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  1. #31
    pt
    Sep 2014
    2,660
    6966 times
    The facts behind the factoids
    Quote Originally Posted by BillA View Post
    public education was never intended to produce independent thinkers,
    compliant workers were the goal of Germain public education (1st in our world),
    leaders and thinkers were always intended to receive an education appropriate to their role

    as an old man I can reflect on education as I have experienced it, and seen it in other cultures; and the manifest failure of the US post WWII has to be the educational system - the lives and resources wasted beggars description. The saddest part is that the populace is sooooo conditioned now as to accept the worthless diplomas as equalling "education". "The Ugly American" is an archaic label given to yanks that reflected 50 years ago on US education; and it has not changed (expat speaking).

    and this applies to treasure hunting just how?
    discrimination - sorting the wheat from the chaff (how on earth did discrimination become a bad word? it is my only good trait)
    take it as a given -> all believers will fail (pick one's path, destination the same)
    skepticism is a survival trait

    perhaps a thread of treasure searches that failed?
    lol

    Zeke
    As George Carlin once observed, our educators begin by inoculating us with the big narrative, then prepare us to run the machines and do the paperwork. One can step out of line and educate himself, but it's hard to swim against a strong current.
    "Well, yeah, that's just, like, your opinion, man."
    Jeffrey "The Dude" Lebowski, 1998

  2. #32
    cr
    May 2005
    Drake, Costa Rica
    716
    971 times
    this world is insane and tragic, George Carlin made it funny as well

    Dofus

  3. #33

    Feb 2017
    433
    589 times
    All Types Of Treasure Hunting
    What my general problem with the discussion here is: It starts with "Legends come true", yet the example treasure troves presented (which absolutely are worth the attention and the drooling) are discovered by pure chance.

    While I think that esp. in Europe we have enough treasure in the ground for generations to hunt for, I am always sceptical about the stories and legends.

    Greets Namxat


    P.S: BillA, the German education system is no longer the best. The liberals destroyed it from several sides. If you look at admissions in the Ivy league, you know were the best education is now: Asia.

  4. #34
    cr
    May 2005
    Drake, Costa Rica
    716
    971 times
    Namxat, yes but . . . .
    some Chinese just paid $6.5m to get their kid into USC (UCLA? all the same to me)
    I did not mean that German public education was the best (probable at that time), merely that it was the first organized on broadly applied principles.

    Agreed by me that an accidental find pursuant to some other activity is not "treasure hunting"

    unless there are turtles, lol

    Atilla
    namxat, Real of Tayopa and mdog like this.

  5. #35
    us
    Aug 2011
    ctx 3030 nokta impact Equinox 800
    986
    1172 times
    Quote Originally Posted by KANACKI View Post
    Hello Tom

    I agree in most part but in some minor points I am not bothering splitting hairs over we just have to agree to disagree, Of course treasure hunting magazine are full of BS they are there to sell magazines. Treasure Books are there to flog books. Newspaper stories are there to sell stories. Even all the reality Treasure hunting are BS. The Point I was trying to make not all treasure legends are just silly stories. It was not my intention as you have taken it for using as "justification for all other treasure legends" must be real.

    I suppose it comes down cognitive bias we all have in our own life experiences. I have won the so called "lottery of life three times." To win it once was amazing but 3 times was a blessing. I will not tell what where and when. The money is in my bank not yours baby! In fact I rather you not believe me at all.

    I have been retired traveled around the world for the last 20 years. I must confess I love researching the old treasure yarns. The people behind these searches and the many failures. In most part more these people are more interesting in the treasure itself. I research treasure legends as well as my colleagues. We researched stories get to get to the truth not just to prove them. As I said 99% are just legends. But there are few are not so easily dismissed.

    Now I do not care to disclose which ones "Why should I? As it has been my companies hard work over many years. Traveled to various universities, archive and libraries all over the world. Regardless if you believe me or not. Firstly and foremost I will always protect my family business interests and never leave myself open for any future incrimination.

    While I imagine your negative experience in Mexico also influences your own cognitive bias. Because of your negative experiences of being sucked into village treasure tale after treasure tale. Yes I can see how foolish it was to believe in such tales. The problem I have with your bias is because of your failure in Mexico you have written off "all" treasure legends being silly legends.

    In fact probably 90% of worlds population would agree with you. Does it mean your totally correct that "all" treasure legends are just legends? No

    We was working in South America like you in Mexico every town had a treasure yarn. Its part of the folk lore. Most are just legends. One such interesting treasure legend refers to 2 lost mining settlements in South America. But according to you all treasure legends are just legends. Is it not?

    Would you like to see some real Original documents....Oh wait according your comments anyone can find document to support their belief so whats point of it all? I could show you gold bars oh wait they can be faked. So we end up into useless and pretty pointless pissing match . Even if I met you in person and put a gold bar in your hand you can say it was from somewhere else. (love your saying wack a mole game ) . So its pointless discussion.

    It reminds me of a joke there two young boys one an optimist the other pessimist. The pessimist was given a big load of toys and he Complained in disgust "There all probably cheaply made and going to fall apart." The Optimist was given a big pile of horse manure and exclaimed in delight "There is got to be a horse under there somewhere?"

    The truth lies somewhere between the two ends of the extremes.

    I like to think I am somewhere in the middle.

    Kanacki
    I am glad I stumbled onto this thread. You made some excellent points while also bringing to light my own personal theories on why certain skeptics are so...skeptical You write well!
    Bucket list still needed:
    • Silver thimble
    • Spanish silver
    • seated half
    • flying eagle
    • early copper
    • 1700's coin
    • 1600's coin
    • silver 3 cent piece
    • nickel 3 cent piece
    • seated quarter
    • capped bust silver
    • draped bust silver
    • silver dollar

  6. #36

    Mar 2015
    679
    3604 times
    All Types Of Treasure Hunting
    My apologies in advance

    I had been in mining exploration industry for over 30 years working with geologists in drilling operations contracted to small mining companies looking for next big strike. These companies are chiefly exploration companies looking to be bought up by bigger companies who have expertise, capital and resources to develop working mine.

    Mostly in New Guinea, South east Asia and finally in South America such as Bolivia, Peru and Ecuador. But the year 2000 there was slump in mining exploration gold prices was at an all time and I some of my associates became obsolete. At 50 no company wants 50 year old humping his ass through jungles. The mining game is ruthless my friends. And when your of no use your thrown to the wolves.

    However in that 30 year you do build up relationships with people. A special bond with people you work with especially living in remote conditions in jungle. Some times you ended up knowing more about your work mates lives than your own family.

    In the process we built up a relationship with Peter Macnab can truly be described as an old PNG hand. Me growing up in New Guinea we had much in common. We was some of the "Whiteys" left behind after independence. In one way or another Mr Macnab, who sees himself as much as a prospector as a technical geologist, has been involved in the discovery of at least half a dozen major gold and copper/gold deposits in Papua New Guinea.

    With then business partner Ken Rehder, he cast the first modern explorer's eyes over what became the rich mine run by Brisbane-based Lihir Gold. I and my associates working for drilling company under contract to them. Money was tight for the company and a share offering. Part wage part shares. However it depended on what financial commitment you had to the amount of share offer you would take up. So it varies between the people involved. Ken and Peter urged us to take as much of the company shares as possible as it would go off.

    At first it seemed we had taken the bad option. Some in frustration sold off their shares. We kept ours. Feeling somewhat burned. To make matters worse in 2000 basically unemployed with very little exploration work being done. But then later Newcrest Mining wanted all the Lihir Gold shares. Our Lihir Gold shares at the time was only 3 dollars 30 cents I think from memory to get our shares because wanted a total 100% merger they offered a share fore share exchange. So they could liquidate Lihir gold as publicly listed company. However Newcrest the 5th largest miner in the world shares was worth about 71 dollars a share at the time.

    We had a windfall of 18 million between us. I cannot explain the exhilaration we had when we revived the offer. Its the closest thing to have a rock and roll concert in brain. As part of the trio we still laugh about it. I remember My old mate Crow that pirate of a beach bum phoning me. He sounded like parrot on speed. Him laughing and howling spitting and stuttering out words real share share price offer.... At first I thought he flipped? Yet at first I thought he was taking the piss out of me. A godsend because we was really out on our asses at the time.

    So you see we profited from relationships with people we has in our limited capacity worked with. One thing if you want to succeed you need to be around people who has the hunger and professionalism and a passion for what they do..

    Peter and Ken was instructed by Australian Bureau of Mineral Resources in the then Territory of Papua and New Guinea from 1965 to 1970, taking part in much of the exploratory mapping of the country. They had been given the letter and a map that was in the Governor Generals Office in Australia Since the German Province was mandated to Australia after world War I. The story got out about a German missionary who was attempting to start a plantation on Lihir island was burying a dead horse as discovered what he thought was gold?

    The German died just before 1914 before World war I and The German Colonial authorities never had chance to confirm the discovery. The letter was captured with piles of other documents when Australian troops captured the German Governors residence when they invaded German New Guinea in 1915.

    Nothing was done in decade of the 1920's after the war because the letter was in a batch of unread documents. However rumors of an island full of gold became legendary in the 1930's. However most miners thought just a camp fire legend. Yet in the 1930s the letter was discovered and newspaper article came out fueling wild speculation. 2 predominate West Australia prospectors was sent to search the island of this alleged gold discovery. Yet this was before WW2 and nothing came of it.

    Hell Even I growing up heard story as a kid in Rabual of an island where there was lot of gold in the 1950's. Most laughed at it as rainbow talk. My dad though it was just a campfire story. Sadly he never lived to see it eventually grew into an amazing discovery. Little did people realize there was some truth what was thought just fairy tale.

    While technically it was not a lost mine but just a reported gold deposit. Still a dead Germans letter and story of gold on an island and become legendary fireside tale in the 1930s with turned out to be real.

    Click image for larger version. 

Name:	Western Star and Roma Advertiser  Saturday 15 February 1930, page 10.jpg 
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ID:	1710507


    I have much more to post, However I have more pressing engagements in regards to business. I have this illusion I am retired however being director of few companies I have obligations to fulfill. Even if I am retired from day to day operations of them. Those more pressing than my slow typing here. I have never graduated from being a one finger typist

    Several key points I will make clear. When it comes to lost treasure lost mines etc... First thing you should never do is suggest treasure or portray yourself as a treasure hunter or anything connected to a treasure "legend" even if there is in part a connection?

    When dealing with governments or academics. Regardless of how viable a project may be its the "kiss of death" The term treasure hunter is an F word when presenting a business proposal. The term treasure hunter is ingrained in public imagination spoon fed by Hollywood. Using the term "Treasure hunter" is like putting "looter" next to your name. To politicians and public servants to be seen dealing with people who portray that persona is like that is like a deer in the gun sights to a political career.

    Secondly if you are person by yourself as a single entity trying to get a government to take you serious forget it . You will be written off as an egocentric or dismissed as part of tin foil hat brigade. As you well know there is hell of lot of them running around.

    Thirdly to companies and investors, the term "Legend" is hardly word you would put into prospectus of Project either.

    While I have said numerous times to the point of having a nose bleed. Some treasures have some truth to them "but not was vast majority".

    But no Academic Company director or Mining professional would ever admit that either. Why would they it would be a kiss of Death to their career. So in effect avoid such references like the plague.

    Exploration companies do unofficially take notice of treasure legends. while indeed they quite rightly have a cautious eye and use Critical skepticism with such stories. They do on occasion do find traces of legends have has assisted them determining a place to search. Yet its not solely on a legend either. If your a exploration company, it the last thing you would ever say on prospectus the above words of treasure, legend. If they did with bad connotation the those words have. The investor wallet closes baby as faster than some people here can jump to conclusions.

    No once again my apologies being a slow singe fingered typist. It quite an effort to share these posts.

    As I said in my first post some times treasure legends some times turn out to true. While most have adopted the official stance of academics and people more interested in the status quo because they fear to challenge a given notion. that to me is not critical thinking.

    Now Tom you have been influenced by your experience, And I read some there your search stage coach stops. Well well done. I imagine you find maps accounts of old stops yes? , But you have to admit that is also speculation that some one has "dropped some coins".

    A treasure legend if properly researched to discover if there is any truth in it? and primary documents show proof of some treasure existed? Then there is not much difference than what you and I are doing.

    Treasure hunting is never an exact science. All research does is increase your odds finding treasure.

    I have more to show you.... But time my friend. Business matters takes place first.

    Until next time....

    Kanacki
    BillA, sdcfia, Ditlihi and 9 others like this.

  7. #37
    cr
    May 2005
    Drake, Costa Rica
    716
    971 times
    Kanacki, had to laugh at the stock for wages; I wound up with 1.7M shares now at $0.03, and no buyers

    Donkey

    edit: had to add that the co which 'gave' me the 1.7M shares moved its production to China and will now go bankrupt due to the "Trump Tariff"
    win some, lose some
    Last edited by BillA; May 08, 2019 at 11:36 AM.
    Real of Tayopa likes this.

  8. #38

    Mar 2007
    Salinas, CA
    Explorer II, Compass 77b, Tesoro shadow X2
    13,667
    10047 times
    Banner Finds (4)
    Quote Originally Posted by GoDeep View Post
    Awesome Treasures, but I don't consider these finds those of "Legends" as in a "unverifiable tale handed down over time". As is the case with human nature, no doubt after some of these treasures are found, we try to attribute some legend foretelling of their existence. The entire expanse of Europe is full of Legends about buried or lost treasure, especially Roman, so finding a treasure doesn't necessarily confirm a legend.

    Real treasure exists no doubt and when it's found, it usually isn't found due to the hallmarks of a Legend: deathbed confessions, retreating armies, lost mines, on the run outlaw gangs, stone markers, hand scrawled treasure maps, etc (if anyone can point me to some treasures that were found due to a "Legend" i'd be sincerely interested to read about them). It's been my experience that found treasures of the world were found in one of 3 ways: (1) Through credible and verifiable documentation that it was lost (think shipwreck manifests), (2) randomly (this is especially common in Europe with its expansive and rich history) or lastly, (3) digging in known or probable sites that were ceremonial, ancient cities, temples, burial grounds etc.
    Excellent post go-deep. Just hope that doesn't qualify as "badgering"

    I would also add that : I've seen the phenomenon where: When someone has accidentally stumbled upon a cache, they instinctively study the surrounding terrain , to see if there had been any "marker clues". Like that couple in CA a few years ago, who stumbled upon the rusty cans filled with gold coins (d/t the top of one of the cans protruding from the ground) : They were on record as saying that there was a curious outcropping of rock, or a tree with an uncanny shape nearby, etc..... As if to imply that there were "marker clues" there by whomever buried them.

    But this is just the trick of selective memory. No doubt, I bet, that anywhere else they randomly stop and look around, they can likewise find uncanny squiggle on rock, or an odd-shaped tree. blah blah
    GoDeep and Real of Tayopa like this.

  9. #39

    Aug 2016
    1,196
    4738 times
    All Types Of Treasure Hunting
    Quote Originally Posted by Tom_in_CA View Post
    Excellent post go-deep. Just hope that doesn't qualify as "badgering"

    I would also add that : I've seen the phenomenon where: When someone has accidentally stumbled upon a cache, they instinctively study the surrounding terrain , to see if there had been any "marker clues". Like that couple in CA a few years ago, who stumbled upon the rusty cans filled with gold coins (d/t the top of one of the cans protruding from the ground) : They were on record as saying that there was a curious outcropping of rock, or a tree with an uncanny shape nearby, etc..... As if to imply that there were "marker clues" there by whomever buried them.

    But this is just the trick of selective memory. No doubt, I bet, that anywhere else they randomly stop and look around, they can likewise find uncanny squiggle on rock, or an odd-shaped tree. blah blah


    Blah, blah....Tom, Darlin, I had hopes that you might have loosened up a bit in my absence but I see you are still terrorizing the natives, as usual. Still no gray in your world, only black and white. I'm relieved that you don't have a religious zeal or you would make the perfect terrorist with your extremist tendencies. Still love ya, but still think you ought to pull that stick out of your hindquarters and learn to dowse with it. Open that mind a little, just not so far your brain falls out. Don't be afraid of your instinct, just use your intellect alongside of it.

    Other than that....how the hell are ya? Glad to see you are still here.

  10. #40

    Aug 2016
    1,196
    4738 times
    All Types Of Treasure Hunting
    And Kanacki, LOVE this thread! Good to see you back again as well.

  11. #41

    Mar 2007
    Salinas, CA
    Explorer II, Compass 77b, Tesoro shadow X2
    13,667
    10047 times
    Banner Finds (4)
    Quote Originally Posted by Ditlihi View Post
    .... Open that mind a little, ....

    Other than that....how the hell are ya? .....
    Doing fine thankyou ! Good to hear from ya And .... sure ... I'll open my mind a little more. Now if you will excuse me, I'm going to use my ouji board to lead me to the turtle marker clues .
    Ditlihi, BillA and Real of Tayopa like this.

  12. #42
    cr
    May 2005
    Drake, Costa Rica
    716
    971 times
    hey Tom, now I'm curious - do turtles in cloud formations count ?
    I mean same direction, size, whatever ??
    BTW, resolution in a ouji board can be increased with a bit of tilt (more resolution = more tilt)

    Tonto
    Ditlihi and Real of Tayopa like this.

  13. #43

    Mar 2007
    Salinas, CA
    Explorer II, Compass 77b, Tesoro shadow X2
    13,667
    10047 times
    Banner Finds (4)
    Quote Originally Posted by BillA View Post
    hey Tom, now I'm curious - do turtles in cloud formations count ?
    I mean same direction, size, whatever ??....
    Bill-A, you are * much too cruel *. Muhahahaa !
    BillA, Real of Tayopa and Ditlihi like this.

  14. #44
    cr
    May 2005
    Drake, Costa Rica
    716
    971 times
    Tom, I'm surprised you did not comment on the resolution booster for a ouji board.
    A Technical Treasure Hunting Tip to increase confidence.
    5 zeros resolution is possible (the board on its side), but it is VERY stable (you have to kick the plumb to move it)

    Mario
    Last edited by BillA; May 08, 2019 at 10:38 PM.

  15. #45
    Charter Member

    Jun 2015
    8,611
    40146 times
    Underwater B.B. stacking
    Kanacki, I agree with Ditlihi in regards to liking your thread. And Ditlihi..........Welcome back ! I for one, have missed your commentaries Many on TNET do not know that Kanacki is much more than meets the eye. He is also involved with relief work, as well as running many successful companies. Some of which involve cutting edge technology as well as exploration. He has traveled the world over. As such, he studied various "treasure legends" as well as developing a friendship with the locals in that particular area. He is extremely modest and humble. When he posts, he is "sharing" his knowledge with the rest of us. I for one am truly impressed with Kanacki and the "Trio" and what they have done and how painstaking they have done what they have done. I first learned of Kanacki and the "Trio" while reading everything on Real de Tayopa Tropical Tramp, also known as Real of Tayopa. To me, Real de Tayopa Tropical Tramp, is a "Treasure Legend" and that is why I started a research program on his life. Kanacki and the "Trio" are also Treasure Legends ! We should all listen to their stories and experiences because nowhere else can we have access to such knowledge and we are extremely fortunate that they post here on TNET and share with everyone, believers as well as non-believers. Great job you guys !

 

 
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