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  1. #16

    Mar 2015
    679
    3604 times
    All Types Of Treasure Hunting
    Quote Originally Posted by sdcfia View Post
    I was fortunate to have visited the Archaeological Museum in Heraklion, Crete a couple weeks ago. The Minoan cultural treasures in there are totally mind-boggling of course, the craftsmanship superb. Naturally, a small display of recovered hidden precious metals caches caught my eye and my imagination. These two, gold bullion and silver coins, date to about 1500 BCE, at the end of the Minoan run and were recovered at one of the palace sites on the island. They were likely hidden by their owners to avoid being looted by the Mycenaeans, who invaded Crete following the earthquakes and tsunamis that devastated the civilization. These two were found in ceramic vessels hidden under the floors of well-to-do Minoans. Many, many sites remain buried on Crete, making one wonder how much wealth remains cached there.

    Attachment 1709660

    Attachment 1709664
    Hello Sdcfia

    Wow amazing! I always get a kick out of such hoards. I have not heard of that hoard. I have to get my butt into gear and visit Crete one day. It just goes to show treasure hoards have been buried since money first come into existence. Even as I type somewhere in the world illicit money is being hidden due to various reasons. Its easy to see why Europe with its long history of invasion and counter invasion such treasure finds comes to light.

    Kanacki
    Last edited by KANACKI; May 05, 2019 at 08:49 PM.
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  2. #17

    May 2005
    Drake, Costa Rica
    687
    936 times
    Kanacki, I suspect Tom may be experiencing that "experience" deficit I alluded to earlier.

    sdcfia - Indeed, the Minoan culture is amazing beyond description; and reputedly w/o war. We should do so well.

    Xenon
    sdcfia, KANACKI and mdog like this.

  3. #18
    pt
    Sep 2014
    2,647
    6902 times
    The facts behind the factoids
    Quote Originally Posted by BillA View Post
    Kanacki, I suspect Tom may be experiencing that "experience" deficit I alluded to earlier.

    sdcfia - Indeed, the Minoan culture is amazing beyond description; and reputedly w/o war. We should do so well.

    Xenon
    BillA, Crete is a very highly recommended destination. I was there for a month and would happily return for another month or two if circumstances ever allow. It's a lush rugged island with friendly rugged people. Most of the people live close to the north shore - most of the remainder of the island is lightly inhabited or vacant. There are still many traditionalists back in the hills. The south shore faces the Libyan Sea. The topography rises from sea level to 8,000 feet in the middle.

    Unfortunately, Crete's history, like all others, is not lacking in war. All the cities and palaces were walled and heavily fortified, for good reason. The ancient Minoans' surviving weaponry suggests a great proficiency in combat - the bronze swords, daggers, shields, and other items such as the boars tusk helmets attest to that. Later in the 13th century CE when the Venetians took the island, the towns built even more massive walls to protect the harbor towns.

    Then it was the Greeks. It was constant warfare with the Turks, who then controlled Crete for the next long stretch of time until the Cretans fought to finally kick them out and gain independence. They became part of Greece in 1898. Their darkest hours in recent times were when the Nazis invaded during WWII. The resistance was valiant, but the Germans prevailed and murdered entire village populations, burning the buildings to the ground in retaliation for non-compliance. The traditionalists back in the hills have not forgotten that.
    Last edited by sdcfia; May 06, 2019 at 07:21 AM.
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    "Well, yeah, that's just, like, your opinion, man."
    Jeffrey "The Dude" Lebowski, 1998

  4. #19

    May 2005
    Drake, Costa Rica
    687
    936 times
    thanks for the correction re war, its in our genes

    Lee
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  5. #20

    Mar 2015
    679
    3604 times
    All Types Of Treasure Hunting
    Hello BillA

    Tom nah he is alright... I nearly lured him over to the..... Darkside!

    Sdcfia

    Indeed Crete has a bloody history.

    Years ago in the 1980's I met an old WW2 Aussie veteran "Digger" told a story of some of the nightmares he experienced. It was in a bar in Sydney Australia on what they call ANZAC day, bit like Veterans Day I imagine. Where old soldiers get together and remember the fallen.

    Half drunk he told me the following story of when the commonwealth Forces evacuated Greece his company ended up being commanded by an arrogant British pompous aristocratic officer Army officer. Their defensive rear guard action was chaotic ill planed and indecisive failure costing the lives of many of men sent to their death by an incompetent mans ego.

    The Pompous officer had no concept of tactics and was only an officer as he belonged to the "Old Boy school ties" That was prevalent at the time. In other words he had bought commission not a earned one. His bumbling incompetence was killing his men as if they was nothing but cannon fodder to him. The soldier trained to obey orders saw the carnage this officer was creating by poor decisions and would not listen to reason and dismiss logical advice.

    Yet he told me...... some thing snapped in him when he realized he could not even read a map. Before they got totally over run he suggested to his commanding officer go with him behind a olive tree for some better light to look at the map. His commanding officer followed him away from the other troops, the Aussie Digger pulled out a pistol put to his commanding officer head and pulled the trigger. That he told me was it was to save lives....of what men was left.

    He came back to the men. None of them ever said a word....

    One of the many horrors faced fighting in Crete during WW2.

    Yes indeed Crete has had a long bloody history and memories.

    Kanacki
    Last edited by KANACKI; May 07, 2019 at 06:54 PM.
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  6. #21

    May 2005
    Drake, Costa Rica
    687
    936 times
    yes but . . . .
    Greeks and Persians have been going at it for 4,000+ years that we have writing
    and fragging in 'nam was for the same incompetence

    Darius
    sdcfia, KANACKI and mdog like this.

  7. #22

    Mar 2007
    Salinas, CA
    Explorer II, Compass 77b, Tesoro shadow X2
    13,667
    10047 times
    Banner Finds (4)
    Quote Originally Posted by KANACKI View Post
    .... Healthy skepticism in not a bad thing but skepticism coupled with pessimism is recipe of never achieving anything....
    kanacki, good to hear from you. Feel free to PM me anytime

    Re.: your quote above: I don't know where the difference between "skepticism" and "pessimism" lies. Because to a lot of people , ANY "skepticism" is, by their definition "pessimism".

    Call it whatever you want, but .... as for being a recipe for "not achieving anything " (in regards to our MD'ing / TH'ing hobby):

    It is actually QUITE THE OPPOSITE ! Skepticism allows the md'r to spend his time on likely locations. Not wild goose chases. For example, as you can tell, I'm QUITE SKEPTICAL (I have the nick-name: "Killjoy" among my hunting buddies, haha). But I hold probably the most records for any CA hunter (if not the entire USA) for various goals. Like in CA, among the top 2 or 3 hunters with number of Spanish and Mexican reales (well over 100, which is a difficult feat in CA) . And the most gold coins (single fumble fingers, not cache-finds) of 15 so far, etc....

    So .... on the contrary : Some critical thinking (call it skepticism, pessimism, or whatever you want) actually helps out in our hobby. Not hinders.
    BillA and GoDeep like this.

  8. #23

    Mar 2007
    Salinas, CA
    Explorer II, Compass 77b, Tesoro shadow X2
    13,667
    10047 times
    Banner Finds (4)
    Quote Originally Posted by sdcfia View Post
    I was fortunate to have visited the Archaeological Museum in Heraklion, Crete a couple weeks ago. ...
    Mind-boggling pix. Thanx for sharing ! And I'll bet that all of those were not the result of someone chasing a TH'ing legend. That , instead, they were just digging around likely ruins, stumbled onto them, etc.... Not "legends" .
    sdcfia, mdog, GoDeep and 1 others like this.

  9. #24
    pt
    Sep 2014
    2,647
    6902 times
    The facts behind the factoids
    Quote Originally Posted by Tom_in_CA View Post
    Mind-boggling pix. Thanx for sharing ! And I'll bet that all of those were not the result of someone chasing a TH'ing legend. That , instead, they were just digging around likely ruins, stumbled onto them, etc.... Not "legends" .
    Don't know about the particulars in these cases. You're right though - most archaeological finds are surprises, although it's safe to say that the diggers are aware that, aside from normal utility items routinely recovered at virgin sites (that now have great value in their own right due to their age and workmanship), it's also true that humans have always had a tendency to stash valuables in secret locations. It's highly unlikely that any surviving "legends" led to these particular finds.

    The whole realm of treasure legends is addicting. For me, the most interesting aspect has always been not what people believe, but why they believe. Human nature is quite predictive.
    Tom_in_CA, BillA, KANACKI and 4 others like this.
    "Well, yeah, that's just, like, your opinion, man."
    Jeffrey "The Dude" Lebowski, 1998

  10. #25

    Mar 2015
    679
    3604 times
    All Types Of Treasure Hunting
    Quote Originally Posted by sdcfia View Post
    Don't know about the particulars in these cases. You're right though - most archaeological finds are surprises, although it's safe to say that the diggers are aware that, aside from normal utility items routinely recovered at virgin sites (that now have great value in their own right due to their age and workmanship), it's also true that humans have always had a tendency to stash valuables in secret locations. It's highly unlikely that any surviving "legends" led to these particular finds.

    The whole realm of treasure legends is addicting. For me, the most interesting aspect has always been not what people believe, but why they believe. Human nature is quite predictive.
    sdcfia

    Really?

    Two lessons I have learned from life in regards of keeping a long marriage of nearly 40 years? Never try to predict what a women is thinking and never have an opinion. Because I can guarantee you once put a ring is on their finger you become so wrong.

    Kanacki
    Last edited by KANACKI; May 07, 2019 at 08:25 AM.
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  11. #26
    pt
    Sep 2014
    2,647
    6902 times
    The facts behind the factoids
    Quote Originally Posted by KANACKI View Post
    sdcfia

    Really?

    Two lessons I have learned from life in regards of keeping a long marriage of nearly 40 years? Never try to predict what a women is thinking and never have an opinion. Because I can guarantee you once put a ring is on their finger you are wrong.

    Kanacki
    Well, re human nature, I was referring to the way mental conditioning so often and so easily replaces critical thinking in humans - treasure hunting is a prime example, but so are most other more subtle aspects of life on earth.

    Marriage might be looked at as treasure hunting too, I guess. Oh yeah, been there, done it twice before, failed for the reasons you mentioned. This time, however, an LLC was created instead of a ring exchange and has worked much better for 15 years so far. Obligating the rest of my life never worked well for me, but then, looking back I guess my dirt nap farewell might be, "Just Passin' Through".
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    "Well, yeah, that's just, like, your opinion, man."
    Jeffrey "The Dude" Lebowski, 1998

  12. #27

    Mar 2015
    679
    3604 times
    All Types Of Treasure Hunting
    Hello Sdcfia

    The sad truth every county conditions it masses not to have critical thinking. From the cradle to the grave we are manipulated. Buy the time most get to adulthood critical thinking for most is already extinct. Because manipulative forces outside have molded us into expendable commodity to be programmed what to think and how to react.

    Here is funny way how opinion polls get manipulated...below.



    Just a way manipulated data can be represented as factual data so one can put forward their agenda.

    Kanacki
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  13. #28
    us
    TunaTonker

    Nov 2016
    Whites, Garrett, Minelab
    205
    254 times
    All Types Of Treasure Hunting
    Awesome Treasures, but I don't consider these finds those of "Legends" as in a "unverifiable tale handed down over time". As is the case with human nature, no doubt after some of these treasures are found, we try to attribute some legend foretelling of their existence. The entire expanse of Europe is full of Legends about buried or lost treasure, especially Roman, so finding a treasure doesn't necessarily confirm a legend.

    Real treasure exists no doubt and when it's found, it usually isn't found due to the hallmarks of a Legend: deathbed confessions, retreating armies, lost mines, on the run outlaw gangs, stone markers, hand scrawled treasure maps, etc (if anyone can point me to some treasures that were found due to a "Legend" i'd be sincerely interested to read about them). It's been my experience that found treasures of the world were found in one of 3 ways: (1) Through credible and verifiable documentation that it was lost (think shipwreck manifests), (2) randomly (this is especially common in Europe with its expansive and rich history) or lastly, (3) digging in known or probable sites that were ceremonial, ancient cities, temples, burial grounds etc.
    Last edited by GoDeep; May 08, 2019 at 01:52 AM.
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  14. #29
    pt
    Sep 2014
    2,647
    6902 times
    The facts behind the factoids
    Quote Originally Posted by GoDeep View Post
    Awesome Treasures, but I don't consider these finds those of "Legends" as in a "unverifiable tale handed down over time". As is the case with human nature, no doubt after some of these treasures are found, we try to attribute some legend foretelling of their existence. The entire expanse of Europe is full of Legends about buried or lost treasure, especially Roman, so finding a treasure doesn't necessarily confirm a legend.

    Real treasure exists no doubt and when it's found, it usually isn't found due to the hallmarks of a Legend: deathbed confessions, retreating armies, lost mines, on the run outlaw gangs, stone markers, hand scrawled treasure maps, etc (if anyone can point me to some treasures that were found due to a "Legend" i'd be sincerely interested to read about them). It's been my experience that found treasures of the world were found in one of 3 ways: (1) Through credible and verifiable documentation that it was lost (think shipwreck manifests), (2) randomly (this is especially common in Europe with its expansive and rich history) or lastly, (3) digging in known or probable sites that were ceremonial, ancient cities, temples, burial grounds etc.
    Good points. It's not surprising why so many US treasure legends exist in the public domain (some even may have a factual origin), but a person has to wonder why the "facts" presented in these tales are going to be useful in any way for recovering riches. Cognitive dissonance can be a nasty thorn for ordinarily level-headed folks who need to "believe."

    On the other hand, many actual recoveries have been made. These are typically things such as post-hole banks or from information gleaned from private family records - things that remain unknown to the public at large.
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    "Well, yeah, that's just, like, your opinion, man."
    Jeffrey "The Dude" Lebowski, 1998

  15. #30

    May 2005
    Drake, Costa Rica
    687
    936 times
    Quote Originally Posted by KANACKI View Post
    . . . .
    The sad truth every county conditions it masses not to have critical thinking. From the cradle to the grave we are manipulated. Buy the time most get to adulthood critical thinking for most is already extinct. Because manipulative forces outside have molded us into expendable commodity to be programmed what to think and how to react.
    . . . . .
    public education was never intended to produce independent thinkers,
    compliant workers were the goal of Germain public education (1st in our world),
    leaders and thinkers were always intended to receive an education appropriate to their role

    as an old man I can reflect on education as I have experienced it, and seen it in other cultures; and the manifest failure of the US post WWII has to be the educational system - the lives and resources wasted beggars description. The saddest part is that the populace is sooooo conditioned now as to accept the worthless diplomas as equalling "education". "The Ugly American" is an archaic label given to yanks that reflected 50 years ago on US education; and it has not changed (expat speaking).

    and this applies to treasure hunting just how?
    discrimination - sorting the wheat from the chaff (how on earth did discrimination become a bad word? it is my only good trait)
    take it as a given -> all believers will fail (pick one's path, destination the same)
    skepticism is a survival trait

    perhaps a thread of treasure searches that failed?
    lol

    Zeke
    Last edited by BillA; May 08, 2019 at 07:18 AM.
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