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  1. #1

    Mar 2004
    New Mexico
    4
    5 times

    Lue Map

    Has anyone maded and cents of all the stories on the Lue Map What do any of you think of Karl von Mueller's stories and search in and around the Lue Map.Let talk about it.
    Honest Samuel likes this.

  2. #2

    Dec 2004
    164
    40 times

    Re: Lue Map

    Dan,
    I'm replying cuz it's frustrating when no one pays any attention to what you feel is a serious subject. I'm no expert on the Lue map. However, I have looked at it up to the point where I decided it is not worth pursuing. I will share my feelings, which is all I am offering, no hard facts. The symbology on the Lue maps appears to be related to the symbols on a $1 bill. However, the modern dollar bill which contains these symbols was not yet in circulation during the time frame Von Meuller claims the map pertains to. Therefore, I have concluded it a fake, possibly by the author himself to peddle his wares. I am always open to other theories, but for now, that's where I stand. Good luck.

    Gary

  3. #3

    Mar 2004
    New Mexico
    4
    5 times

    Re: Lue Map

    Hi Gary, thank you for you e-mail. Well let me say this, Karl got a copy of the Lue Map back in the late 40s or very early 50s I do not remember the year. The Map was loaned to him and the club he was part of in the Los Angeles area. Some members of the club flew out to My area and that is how the search started. Karl did alot of things, but he did not lie or make up the Lue Map.I use a $ bill that was printed back in the 1800s. I have been watching many others walk thru what they thing the Lue Map is and where it is and what it is not, and yes I can be all wrong in my ideas, but you know behind every story there is sometimes a peace of real info.And please understand I am no expert, on this, I love a good story, and who know maybe there is something that will come out of it for someone.
    Dan

  4. #4

    Dec 2004
    164
    40 times

    Re: Lue Map

    I hope so, for your sake, and I understand your thinking. If it is near you, then all the reason to keep on going. But, there is at least one huge treasure to rival that one, which is clearly for real. Where are you located?
    Rebel - KGC likes this.

  5. #5
    Tuttle

    Re: Lue Map

    Quote Originally Posted by Dan Wilde
    Has anyone maded and cents of all the stories on the Lue Map What do any of you think of Karl von Mueller's stories and search in and around the Lue Map.Let talk about it.
    Hi Dan,

    Here is a link to a posting in a now defunct forum, though this post is still be found on the internet (for now):



    I have no idea as to the veracity of the post or the information therein, but I did find the info interesting and thought it may wet your appetite a bit. I have also included the text below since this post maybe removed at any time (usually just as I send the link to someone lol).

    For those that think this is map is a red herring, remember it's treasure items just like this map that have spurred the imagination of many a novice treasure hunter and started them down the road to becoming much more.

    Cheers,

    Tuttle



    OTHERPLANE
    Related Account "Decoding the Big Lue Treasure Map"



    Tue, 24 Feb 98, Reader writes:

    I have always gotten a kick out of the things people say about the Big LUE and the alleged finds that they claim to have found. You may perhaps say I am also one of these people. Because I make the same claim.

    I have solved the LUE and I know this is nothing new. Everyone says they have solved the LUE. If the Famous LUE that you're talking about is the document on page 110 (the back side of the first photo) of Karl Von Mueller's book "Treasure Hunter's Manual #7", then I have some information that you don't know. Make a note of it to clear up some of the myths about the LUE.

    Let's look at the document for a minute and I will give you some of the documents functions. look at the very center of the document where the sweeping line comes through the center of the column. This expression means - turn me. Now look just below the center of the column and you will see just two lines coming through the column from the arrow shaft. This expression means - turn me.

    You will observe that this drawing has two--three dimensional gimbles. It can spin 360 degrees one way as well as 360 degrees at 90 degrees in the other direction.

    Thus, you have a very clever pin wheel to extract information from, but I warn you 95% of what you think is true is false. This is the purpose of the LUE. And as you see, the bullion bars are cached under the stair step pyramid. But the trick is where within the pyramid layout will the bullion be found. I began this quest in 1990.

    This document provides two coordinates that give the searcher - Bullion's cache land mass. That is an area about six miles by three miles where the bullion will be found. Easy huh. In case you haven't figured this out yet, the LUE was designed to NEVER BE CRACKED! But obviously, it has been cracked. I will continue.

    However, the document will not tell you exactly where the bullion is. The document provides a large land mass where a very large pyramid will be found outlined by monuments.

    As the seeker records these monuments on his topographic map, there becomes his Treasure map. The six by three mile pyramid just narrows the seekers search down to the land mass. This is not a line as you know. Gosh 18 square miles to search!
    So, if the LUE code does not provide the cache location of the cached bullion, what does? The answer to this riddle is in your pocket! Pull our your wallet and take out an American dollar bill. All codes have a KEY and so does the LUE. Now find the KEY on your dollar. If you don't know where the KEY is: The key will be found two inches to the right of George's nose.

    Now that you have found the KEY, hold your dollar up to a very bright light and ask the KEY: OH Key (to the almighty dollar) where does the Contraband bullion lie? Did you get the answer? What did you see? That's right, the contraband people left the KEY on the dollar and the Bullion is cached under the very left leg of the pyramid layout.

    Now wasn't the LUE brilliant?? Now as you can see, the Great Seal was always a big factor in solving the LUE. What else does this tell you? That's right, the BIG LUE is no older that the early 1920's, because it takes our modern dollar to solve the riddle.

    Who would do such a thing and why? Well, way back in 1934, allegedly some Mexicans flew in 16 tons of bullion to sell to the U.S. Government. And as you know, there was a Federal Grand Jury meeting to investigate this story. They couldn't find a thing so they dropped the case. Does this mean that the contraband fly-in was a lie? Hardly. It only mean that Hitler's ruse worked and he had the FBI running around in circles looking for Gold Bullion in the wrong place.

    Now with this smoke screen in place, the Germans could do what they planned to do in absolute safety cause all of the cops were busy hunting hundreds of miles in the wrong area. Clever, Huh? So as you now know, the bullion was brought here and safely cached on the land of a loyal German. What happened? We the wisely added the "gold act" to prevent the U.S. from paying for Hitler's world war 2. The Germans were mad, but they couldn't do a thing about it. No one would buy the gold.

    Then something unplanned and twisty happened. The German Loyalist that designed the LUE from the American dollar, died suddenly and none of the Germans knew exactly where the bullion was cached. They knew the land boundaries, but not the cache point. After all, the Pyramid land layout is 6 miles on the arrow shaft and three miles high.

    The Germans believed the KEY place to look was the pyramid base center, because this is the most important part of the layout. Everything is figured from this point. There are holes all over the pyramid base center of this layout where the Germans tried to recover their gold. But no soap, the gold wasn't there, because you know where the bullion is buried. That's right, under the left leg of the layout where the bullion has been resting for over 60 plus years.

    How much bullion is there? Actually, I don't know. The LUE doesn't say. The LUE just protects what is there (by the dollar). Is it tons as the myth says? If you glue one reversed LUE to the given LUE you will have 45 bricks under the total stair steps pyramid expression (there are also numerous scribes that are hidden in this code). Does this mean 45 tons of bullion? Yes, someday I may meet a professional outfit that know how to do recoveries and see for myself how much gold is really cached there cause I really don't know that answer.

    The big question is how much gold would Hitler bring in here to pay his war debts? 100 tons of bullion. 200 tons of bullion? Who really can say. That's the real Treasure question, not what the LUE is or where the LUE is. That part is solved.

    Otherplane, I thought you would like to know exactly what the Big LUE stands for and exactly what the Big LUE represents. When people Treasure Hunt, it's a must to know what they are really looking for. The LUE is an encoded way bill that provides most of the answers. The Government has had this information for 60 plus hears and they have never cracked it.

    Man never forgets where he caches his Treasure. Man always leaves a record. The LUE is a record of that event. But so why the LUE really made? The LUE was made as a pun to the FBI carrying this statement: Yankee, if we can't spend our gold in your country, then you find it! Thus, the LUE.

    Tue, 24 Feb 98, Otherplane's reply:

    That was very informative in a lot of ways and we have to agree with you in two things; that the Big LUE was a record of events and its EXTREMELY ACCURATE. We stress the accuracy because it was that accurate. The Germans didn't have nothing to do with it, not by a long shot. Most of the loot that they have went to South America. Even if they transport some here to the U.S., it's not a part of the Big LUE.

    The Mexican Cartel that transported that 16 tons to the U.S....was true. President Roosevelt promised the Mexican Cartel, headed by Leon Trabuco, that he will buy all the gold they can produce to help the U.S. out of the great depression. There were 6 persons in that Cartel. The agreement was to buy the gold at a certain amount to purge the economy but once the gold was transported to the U.S., President Roosevelt lowered the price to almost nothing. The Cartel declined to the offer and thus started the law - that you cannot own gold bullion. The other five members of the Cartel died from reasons unknown, in 1978. Trabuco agreed to reveal the location of the cache and a large sum of money was deposited to a Canadian bank. He was at the airport ready to meet the people in the U.S. when he died of a heart attack. Sometime after that, the gold bullion ban was lifted and the price of gold went skyhigh.

    If you were to put Big LUE's gold bullion in today's market, it will destroy the economic balance of the world market. That's how much gold the Big LUE represents. You were right when you state that the Big LUE is a record of events but you did not elaborate on the events. Also, why would the Germans put all of their gold in a measly 18 square miles? That doesn't make sense. Also, there are keywords that did not show up in your email that would surely identify if you ever came close to breaking the Big LUE Treasure Map.

    Fold the Big LUE map into four quadrants and three of the four quadrants represent "time and place" and the other quadrant represent just the place.


  6. #6
    us
    Oct 2004
    Hill Country TEXAS
    White's. Old, yellow but still waterproof!
    249
    2 times
    All Types Of Treasure Hunting

    Re: Lue Map

    this is the first i've heard of the "big lue" (just started TH) is there an online diagram of the map somewere? or a pic?
    searcher
    Searcher
      H.H.

  7. #7
    Charter Member

    Mar 2003
    Indiana
    All types of BFOs owned. Especially want White's Arrow; White's Oremaster; Exanimo Spartan Little Monster; Garrett contract Little Monster.
    1,584
    49 times

    Re: Lue Map

    searcher. Get a copy of Treasure hunters Manual # 7 by Karl von Mueller for a good line drawing. page 110? or close to it. exanimo, ss
    "We have done so much; for so many; for so long; with so little; that pretty soon we'll be able to do anything; with nothing at all."
    my unit motto - 138th Aviation Company -  224th Aviation Battalion - Phu Bai, I Corps, Republic of Vietnam - 1972
    Siegfried Schlagrule

  8. #8
    Floater

    Re: Lue Map

    Well between Treasuremaster.com and otherplane.com sites, both have a wildly different stories. I have heard of the Mexican story also separately not connected to the LUE and I have heard of the German Story also not connected to the LUE the symbols and such on the LUE are in no way in my opinion connected to the dollar bill.With that being said I think you could construe that if the document were a map.it would be easier to decipher. Maybe this is the point that it has been over analyzed and as far as somebody solving it then why aren't they rich and why are they posting it.Another daydreamer who likes to hear himself write. There are several good stories about the treasures and the Spanish but this is not the true story in my opinion again of the LUE. JMTC HH

  9. #9
    us
    where your treasure is, there your heart will be also.

    Jul 2003
    Eastern North Carolina
    White's XLT, Garrett's CX w/Bloodhound, GTA 500, Whites PI
    149
    2 times

    Re: Lue Map

    Gents,

    KvonM wrote a fairly extensive article in an issue of the National Prospector's Gazette from 1969 (?) concerning the LUE. I never knew or even met the man and that is my loss; however, I believe him to be honest and a man of integrity. In my mind the LUE is real. If Karl von Mueller says it's real then it's legitimate. Anyway, this topic has not been replied to in forever. If you read this, give me a shout. Thanx!

    Seajay
    Honest Samuel likes this.
    Seajay

  10. #10
    um
    Dec 2008
    3,964
    2764 times

    Re: Lue Map

    From time to time I read various people's opinions of Karl von Mueller and it is clear that most of the writers never met him. If they had they would know that he was a rock of a man - and it was all pure ore!

    More to the point, most treasure hunters today don't understand what KvonM did for us. During the J. Frank Dobie era, treasure writing was mostly folklore. His excellent Coronado's Children and Apace Gold and Yaqui Silver were collections of folklore. This was during the 1920's and 1930's. Experienced collectors will own a copy of Legends of Texas - where many of these stories were first printed. This was a publication of the Texas Folklore Society.

    Then came the era of men's adventure magazines - Argosy and True and countless other titles. 99% of these articles was fiction, of course, but it was very popular fiction. Harry Rieseberg and F.L. Coffman and Thomas Penfield were publishing books that sold many, many copies - but probably never lead anyone to finding anything.

    Meanwhile Karl von Mueller was sharing the inside world of professional treasure hunting. His Treasure Hunter's Manuals, Sudden Wealth, The Encyclopedia of Buried Treasure Hunting, the National Prospector's Gazette and The Exanimo Express didn't make him a lot of friends within the profession. But he really didn't care about that.

    If Karl wrote it he thought it was true. It was based on more field experience than any other treasure hunter alive or dead. He didn't need the money he made from books - he could have made a fine living continuing to write for the Saturday Evening Post and other national magazines. Not to mention all the plunder he found.

    He wrote about the LUE treasure in THM #7 and there is a diagram that looks a great deal like parts of it in the Treasure of the Valley of Secrets. You can rest assured it was for real because he said it was. That should be enough for anyone who calls himself a treasure hunter.

    Good luck to all,

    ~The Old Bookaroo
    Make America Think Again

    Do you have good books in good condition you are never going to re-read? Clean 'em out!
    Operation Paperback collects gently used books and sends them to American troops.

  11. #11
    pw
    Apr 2003
    New Mexico
    BS
    2,850
    1343 times

    Re: Lue Map

    Quote Originally Posted by Old Bookaroo
    ...You can rest assured it was for real because he said it was. That should be enough for anyone who calls himself a treasure hunter.
    Interersting concept - assuming a treasure writer's information is gospel. Kind of like a chela sitting at the feet of his guru assuming enlightenment is coming. I never met VM (not that it makes any difference), but those I've talked with who have give differing observations than yours. What's more interesting to me is the explosion of lost mine/hidden treasure literature that began in the Dobie era or a bit earlier. It seems as if a number of the now well-known, accepted legends just suddenly appeared, many with little or no previous 'history'.
    ​Adios, amigos - it's been interesting.







  12. #12
    um
    Dec 2008
    3,964
    2764 times

    Re: Lue Map

    Springfield:

    Most of today's well known treasure legends have a basis in 19th Century newspaper accounts and old timers' tales.

    For example, the first published accounts of the Lost Dutchman Mine appeared in the San Francisco Examiner. Stories of lost mines grew up with the West. California's Gold Lake Hoax - also known as Stoddard's Gold Lake - is a great example. 49'ers left paying claims to go hunt this will o' the wisp high up in the Sierras. They returned with empty pockets to find others quite happily working their former, quite profitable, sites.

    The Lost Adams Diggins is another good example. Byerts' pamphlet came out early in the 20th Century, and the story was decades old by then.

    Miners in Greenwater and Rhyolite and other Death Valley mining camps told stories about the Lost Breyfogle in the early 1900's.

    The Miner's Guide; A Ready Handbook for the Prospector and Miner (Los Angeles: 1921; Second Edition 1925) by Horace J. West includes a final chapter "Lost Mines of the West." Many of these stories were decades old when Mr. West wrote them down.

    There are many more examples. The growth of the popular treasure magazines - True Treasure, Treasure World, Western Treasures, Lost Treasure and the rest - followed the popularity of the affordable, highly efficient metal detector.

    Harry Christman called Karl von Mueller "The Dean of American Treasure Hunters." And he was right. Then there is the whole field of hobby or part-time gold prospecting - primarily with a dredge. But that's another story...

    Good luck to all,

    ~The Old Bookaroo
    Make America Think Again

    Do you have good books in good condition you are never going to re-read? Clean 'em out!
    Operation Paperback collects gently used books and sends them to American troops.

  13. #13
    Charter Member

    Mar 2003
    Indiana
    All types of BFOs owned. Especially want White's Arrow; White's Oremaster; Exanimo Spartan Little Monster; Garrett contract Little Monster.
    1,584
    49 times

    Re: Lue Map

    KvM delighted in practical jokes and hated frauds and phonies. He exposed the authors who sold fiction as fact and risked the lives of treasure hunters.
    He exposed plagiarists by adding phony listings to his treasure books and bibliographies. There is at least one phony listing in Journals of Eldorado and his account of the NELOTS treasure was a classic (NELOTS is STOLEN spelled backwards). There was some very serious egg on the faces of some "important" authors that time. To those who called KvM only a treasure story teller they need to name any other treasure story teller whose tales yielded at least a 50% recovery rate. Nearly every story he gave us in THM6 was recovered by the time he released THM7 and I'm guessing that at least half of the stories in waybills to eldorado have yielded up the goods. Some of the most vocal of his critics had incidents where he exposed their failings publicly. In a word they bear a grudge. They got put in their place and didn't like it. He also protected the treasure investors by exposing the flim-flam artists who make it hard for an honest man to get a grubstake for a real treasure. You can judge a man by the enemies he has. Most of the people who badmouth KvM are repeating bull that they heard from someone else. If any of them claim it happened to them I've got serious doubts that they are worth knowing and definitely wouldn't bother working with them on any project. siegfried schlagrule
    "We have done so much; for so many; for so long; with so little; that pretty soon we'll be able to do anything; with nothing at all."
    my unit motto - 138th Aviation Company -  224th Aviation Battalion - Phu Bai, I Corps, Republic of Vietnam - 1972
    Siegfried Schlagrule

  14. #14
    um
    Dec 2008
    3,964
    2764 times

    Re: Lue Map

    siegfried schlagrule:

    Well said!

    I would only add two things - the first is that some of those who bad-mouth Karl von Mueller may have actually met the man. Everyone is entitled to his or her own opinion - people are not entitled to their own facts.

    Two: Anyone who thinks KvonM was a fraud, please show me a readily-available book or just a pamphlet written by one of his detractors that will stand up to the Master Hunter's Manual. Here's a metal detector manual he dashed off for his friend Charles Garrett that is one of the best introductions to successful treasure hunting I've ever read. There's a reason copies sell today for forty or fifty bucks - they are worth it!

    Ditto for KvonM's Coinshooter's Manual (quality; not pricetag. Yet).

    A correction, if I may. I believe it was Ed Bartholomew (Jesse (Ed) Rascoe) who wrote the "Nelots" treasure story.

    Good luck to all,

    ~The Old Bookaroo
    Make America Think Again

    Do you have good books in good condition you are never going to re-read? Clean 'em out!
    Operation Paperback collects gently used books and sends them to American troops.

  15. #15
    Charter Member

    Mar 2003
    Indiana
    All types of BFOs owned. Especially want White's Arrow; White's Oremaster; Exanimo Spartan Little Monster; Garrett contract Little Monster.
    1,584
    49 times

    Re: Lue Map

    Could be it was Bartholomew who wrote it and von Mueller who reported it. Wouldn't argue the point and glad I remembered that well. Memories fade and get scrambled after they use those 10,000 volt paddles on you.
    There's a big difference between meeting someone and not liking them or thinking that they are full of themselves and calling a person a phony, a liar, a cheat or a fraud.
    Those are the folks i'm talking about. best regards, siegfried schlagrule
    Rebel - KGC likes this.
    "We have done so much; for so many; for so long; with so little; that pretty soon we'll be able to do anything; with nothing at all."
    my unit motto - 138th Aviation Company -  224th Aviation Battalion - Phu Bai, I Corps, Republic of Vietnam - 1972
    Siegfried Schlagrule

 

 
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