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Thread: Coopers Treasure Show

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  1. #1
    us
    Jul 2012
    Albuqerque, NM / Durango, CO
    Garrett Infinium & Gold Bug II, Bazooka Super Prospector Sluice
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    All Types Of Treasure Hunting

    Cooper's Treasure Show

    Hi All,

    Last night I checked out a new show on Discovery Channel called Cooper's Treasure. This show is based on the observations of an astronaut that were made while he was orbiting the earth in a Mercury space capsule in the 1960's. Here is a link to the website for the show:

    About Cooper?s Treasure | Cooper's Treasure | Discovery

    In last night's show they briefly discussed the idea that a top top secret long range sensor could have been installed in the capsule that could detect large masses of metal from orbit. This is where they lost me. I am not aware of any such technology that exists today that could pull that off today, let alone in the 1960's.

    In my humble opinion such a sensor would need to be passive in the sense it would have to detect changes created by large metal masses in the Earth's magnetic field, or some other aspect of the environment. My reasoning on that is based on the fact that Mercury space capsules were very small and could not have carried a large power source. So no lasers or radar or anything like that would have been achievable, even if that technology existed at that time.

    But hey, I am always open to alternative viewpoints, and would like to discuss what all of you think might have been employed to detect the large metal masses that Gordon Cooper was searching for on his record breaking mission of 122 hours in space. What long range sensors could pull that off, and could they have been used in that mission to try to detect nuclear warheads and technology in the 1960's? Please be prepared to back up any theories you have on this with verifiable sources.

    Thanks!
    sdcfia, Prop3, Swaveab and 2 others like this.

  2. #2
    us
    Jan 2017
    Pennsylvania
    61
    61 times
    All Types Of Treasure Hunting
    Quote Originally Posted by UncleMatt View Post


    But hey, I am always open to alternative viewpoints, and would like to discuss what all of you think might have been employed to detect the large metal masses that Gordon Cooper was searching for on his record breaking mission of 122 hours in space. What long range sensors could pull that off, and could they have been used in that mission to try to detect nuclear warheads and technology in the 1960's? Please be prepared to back up any theories you have on this with verifiable sources.

    Thanks!
    Possibly an early, "Top Secret" form of LIDAR
    Wickipedia says it first originated in the early 1960's after the invention of the laser.

    Your Bud Aurum
    Rebel - KGC likes this.

  3. #3
    us
    Jul 2012
    Albuqerque, NM / Durango, CO
    Garrett Infinium & Gold Bug II, Bazooka Super Prospector Sluice
    2,284
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    All Types Of Treasure Hunting
    But LIDAR cannot detect things below the surface of the ocean. As well, LIDAR requires a computer to work. Which did not yet exist at the time that were sophisticated or powerful enough.

  4. #4
    us
    Jan 2017
    Pennsylvania
    61
    61 times
    All Types Of Treasure Hunting
    Quote Originally Posted by UncleMatt View Post
    But LIDAR cannot detect things below the surface of the ocean. As well, LIDAR requires a computer to work. Which did not yet exist at the time that were sophisticated or powerful enough.
    This came from a reputable site;


    Now retired in Nassau Bay, Texas, Underwood recalled the camera was a
    35-mm Questar with a Zeiss 'Contarex' lens. That is a "cataoptic system"
    (folded optics), with a foot-long barrel giving "several thousand" mm's of focal
    length (Cooper recalls it was 1250mm). Mounted on the spacecraft window,
    it was shot at 1/50th of a second at various ground targets passing directly
    below the spacecraft.

    http://www.jamesoberg.com/area_51_go...ted_camera.pdf

    Your Bud Aurum
    Rebel - KGC likes this.

  5. #5
    us
    Jan 2017
    Pennsylvania
    61
    61 times
    All Types Of Treasure Hunting
    This leads me to believe, if indeed his story is not fabricated and a camera was used, that he was able to identify large ocean reefs. Areas where shipwrecks could occur and he filled in the dots with more research.

    Your Bud Aurum
    Last edited by Bud Aurum; Apr 21, 2017 at 08:10 AM. Reason: spelling
    Rebel - KGC likes this.

  6. #6
    us
    Jul 2012
    Albuqerque, NM / Durango, CO
    Garrett Infinium & Gold Bug II, Bazooka Super Prospector Sluice
    2,284
    2252 times
    All Types Of Treasure Hunting
    The camera was to take photos to help find nuclear missile facilities. And while it could probably see reefs, it would have captured photos of literally thousands of such reefs without any way of indicating which of those reefs might have sunken ships nearby. The show talked about a long range sensor that could detect large masses of metal that was placed where the periscope once was in the capsule. And that sensor was what Cooper based his finding on regarding sunken ships. I am trying to figure out what that long range sensor might have been, given the limitations of technology at the time. The only thing I have come up with so far is maybe it was a magnetometer of some kind. But that wouldn't be able to pinpoint exact locations as was suggested in the show. I am not aware of any technology that can detect large masses of metal from orbit, even today. And especially not under the surface of the ocean on the sea floor.
    Rebel - KGC likes this.

  7. #7
    us
    Jul 2012
    Albuqerque, NM / Durango, CO
    Garrett Infinium & Gold Bug II, Bazooka Super Prospector Sluice
    2,284
    2252 times
    All Types Of Treasure Hunting
    Think about it: if such technology existed, the US government could simply use it to locate sunken ships all over the world and them recover all the valuable metals itself. That would be a huge amount of money for our government. Since they are not doing so, it casts serious doubt on the idea that such long range sensing technology exists at all.

  8. #8
    us
    Feb 2011
    Lakeland, Florida
    442
    649 times
    Quote Originally Posted by UncleMatt View Post
    Think about it: if such technology existed, the US government could simply use it to locate sunken ships all over the world and them recover all the valuable metals itself. That would be a huge amount of money for our government. Since they are not doing so, it casts serious doubt on the idea that such long range sensing technology exists at all.
    So true. Why should they spend money finding treasure? All they have to do is sit around and wait for some poor smuck to find some then hit em with some convoluted law and take the stuff. No money or effort spent for some ill gotten gain. Better then a pirate or outlaw.
    Rebel - KGC likes this.
    The Scarecrow sees all and tells none.

  9. #9
    us
    Jul 2012
    Albuqerque, NM / Durango, CO
    Garrett Infinium & Gold Bug II, Bazooka Super Prospector Sluice
    2,284
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    But if they had scanning sensors that could detect lost treasure on the ocean floor, the US government could just use military hardware to retrieve it. They wouldn't need to wait on anyone to find and recover it. And if it were in really deep water, how would it be detected? I find it very hard to believe such scanning technology exists, and definitely not back in the 1960's. But hey, I would love to be proven wrong!
    Swaveab and Rebel - KGC like this.

  10. #10
    us
    Jul 2012
    Albuqerque, NM / Durango, CO
    Garrett Infinium & Gold Bug II, Bazooka Super Prospector Sluice
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    All Types Of Treasure Hunting
    In the last show the ship they found was made of metal, and had no treasure. So even if some secret technology had been used to detect large masses of metal under the ocean's surface, how would that technology tell the difference between gold and silver in in a Spanish wreck and the metal hull of a ship from more modern times?
    Rebel - KGC and Swaveab like this.

  11. #11
    us
    Jul 2015
    Southwest PA
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    Coins and valuable metals
    One thing I can agree on is that it is NOT VLF from space as that would bounce straight off of the atmosphere to be reflected back into space. It won't penetrate. To penetrate the atmosphere one would need a higher frequency of say VHF or higher and it would not discern small amounts of metal below. Most likely a camera with high magnification lens could've been used back then and lots of negatives would've been produced to be gone over. I doubt Cooper would've been given this task for developing and viewing the negatives on the ground and it certainly would not have been done in space. He may have been looking at the image at the time in the viewfinder like a space based telescope and he made his notes based on that is what I think.
    UncleMatt, Prop3 and Rebel - KGC like this.

  12. #12
    us
    Jul 2012
    Albuqerque, NM / Durango, CO
    Garrett Infinium & Gold Bug II, Bazooka Super Prospector Sluice
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    All Types Of Treasure Hunting
    Any electromagnetic wave based detection technology would require a very large power source, and also very heavy. It would have to be strong enough to send signals from orbit to the surface of the earth, and be able to penetrate hundreds of feet below the surface of the ocean. The small area that was available on Cooper's Mercury capsule would not be large enough to carry such a power source, nor would an antenna have been in place to send signals from.

    My step-mother was a part of the Mercury program by the way. She agrees with me that the idea that a non-passive scanning technology could do as this show suggests in the 1960's is absurd. The only possibility is measurements of the earth's magnetic field, which would not really have the kind of resolution needed to pinpoint ships on the floor of the ocean. But hey, like I already said, I would love to be proven wrong.
    Rebel - KGC and cactusjumper like this.

  13. #13

    Mar 2003
    291
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    Thee are many new technologies that do not require the projecting of a test wave. All objects radiate long wave IR. The invention of the Flir imaging system has created a new science of passive detection. Simple thermal imaging can reveal land characteristics that are undetectable using other means. Terrestrial thermography is currently being used for evaluation of potential land slide areas in Washington State as a result of the Oso Slide that killed many people.

    Using comparative rates of temperature change due to solar heating and cooling in an area, a survey of an area can be performed using digital photographs throughout the day and into the evening.

    Magnetic surveying is a different matter. Magnetic detection is easily done, but passive surveying is not effective as a way of using the directional component has not been developed.

    Most underwater surveys utilize a form of sonar. The MH370 fusilage has not been located yet, even though most countries used their most advanced systems in attempts to find the wreckage of this aircraft. Sonar is currently the best technology for mapping shallow areas only.

    On the other end of the EM spectrum you have nuclear detection and monitoring. Newer directional scintillation detectors can accurately measure background levels of gamma radiation. Land areas containing Uranium and other radioactive minerals have been detected with aerial surveys for the last fifty years. Local sources of radioactivity can be pinpointed using crude geiger counters and scintillation detectors.

  14. #14
    us
    Jul 2012
    Albuqerque, NM / Durango, CO
    Garrett Infinium & Gold Bug II, Bazooka Super Prospector Sluice
    2,284
    2252 times
    All Types Of Treasure Hunting
    None of those technologies can be used to detect large masses of metal on the sea floor from orbit
    Swaveab and cactusjumper like this.

  15. #15
    us
    Jul 2015
    Southwest PA
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    Coins and valuable metals
    And they pretty much did not exist during the Mercury launches.
    UncleMatt and cactusjumper like this.

 

 
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