Treasure legends in general. My experience in Mexico.

[Tom_in_CA]

In the very early 1990s, an employee of mine noticed a few metal detectors I had here at my business. He said that his uncle (a recent immigrant from Mexico) was wanting information on what type of detector to buy. So , with my employee acting as the interpreter , I gave that uncle the pro's and con's of different detectors. When I asked "what type objects are you going to be searching for ?", he explained how he returns to Mexico annually, and wanted search for treasures back in his home town villages. And spun several compelling stories of both treasures he was looking for, and treasures that had been found (past tense) by others.

When he got back from his trip, empty handed (except for some cool relics), he again came to me for advice. Convinced he needed something that went deeper, needed more tutorials, etc... And again: Spun several treasure stories that sounded *SO* good.

So he & I hatched a plan that I would simply accompany him on his next year's annual trip. I would be the metal detector consultant expert, and he would be the interpretor/guide. During that year, leading up to our trip, we had long meetings about the treasure stories that we'd be pursuing. And about ones he'd seen recovered, or knew the persons who'd seen past ones recovered.

I suppose I should have been suspicious when various components like "flames that come up out of the ground" (or lights or vapors ) began to be included in the stories. And certain .... uh .... unconventional TH'ing methods were suggested for our upcoming trip . That ... at the time .... I had no way to answer, except to label it as "superstition". Yet had never really encountered the claims. The fellow came to me with magazine ads, showing treasures found from long distances away with the gadgets. Where the finder is proudly posing next to the jars of coins he'd found. Hard to argue with that, eh ? My host was convinced that we needed to invest in these expensive gadgets, with our common pot of travel money.

But the treasure stories were so compelling, that I never saw any of these warning signs.

Once we were down there, deep in the Sierra Madres, hours into the hills along dirt roads, we met into other relatives and village local people . That .... once they saw the metal detectors, likewise regaled us with stories of treasures. Seems that they think there's a treasure in every cave or ruin. Eg.: Conquistadors, Pancho Villa, the village rich men from 150 yrs. ago, the "suspicious shadowy men seen burying something", strange metal, visions and apparitions, etc.... Again, I didn't see the warning signs.

After a week of hunting in various caves and ruins , with no caches so far, I began to ask my host about some of the particular recovered (past tense) stories. That he claimed had been found in recent times. Specifically about the persons he'd alluded to that had found them in the floors, walls, caves, etc.... After some insistence, he finally introduced me to the person(s) . Through translators, I asked to see some of the coins that had been found (past tense). Lo & behold, they hadn't actually seen "the coins". Instead, they had gotten it on good authority from another person, who'd seen the pot of coins recovered. So after some insistence and effort, I am finally introduced to THAT person(s). And .... you guessed it : They too did not see the coins. But not to worry: They got it on good authority from so & so.

And so forth back to permanent regression ! Yet each telling of the story is always told in first person singular present tense ! I began to smell a rat. So I interviewed my host at length about all the other "eye-witness first-person singular " stories he'd told me in the USA. And ... sure as heck, it was the same phenomenon. Yet he was totally sincere !

Or sometimes I was shown coins that had "come from a treasure cache". Yet when we quizzed them deeper, it turns out that that's just what they were told was the origin. And ... who are they to question that ? Well ... gee ... since when hasn't old coins changed back and forth between collectors, since time immortal ?

I came away from that Mexico trip with my "eyes opened". As to how perfectly honest intelligent people can be "swoon" by treasure stories and magic wands. Skepticism and critical thinking is put aside. Because of the psychology of "not wanting to be left out". And holding out hope, so that you're not "laughed at all the way to the bank". I was a participant myself. Regaling my wife of the "immediate need" to go to Mexico, because it will be "child's play" to find more treasures. And ... who can argue with the bullet-proof true stories, that line up perfectly with the 300 yr. old adobe homes, the conquistadors that mined there, the mysterious historic missing wealth (or conversely, the mysterious historic person who got unexplained wealth).

If you suggest to anyone there that their particular favorite treasure story legend is "superstition", it's taken as an insult. It's just that ingrained in their culture. But towards the end , even my hosts were equally beginning to see the telephone game in full swing in all the stories.

But we had fun dreaming and hunting. I found individual coins dating back to the 1830s. The food & tequila was great. The women are beautiful. The mountains and forests of the Sierra Madres there rival the beauty of Yosemite. It was a very educational time, that spurned my education and interest in the arena of Treasure legends (in general) and the unconventional TH'ing methods that seem to go hand in hand with all of them.

 

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[b3y0nd3r]

"When he got back from his trip, empty handed (except for some cool relics), he again came to me for advice. Convinced he needed something that went deeper,"

So your freely admit that you told him the treasure was, "just little deeper, just a little more to the left"?

"If you suggest to anyone there that their particular favorite treasure story legend is "superstition", it's taken as an insult."

Unless of course there is proof to support the treasure legend.

"But towards the end , even my hosts were equally beginning to see the telephone game in full swing in all the stories."

Or was it wack-a-mole? I got those two confused :P

 

[Tom_in_CA]

One humorous incident, that sticks out in my mind from this trip (that is SO representative of the psychology of what's occurring) was the following. Once word had filtered out into this high mountain 300 yr. old town, that "Americanos are here with metal detectors looking for treasure", that we began to get knocks on the door of our house. Persons asking us to come try here or try there with our detectors.

One individual young lad that came over, was telling me, through my interpreter, that he knew of a cave where there was gold or treasure or something. I followed the kid on a mile long hike up into the canyons and mountain. We came to a short-cave with a dirt floor. I could see where he (or others?) had been digging in there looking. I turned on my detector. It was totally silent. I switched into all-metal mode, so as to get the maximum depth. And ........ still sterile ground. Utterly nothing was there (not even a nail-grunt) !

So I told the boy, in my best Spanish "nada metal". And then asked why he thought there was something there. He pointed to the sparkles in the soil (shimmering flakes of grit or whatever). I told him that doesn't mean that there's treasure there. And that it's just naturally occurring colors of grit and soil.

He was not convinced. And began to ask about detectors that go deeper. Convinced that my detector simply didn't go deep enough. And then when I said in Spanish "superstition", he didn't like that one bit. So as you can see, kind of like Oak Island, it's NEVER that a treasure isn't "most certainly there". It's always a little deeper, a little more to the left, a little more to the right, etc.....

 

[Tom_in_CA]

"When he got back from his trip, empty handed (except for some cool relics), he again came to me for advice. Convinced he needed something that went deeper,"

So your freely admit that you told him the treasure was, "just little deeper, just a little more to the left"?

"If you suggest to anyone there that their particular favorite treasure story legend is "superstition", it's taken as an insult."

Unless of course there is proof to support the treasure legend.

"But towards the end , even my hosts were equally beginning to see the telephone game in full swing in all the stories."

Or was it wack-a-mole? I got those two confused :P

I luv ya like a brother b3y0nd3r. We're getting to the point where we can almost anticipate each other's talking-point lines, haha

As for the "unless there is proof to support the treasure legend" : Well OF COURSE there's ALWAY'S "proof". It is: The legend itself ! And unless you or I can DISprove it, it therefore stands rock-solid true and evidentiary. Right ?

 

[timex]

In the very early 1990s,
...
.......
Once we were down there, deep in the Sierra Madres,
.......

I came away from that Mexico trip with my "eyes opened". As to how perfectly honest intelligent people can be "swoon" by treasure stories and magic wands. Skepticism and critical thinking is put aside. Because of the psychology of "not wanting to be left out". And holding out hope, so that you're not "laughed at all the way to the bank". I was a participant myself. Regaling my wife of the "immediate need" to go to Mexico, because it will be "child's play" to find more treasures. And ... who can argue with the bullet-proof true stories, that line up perfectly with the 300 yr. old adobe homes, the conquistadors that mined there, the mysterious historic missing wealth (or conversely, the mysterious historic person who got unexplained wealth).
....
.............

But we had fun dreaming and hunting.

• I found individual coins dating back to the 1830s.
• The food & tequila was great.
• The women are beautiful.
• The The mountains and forests of the Sierra Madres there rival the beauty of Yosemite.

It was a very educational time, that spurned my education and interest in the arena of Treasure legends (in general) and the unconventional TH'ing methods that seem to go hand in hand with all of them.

I Apologize in advance for taking liberty with editing your qouted post, tim.

I enjoyed the read, and take from your experience, to add to my perspective.

I'm so jazzed that you actually traveled to the Sierra Madres & saw 1st hand the beauty of Yosemite.

Those are on my bucket list along with the Grand Canyon.
I went south, Mexico, Dominican Republic, and Cuba.

I loved the recap added at the end!
Those add's, fun & dreaming, they are not monetary, but are priceless in value!!!

Respectfully, tim.

 

[Tiredman]

Tom I read your adventure I would like you to know I enjoyed it. It reminds me of reading the In Search Of Treasure series by Thomas P. Terry. Your adventure if in a book would inspire someone to want to buy a detector.

 

[Zincoln Miner]

"The women are beautiful"

Now that peaks my skepticism.

Thanks for sharing.

I was invited to go to Afghanistan to search for treasure once. I said "No way!", and the same would be for Mexico. I would rather take my chances finding a coin, or two in an old park in a bad neighborhood in ol USA instead.

 

[BillA]

nice story Tom, I suspect that most places are similar in their belief systems at least in Europe and the Americas.
I took a different tack and declined, after an explanation, to even listen to visions, flames, the phase of the moon, etc. It did not reduce the number of solicitants in the slightest, and nothing ever resulted other than old bags of copper coins from one or other of their revolutions - found by accident.
The archaeology treasure stories are quite different, and generally true (my experience). But such is now illegal, wantonly destructive, and without a market. And even at that level, or especially, there are expertly made pieces they will arrange for digging in your presence.

Mexico can be fun with a respected local guide, and avoiding the obvious.

Bill

 

[Robot]

Ah...Treasure Hunting In Mexico...In Its Primitive Form!

I too have been an Ancient Hunter of Treasures in Mexico.

From Marrying a "Bochita Linda" Mayan Yucatan Queen...To Searching for Ritual Gold cast as offerings to their gods into unknown Cenotes.

To

My tale of Jean Lafitte started 35 years ago while I was living in the port town of Progreso in the Yucatan Peninsula.

I had family connections in the Mexican Government and was studying Archaeology of the ancient Mayans, more precisely ancient Mayan Cenotes (wells) and the ritual of tossing in of gold for the appeasement to their Gods.

The American mid-19th century John Stephens had dredged the Cenote at Chichen Itza and recovered $2 million in gold and this find was foremost in my mind.

I had located other isolated Cenotes and wished to treasure hunt the same. (another story).

The Mexican government loaned me their helicopter to research the Gulf of Mexico from Merida up to the Rio la Gatos.

We set down in between at Dzilam De Bravo where I heard the most interesting tale of Jean Lafitte.

It was here at a grave that the locals told me the story that in the early 1800's Jean had arrived by his ship, deathly ill, seeking help.

I was told by the old ones that he was sick and trying to get to Merida for medical help but died on route.

He died at Dzilam De Bravo and was buried there and the locals were proud to show me where his grave was located.

It was always curious to me why this location and what he may have been doing in this remote part of the world?

The best I could surmise is that he was driven out of America once his usefulness was achieved and was searching for a location to conceal his treasure still close to his American routes.

At Progreso, I inquired from the locals and the secret was of an island just 17 kilometers from Progreso (on the map) where when fisherman did risk going there Spanish coins were found on the beach.

At that time I heard the Mexican Government declared this island to be off limits to all.

To this date I always thought of boating out to this island for a pick nick.


A statue dedicated to the pirate Jean Lafitte can be found next to the water by the fishing boats.

In February 1823, the infamous pirate Jean Lafitte, severely wounded from an encounter with Spanish warships, sailed his schooner General Santander westward from the coast of Cuba into oblivion. Lafitte’s fate has remained a mystery for 183 years. Historians and his biographers have offered different theories. Some believe he died of his wounds and was buried on Isla Mujeres, Yucatan’s Isle of Women. Others believe he was buried at Dzilam De Bravo and a monument was erected to mark the site after a hurricane washed the original grave into the sea. Some more fanciful theories are that he recovered from his wounds and sailed to the Mediterranean where he succeeded in rescuing Napoleon Bonaparte from St. Helena. There are many theories. But the one that seems to have the most credence is the one passed down as fact over the generations by the families of Dzilam De Bravo. According to oral history, the dying Lafitte was brought ashore by his brother Philipe and his daughter Lucia. When Jean died, he was buried in the local churchyard. Lucia remained in the village, was adopted by Inez Estrada Cedil, was later married, and the blue-eyed dynasty was begun.
I was curious why Jean Lafitte would have named one of his ships " General Santander" which was of “Columbian Registry, so I researched it.
It appears General Francisco de Paula Santander was a revolutionary leader for South America for its independence from Spain.

Francisco de Paula Santander - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

He fought under Simon Bolivar who became President of the Republic of Columbia.

Jean Lafitte also proclaimed that he was not a pirate but a fighter for the War of Independence of Mexico against Spain.

All the time lines co-ordinate with these three Patriots!

His “Treasure” may have ended up in “Mexico” or maybe even “Bolivia”.


Lafitte and his men continued to take Spanish ships in the Gulf of Mexico, often returning to Galveston or the barrier islands near New Orleans to unload cargo or take on supplies arranged by Pierre. The congressional delegation in Louisiana began to demand that the federal government do something to halt the smuggling, and more U.S. Navy ships were sent to the Gulf. Their patrols and interventions reduced the number of active pirates in the region. In October or November 1821, Lafitte's ship was ambushed as he attempted to ransom a recent prize. After first escaping with some crew, he and his men were captured and jailed. On February 13, he escaped, likely with outside help.

One of the foremost memories was bringing one of the first "Metal Detectors" ever witnessed by the locals...On the beaches of the Yucatan.

It would cause such a sensation, that I would have numerous of the children following me up the beach...though at that time most hits were...beer caps...but within a short distance...I would hit Mexican 1 pesos... enough to buy a...Coca!

I would give it to these children...to go get them a Coca and one for myself.

If...Memories are Treasures...Then I have enough to last a life time!

 

[Tom_in_CA]

...

If...Memories are Treasures...Then I have enough to last a life time!

That was an excellent read Robot ! Thanx for taking the time to type that out.