and one of what NOT to do. Fisher found his gold but he also found an international pain in the neck an an army of lawyers who tied him up in court for years and then sent him on his way with pennies on the dollar.

Karl von Mueller already had an established name as a writer well before he published the LUE, so I don't think there was ever a financial motive. Minimally if he was trying to cash in I think he would have done a lot better job marketing the map and the information about it. Karl published the LUE as an afterthought, that much is clear.

Karl did a lot more for the treasure hunting community than "writing and selling treasure lore." Again, read his stuff...very little of it was about "the big one." Karl didn't believe in them, Karl didn't write about them. Karl preached using a common sense approach to both treasure hunting and treasure recovery. Karl rarely wrote about unfound treasures, he wrote about recoveries as a means of thinking outside of the box, putting yourself into the moment and the head of people hiding things and learning how to think on their terms. Read his body of work...more than anything, Karl wasn't someone who wrote to impress anyone, he wrote what he knew and was respected for it. Karl didn't' have to prove anything to anyone and he wrote like it.

I didn't know Karl...but I can tell you that the only people I've ever heard speak ill of him were either people that never knew him, or people that wanted something from him he wasn't ready to fork over. I have spoken with his daughter, grandson, business partners and people that swapped plenty of mail with the man...their sense of respect and admiration is universal, as is their perception of his integrity.

Back to Hinton...his story about solving the LUE struck me as peculiar long before I investigated deeper. Namely, it was missing significant parts and detail. He walks you through the process, but not the foundation. Fact is, it becomes very apparent that he worked backwards from information supplied to him by people that knew about Black Lake. He made a solution based around a known commodity and when confronted about it he could never fully explain how he came to the conclusions he came to. that's because the solution was given to him, but not HOW that solution was arrived at. Hinton cribbed someone else's work for his article and took credit for it and then did everything he could to discredit the LUE. But he only did that after spending two years sneaking around SW Colorado trying to spy on LUE hunters.

 

[Spyro]

There isn't any NOBILITY in leading a life of poverty, but .. if I did that .. my wife would have divorced me long ago .. taking EVERYTHING including my gold fillings. Then again, one can also say, he was happy with his station in life and subsisting on subscription revenues, talking treasuring hunting and happily living that lifestyle.

And the difficulty in liquidating a small or large gold cache isn't difficult either; perhaps before the law changed prior to the collapse of the Bretton Woods Agreement which set the price of gold prior to 1970. For example, I know a few custom jewelers who appraised and purchased gold from the public for decades. In fact, an acquaintance about 30 years ago used to own a business in the Eastern U.S. which sold gold chain to jewelers by the spool. And as you might know, Rhode Island is the mecca of gold chain manufacturing.

Today, one can unload tons of gold if they had half a brain.

When it comes to Karl's (or whatever his name is) credibility, I'm not necessarily talking about the LUE, but living and publishing a newsletter while living in a squalid ghost town, like Segundo, Colorado. Trust me .. if he earned more money finding gold treasure, he wouldn't have lived there. But you believe what you wish Randy, because you're steeped in his lore and reading his writing too. Whatever turns one's crank .. I guess.

Per Tom Hinton's story, I can only deduce that he chose the Black Lake area based on what KVM told him, and the fact that he brought a toy metal detector, a pick and spade indicates to me he was a fool. Jus sayin'. Another rum dum idiot who has no background nor clue in math or encryption.

How long have you been studying the LUE map? You said you've stared at it for 10 years or so, and still can't decipher it. I never read anyone's work, to solve it. It took me a few weeks in my spare time. See Randy .. not to sounding insulting .. but you enjoy the lore and research. I, on the hand, want to acquire it and am in the process of acquiring the land, and doing the logistics to plan where to store, smelt, stamp and transport it, and to whom to sell it too. I'm not saying it's not fun in doing treasure lore research, but my wife doesn't want me wasting time and money chasing down rabbit holes. And neither do I. You know what I mean.

And like I said in a previous post, you'll have to wait for the movie to learn it's location, "In Search of the LUE".

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[Spyro]

Oh .. and Rebel KGC? Aleister Crowley and "Kabbalistic" = "Order of the Golden Dawn". Besides that, civil engineering, trigonometry, calculus, using a French curve, and surveying have nothing to do with the "Occult". And as I mentioned in a previous post, the Triangle fraternity insignia appears right on the LUE map. Notice it has Escheresque qualities to it, doesn't it? But .. believe what you wish.

On the other hand .. discovering how to transform water (H20) in to pure gold is a lot more fun and rewarding.

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[Randy Bradford]

Spryo, I'm intrigued...can you tell me more about this...curious what the numbers mean...

 

[Rebel - KGC]

LOL! Word "OCCULT" means HIDDEN! NOW! Take "Lue Map" & "orient" it to the Rising Sun (EAST); Sun sets in the WEST (Moon). Beginning of the "Sine Wave" is lower left, rising up to upper right. You now have FOUR Quadrants; the "column" & the "arrow" are of GREAT "interest" & I would go in the direction the "arrow" points... my guess is NORTHWEST! "Treasure" MAY be in a TUNNEL... dunno. AND! "Rising Sun" DOES give us a "GOLDEN DAWN"...

 

[Spyro]

Rebel .. you're the one whom mentioned "Order of the Golden Dawn", and fraternal organizations do use symbols and sacred geometry, and take Sacred Oaths as members. And as I pointed out, one can see the Triangle fraternity logo or insignia right on the map.

I wasn't ridiculing your remark, I provided download links to material I've had for years, and asked you sincerely what aspects of the map do you find Occult like. In which college fraternity are you a member?

 

[Spyro]

Per Randy's post: my suggestion is to think differently; i.e, in terms of highly skilled engineers in the 1930's, with 1930's technology, seeking to build the infrastructure to hide tons of gold; either in ingot form or unrefined gold bearing ore. Whatever. Maybe you'd make more money writing a book Randy, than actually trying to "crack" the LUE map .. just like KVM. Jus sayin'

I've also attached Tom Hinton's LUE map solution, for the fun of it. Oddly enough, one of his angled line runs through Segundo.

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[Rebel - KGC]

Rebel .. you're the one whom mentioned "Order of the Golden Dawn", and fraternal organizations do use symbols and sacred geometry, and take Sacred Oaths as members. And as I pointed out, one can see the Triangle fraternity logo or insignia right on the map.

I wasn't ridiculing your remark, I provided download links to material I've had for years, and asked you sincerely what aspects of the map do you find Occult like. In which college fraternity are you a member?

My membership has NOTHING to do with it... I was Theta Alpha Kappa at JMU; with a MINOR in RELIGION... ('77).

 

[Spyro]

My question was intended to see if you were Greek, and if so, perhaps you'd recognize the symbols.
(I've solved a lot harder puzzles than this before)

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[Rebel - KGC]

My question was intended to see if you were Greek, and if so, perhaps you'd recognize the symbols.

Would have NEVER joined a "Greek"... wasn't my "thing"; my older brother was a "PIKA" at UVA... the stories he told me... HA! Can you "say", ANIMAL HOUSE...? HOWEVER!, I was a FreeMason (MASTER MASON), 32nd Degree SCOTTISH RITE/7th Degree YORK RITE (RAM), Rosicrucian 12th Degree, Martinist, Theosophical Society member, Astarian... some other. Know about Sacred Geometry & DIVERSE "Symbolisms" (also used in Treasure Burial/Hunting). AND! Was a Stonemason's Helper, Bricklayer's Helper... MOST of my R & I had done was when "active" in my Masonic Research Lodge; no longer "active" in the Lodge... STILL doing R & I; with LOTS of COFFEE! Heh...

 

[Spyro]

The Sublime Prince of the Royal Secret


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[Rebel - KGC]

VERY NICE.... THANKS!

 

[lastleg]

G Reb I thought you were Greek also or maybe Cretan.

 

[ECS]

... Aleister Crowley and "Kabbalistic" = "Order of the Golden Dawn"...

When Rudolf Hess landed in Great Britain , MI6 had Aleister Crowley interrogate him due to the esoteric information he was presenting. Jimmy Page, of Led Zeppelin, bought Crowley's house and it has been claimed conducted magick rituals there.