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  1. #46
    us
    Dec 2005
    Eugene, Oregon
    Fisher CZ5, White's GM VSat
    4,093
    85 times

    Re: 1873 Kingman/Canyon Station Stagecoach Robbery Questions

    Me? I'm in Oregon, I have no interest in this one.

  2. #47
    Cptbil

    Mar 2003
    Az/NM/Ca/Nv/Tx
    1,402
    10 times

    Re: 1873 Kingman/Canyon Station Stagecoach Robbery Questions

    Jeffro:
    Sorry!
    That "Reply" was meant for Arizona Bob!
    Ariz. Bob:
    I completely agree with you, This "Tale" is or was made up by someone who isn't very familiar with the old west !
    For one thing....
    The trip from Prescott to Kingman, (Canyon Station) to the Fort is about 100 miles longer than if the money had been shipped along the southern trail/route to Fort Mohave!
    AND!
    A 100 extra miles, back in those days and by stage, back in those days was a nice long, hot bumpy ride of about 4 days!
    CptBil & Bugs

  3. #48
    us
    Apr 2007
    CA-AZ-NV-NM
    Garrett GTI 2500
    545
    16 times

    Re: 1873 Kingman/Canyon Station Stagecoach Robbery Questions

    cptbil:

    I was just wondering how old the oldest documentation was to the so-called legend. I don't think that I could do anything IF I knew about the earliest recorded "story".... maybe check some details that might differ from the 1973 version.... I don't have access to a microfiche reader in my area.... If I did, I would order microfiche copies of the 1873 October-December Arizona Miner and scan for any details of this so-called legend. If no mention in the 1873-74 Arizona Miner, then that pretty much puts the final nail-in-the-coffin of this silly legend.

    Bob

  4. #49
    us
    Jun 2007
    Simi Valley California
    437
    1 times

    Re: 1873 Kingman/Canyon Station Stagecoach Robbery Questions

    I would check to see if the owners of the land at the time were trying to sell the land prior to the legend. Or if something that was happening in their lives would lead them to want to sell. A story of lost gold on your land would probably fetch you more money..

  5. #50
    us
    Dec 2008
    1

    Re: 1873 Kingman/Canyon Station Stagecoach Robbery Questions

    Hello all! I joined to forum just to get involved in this topic. I live in Kingman and am 24 years old and love history. My grandparents have lived here since 1962, they were very adventurous in their younger years and spent alot of time 'digging dumps' and exploring around the area. This is where I got my intrest in history from. Anyway-on to the treasure. I'm not really sure if the treasure story is true, however I would like to go to this area and relic hunt for a number of reasons....not many people know about it, with a new modern (very nice might I add) metal detector more things are possible than ever before, and last but not least-I drive by the turn-off twice a day! I live out on Stockton Hill, and since I came across this thread with the GPS coordinates I have been just itching to go there. So has anyone talked to the land owners yet? I am curious of the current status of actually obtaining access to the sight. I was also curious of where the old road would have been located connecting Kingman to Canyon Station? Probably similar to current Stockton Hill Road I assume. Anyhow, I dying to know what is the latest with this story!!!
    -Brandon

  6. #51
    us
    May 2007
    Western Colorado
    5,871
    44 times

    Re: 1873 Kingman/Canyon Station Stagecoach Robbery Questions

    Brandon,

    Welcome to T-net.
    I am not (absolutely) sure ...
    But I believe all the clues led to private property.
    No permission could be obtained to access.

    Good hunting in 2009 !
    We all hope to see some good stuff.

    Thom
    "Everybody dies"
    "But not everybody lives."

  7. #52
    um
    Dec 2008
    1,868
    894 times

    Re: 1873 Kingman/Canyon Station Stagecoach Robbery Questions

    First of all, a tip of my hat to the several researchers here who are willing to share their first-class work! Nicely-done - and "Thank you!"

    I would say "Maurice Kildare" (I believe his given name was Gladwell Richardson) is the modern source for this story. He was a genuine Westerner (grew up on an Indian Reservation; I believe his parents ran the trading post) and knew his stuff. I certainly do not believe or agree with everything he wrote (I think his published version of Wounded Knee could not have been more wrong). However, he did publish a number of treasure hunting articles and did his own research.

    Richard Patterson's excellent Historical Atlas of the Outlaw West (Boulder, Colorado: 1985) includes this story. And his source was Maurice Kildare's article "Loot of the Vanished Stage" in Westerner, March-April 1974.

    Good luck to all,

    ~The Old Bookaroo
    Do you have good books in good condition you are never going to re-read? Clean 'em out!
    Operation Paperback collects gently used books and sends them to American troops.

  8. #53
    us
    Apr 2007
    CA-AZ-NV-NM
    Garrett GTI 2500
    545
    16 times

    Re: 1873 Kingman/Canyon Station Stagecoach Robbery Questions

    Quote Originally Posted by P2tharizo
    Hello all! I joined to forum just to get involved in this topic. I live in Kingman and am 24 years old and love history. My grandparents have lived here since 1962, they were very adventurous in their younger years and spent alot of time 'digging dumps' and exploring around the area. This is where I got my intrest in history from. Anyway-on to the treasure. I'm not really sure if the treasure story is true, however I would like to go to this area and relic hunt for a number of reasons....not many people know about it, with a new modern (very nice might I add) metal detector more things are possible than ever before, and last but not least-I drive by the turn-off twice a day! I live out on Stockton Hill, and since I came across this thread with the GPS coordinates I have been just itching to go there. So has anyone talked to the land owners yet? I am curious of the current status of actually obtaining access to the sight. I was also curious of where the old road would have been located connecting Kingman to Canyon Station? Probably similar to current Stockton Hill Road I assume. Anyhow, I dying to know what is the latest with this story!!!-Brandon
    Hello Brandon. I eventually came around the back side- up and around the mine (near Chloride on the mountain side). The "road" really is more of a "wash" now. You can get within about a half-mile of the old station going this way (using 4X4). The wash was is blocked by huge boulders. When you begin walking, you will come to a fenceline with no-trespassing posted. I did not let my curiosity allow me to cross the fence. It was hard getting that close, and not finishing the adventure. But out of respect for the current owners, I left.

    Before trying to contact the current owners for permission to enter the station area, I decided to obtain older sources of documentation relating to the story/robbery. As Old Bookaroo indicated, the oldest documentation seems to be from the 1970's. For me to continue, I would need to see some evidence of much older documentation (newspaper/court docs/Army reports etc).

    The US Army was my first choice for trying to obtain documentation. Not surprisingly, it is VERY difficult getting Army reports on ANY of their "missing" payroll shipments. This doesn't mean that I believe the Army records don't exist. I believe they do exist... I just think the Army ain't sharing them.

    I found other info. I'd be happy to answer any questions- if I am able to.

  9. #54
    us
    Apr 2007
    CA-AZ-NV-NM
    Garrett GTI 2500
    545
    16 times

    Re: 1873 Kingman/Canyon Station Stagecoach Robbery Questions

    Quote Originally Posted by Old Bookaroo
    First of all, a tip of my hat to the several researchers here who are willing to share their first-class work! Nicely-done - and "Thank you!"

    I would say "Maurice Kildare" (I believe his given name was Gladwell Richardson) is the modern source for this story. He was a genuine Westerner (grew up on an Indian Reservation; I believe his parents ran the trading post) and knew his stuff. I certainly do not believe or agree with everything he wrote (I think his published version of Wounded Knee could not have been more wrong). However, he did publish a number of treasure hunting articles and did his own research.

    Richard Patterson's excellent Historical Atlas of the Outlaw West (Boulder, Colorado: 1985) includes this story. And his source was Maurice Kildare's article "Loot of the Vanished Stage" in Westerner, March-April 1974.

    Good luck to all,

    ~The Old Bookaroo
    Thank you, Old Bookaroo.

  10. #55
    us
    May 2009
    1

    Re: 1873 Kingman/Canyon Station Stagecoach Robbery Questions

    I see that the last post on this was in January. Have you all given up?

    I live just a mile or so from the old station and so the legend has sparked my interest.

    First of all, Nelle Clack's testimony isn't valid. Nelle Easter Lindsay (maiden name) is a real person - and yes, she was the Super of the Mohave County School District from 1925-1929. She was also a devout Catholic. She didn't even become a Clack (of Clack's Canyon fame) until 1917 - decades after the purported robbery took place. Her husband (Greeley Horace Clack) didn't even MOVE to Arizona until 1891. So if she happened to find evidence of someone living up in Clack's canyon, it would have had to have been some random person.

    Secondly, if there was a robbery, it had nothing to do with the army. The only army payroll robbery even remotely near the Cerbats took place in 1889 (the money of which, coincidentally, has yet to be found).

    Also, there's no evidence in the Mohave Miner records of anything remotely similar taking place between 1870-1890.

    However, that being said, there may be a tie to the 1889 army robbery and the legend. I'm still corroborating with an AZ records person to validate this, but I have the name of a man that was involved in the 1889 robbery who was taken to the Yuma prison. I don't want to just blab his name over this forum, but it is similar to the old Cerbat legend and upon confirming his sentencing details, we may find that the lost money is not near the Cerbats at all, but further south by many, many miles.

    If anyone is interested in sharing information so that we can get one step closer to solving this, please let me know. The investigations cited on this forum are to be commended. I'd be very interested in speaking to some of you in further detail about this legend.

  11. #56
    us
    Apr 2007
    CA-AZ-NV-NM
    Garrett GTI 2500
    545
    16 times

    Re: 1873 Kingman/Canyon Station Stagecoach Robbery Questions

    Quote Originally Posted by whitmansincubo
    I see that the last post on this was in January. Have you all given up?

    I live just a mile or so from the old station and so the legend has sparked my interest.

    First of all, Nelle Clack's testimony isn't valid. Nelle Easter Lindsay (maiden name) is a real person - and yes, she was the Super of the Mohave County School District from 1925-1929. She was also a devout Catholic. She didn't even become a Clack (of Clack's Canyon fame) until 1917 - decades after the purported robbery took place. Her husband (Greeley Horace Clack) didn't even MOVE to Arizona until 1891. So if she happened to find evidence of someone living up in Clack's canyon, it would have had to have been some random person.

    Secondly, if there was a robbery, it had nothing to do with the army. The only army payroll robbery even remotely near the Cerbats took place in 1889 (the money of which, coincidentally, has yet to be found).

    Also, there's no evidence in the Mohave Miner records of anything remotely similar taking place between 1870-1890.

    However, that being said, there may be a tie to the 1889 army robbery and the legend. I'm still corroborating with an AZ records person to validate this, but I have the name of a man that was involved in the 1889 robbery who was taken to the Yuma prison. I don't want to just blab his name over this forum, but it is similar to the old Cerbat legend and upon confirming his sentencing details, we may find that the lost money is not near the Cerbats at all, but further south by many, many miles.

    If anyone is interested in sharing information so that we can get one step closer to solving this, please let me know. The investigations cited on this forum are to be commended. I'd be very interested in speaking to some of you in further detail about this legend.

    First off, welcome to tnet, whitmansincubo. It's good to see that you had access to the old copies of the Mohave Miner. Good job! (How did you get access to them?)

    I have been looking for copies of Army payroll robbery reports for the 1870-1900 time period. I have found a few, but it wasn't an easy task. Let's just say the Army has not been very cooperative. I certainly understand why. They don't want some dumba$$ treasurehunter (like me) finding and keeping their gold and silver. Having said all of this, finding a report really only establishes that a payroll robbery took place on a certain date, time and place- it does not tell you where the loot may have been hidden.

    I do have a copy of an 18XX Army Paymasters manual. I know what routes the stagecoach teams used to travel from Prescott to Fort Mohave. In this case, legend states where "ground zero" is (the place where the robbery occurred). I'd like to see an Army report verifying that. I would then work from ground zero outward to try to locate the loot. As of now, I'm not going to run around in circles in the desert looking for this treasure unless I can get way-better verification of the robbery!

    Let's talk about the 1889 robbery you are working on!


  12. #57
    us
    Oct 2009
    3

    Re: 1873 Kingman/Canyon Station Stagecoach Robbery Questions

    hi all
    its so nice to see that you all have looked into this. Its funny to hear some of what you are doing and where you are looking for things.
    I can tell you all this, I have lived in Kingman all my life and My father has lived there all of his and so on for over a hundred years.
    there are many stories about the robbery , and who did it and where the money went. Yes it is now on private land at least the stage
    stop is. Sorry I will not say to much for right now I am in Iraq and will not be home for some time. I can tell you this just so you know I do know what is going on here. Charlie Black has the fence that blocks the road. And yes Nellie Clack did marry into the Clack family.
    But no the coin she found was not a 20 dollar gold piece it was a 10 dollar gold piece that I know of eight that were found there. They
    were not from the stagecoach. They were lost from a stagecoach that was going to mineral park with the mines payroll. And yes you do
    have the close gps. for the stage stop not right on but close.

  13. #58
    us
    Apr 2007
    CA-AZ-NV-NM
    Garrett GTI 2500
    545
    16 times

    Re: 1873 Kingman/Canyon Station Stagecoach Robbery Questions

    Quote Originally Posted by cudadan
    hi all
    its so nice to see that you all have looked into this. Its funny to hear some of what you are doing and where you are looking for things. I can tell you all this, I have lived in Kingman all my life and My father has lived there all of his and so on for over a hundred years. there are many stories about the robbery , and who did it and where the money went. Yes it is now on private land at least the stage stop is. Sorry I will not say to much for right now I am in Iraq and will not be home for some time. I can tell you this just so you know I do know what is going on here. Charlie Black has the fence that blocks the road. And yes Nellie Clack did marry into the Clack family. But no the coin she found was not a 20 dollar gold piece it was a 10 dollar gold piece that I know of eight that were found there. They were not from the stagecoach. They were lost from a stagecoach that was going to mineral park with the mines payroll. And yes you do have the close gps. for the stage stop not right on but close.
    Hello cudadan:

    Welcome to Treasurenet! Also, thank you for your service. Which branch of service are you in?
    I would love to get a copy of any 1800's Army payroll robbery report.
    Of course, I'm not really interested in finding any lost Army gold (wink wink, nudge nudge).
    I only want to verify the truth of the story...

    Stay safe.

    Bob

    PS- When you return, the beer's on me.

  14. #59
    us
    Sep 2004
    Kingman AZ
    388
    36 times

    Re: 1873 Kingman/Canyon Station Stagecoach Robbery Questions

    Just out of curiosity , how many soldiers were stationed at the fort where the money was headed . $73,000 is a lot of money considering what the Army paid in the past . 1964 I made $78 a month . Thank God for Jump Pay .
    TOM
    KINGMAN LODGE #22 F&AM KINGMAN, ARIZONA
    NRA
    LDMA
    U.S. PARATROOPER

  15. #60
    us
    Oct 2009
    3

    Re: 1873 Kingman/Canyon Station Stagecoach Robbery Questions

    Sorry about the laps in time was moving to a new fob. If you all like these stories there is a book that was wrote by one of the cofer's its called the lunch tree. she tells of a lot of things that happened back in the late 1800's and early 1900's. Also yes there was another stage robbery that happened close to kingman down by a town now know as yucca Az. it happened in 1889. Also there was a shipment of coins that was shipped by train that some were lost around that time when two steam engines hit head on , one that was carring the coins. I believe that is also in that book the lunch tree. As far as me I am here as a DOD with the ARMY EOD. Also you will not find any of this story looking into the paper of kingman daily miner for it was not started yet. The paper in kingman did not start for a few years after. Kingman was not even founded till 1881. But fort Beale was there. Also you have to remember this stage went clear up to SF Cal. So there was a lot of things shipped over it.

 

 
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