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  1. #61
    cr
    May 2005
    Drake, Costa Rica
    1,679
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    mercy Tom, I'm new at reading your posts but you seem to be fiercely dogmatic

    some, not all
    and again; some, not all

    Kanacki's post above is quite extraordinary in that the details and methodology of a truly huge operation are shown, and I am left shaking my head at the scope and investment. Would be interesting to know the expenses to the point of physical discovery (including both paid and contributed hours and resources).

    Spanish mines in the New World are a most fertile source - of some finds and many (false) legends. But one does not (re)search Spanish activities from North America, or in English; and the best lead in the world is worthless without the resources (including mental, eh) to follow it up.

    Tom, it would seem that much of your ire is for those dilettantes who wish to consider themselves "treasure hunters" using a whopper of a implausible tale to earn their merit badge. Try and remember that we are dealing with a bell-shaped curve, all will be entertained.

    ya know, Kanacki did not say squat about turtles (incomplete investigation? or shielding info?)

    Matthew

    edit: copied from Kanacki's post below:
    "Tom will make the last post on . . . this Topic... "
    we look at the headlight thinking its a light in the window
    Last edited by BillA; May 10, 2019 at 02:53 PM.
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  2. #62

    Mar 2015
    1,075
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    All Types Of Treasure Hunting
    Quote Originally Posted by Tom_in_CA View Post
    Enjoyed your videos. Thanx for the links. At the risk of occupying too much space on the forum, let's just try this : Turn your quote above, around, in the opposite direction (to say the same thing, in reverse) : "..... It becomes all too easy to accept every legend astrue and factual ..."


    So how do we sort out those that are just "imagination gone wild" vs "those with merit" ?

    You CAN NOT go by "those that sound most convincing". Because, sure as heck, a BUNCH of them sound mighty convincing . With pedigrees, cool narratives, skeletons, conspiracies, motives, tips-of-icebergs, etc.. Right ? In which case, you would merely be "relying on the legend to prove the legend". Eh ? And even to try to "sort out fact from fiction" (to "remove the legend" aspect) is fraught with problems. Because, no doubt, you will find that many elements of the story are (gasp) TRUE ! But that fails to take into account that ALL treasure legends are based in truth. Eg.: names, dates, events. But if there was not "treasure" at the end of that, .... what good does all the other data do ?

    Thus to merely find "true elements" of a legend, does not mean "treasure". No treasure legend ever started with "Once upon a time". You can conjecture treasure (quite sincerely) around ANY past historical set of facts. But that doesn't make the treasure part of the conjecture to be necessarily true.

    Tom I am sure you are a re incarnation of Sir Humphery Appbley




    We can go on with this pointless pissing match Tom you are embarrassing yourself. I understand why South Sea Mariner and others have left the forum.

    I do not post here for endless nit picking pissing matches.

    Clearly Tom you are obtuse and we can have endless argument until we go blue in the face. I have much more important issues than verbal diarrhea you have posted above.

    You went to Mexico and failed because you never did any proper research. But your ego will not let you deal with that failure. So because of your failure. You concluded you did not fail, it was the people you went there with making wild assumptions. And concluded all treasure legends are fairy stories? Yet you openly claim to detect stage coach stops under the assumption that coins may be found. Yet a treasure legend if proven to be with real documents to you is nothing but an assumption. Does it not seem a little hypocritical?

    Face it Tom It not the topic that is the problem? Its your ego. We have seen it in many posts in forum I know here many have seen it. The endless arguments with people nitpicking?

    Why is that? Because you got to be the best Tom.

    In your own post you say you have found the the most gold coins in California? if not the whole United States. Isn't that an assumption and very pretentious. I suspect there are many Detectorist than have found many things. But I do not see them glorifying them selves over a Talley and claiming they are the best.

    Why? Your rationale is ego driven. Now everyone reading this please take note

    Tom will make the last post on the this Topic...

    Why "Ego"

    Goodbye Tom

    Kanacki
    Last edited by KANACKI; May 12, 2019 at 08:33 AM.
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  3. #63
    pt
    Sep 2014
    2,929
    7610 times
    The facts behind the factoids
    Quote Originally Posted by BillA View Post
    Kanacki's post above is quite extraordinary in that the details and methodology of a truly huge operation are shown, and I am left shaking my head at the scope and investment. Would be interesting to know the expenses to the point of physical discovery (including both paid and contributed hours and resources).

    Spanish mines in the New World are a most fertile source - of some finds and many (false) legends. But one does not (re)search Spanish activities from North America, or in English; and the best lead in the world is worthless without the resources (including mental, eh) to follow it up.
    Archivo General de Indias in Seville is a must-visit destination if you ever find yourself in that wonderful city. As indicated in the videos, you can just walk right in and marvel at the bookcases and exhibits, but don't expect to bring your legal pad and start doing "treasure research". Barron and his group are turning up impressive documentation and seemingly using it their advantage. Congratulations to their team.

    That said, remember that this is a multi-million $ corporation with top-notch academics on their payroll. This is how you get to access the old documents - money and good connections. Us Joe Schmo's don't have these types of resources. Not impossible, but not easy either. Take a look at this: General Archive of the Indies, Seville | Dissertation Reviews

    For decades I've supported a point raised in this thread: 99% of the "information" available on "treasure legends" is horse-pucky. Fun, imaginative, intriguing, yes, but not leading you to your heart's desire. That's not to say that a few of the tales don't have some truth to them, but if a treasure exists for the finding, you will only recover it using proprietary information.
    Last edited by sdcfia; May 10, 2019 at 08:41 AM.
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  4. #64

    Mar 2007
    Salinas, CA
    Explorer II, Compass 77b, Tesoro shadow X2
    13,667
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    Banner Finds (4)
    Quote Originally Posted by sdcfia View Post
    ... That's not to say that a few of the tales don't have some truth to them,....
    All of them have truth in them. Names, dates, events, around which the treasure-story is built. But the million dollar question is (no pun intended) : Is there a treasure ?

    But as for your "horse-pucky" statement : Watch out. You don't wanna get reprimanded

  5. #65

    Mar 2015
    1,075
    4741 times
    All Types Of Treasure Hunting
    Greetings all.

    I just got back from Indonesia. I have some more things to Add.

    You might like the following story below.

    For centuries it was just a legend, that a vast trove of treasure had spilt into China’s Minjiang River as a battle raged upon its banks. Turns out, it was true.

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    Zhang Xianzhong or Chang Hsien-chung(September 18, 1606 – January 2, 1647), nicknamed Yellow Tiger, was a leader of a peasant revolt from Yan'an, Shaanxi Province. He conquered Sichuan in 1644, and named himself king of the Xi (Da-Xi) dynasty. His rule in Sichuan was brief and he was killed by the invading Manchu army. He is commonly associated with the massacres in Sichuan that depopulated the region.

    One such treasure legend attributed to him. That he was traveling by boat along with looted treasure when he was counter attacked and most of the boats and treasure was lost in height of battle.

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    For centuries the treasure was lost believed by locals as a treasure legend. Academics at one time believed the story of lost treasure was nothing more than a legend.

    However with advances in technology the lost treasure legend turned out to be True.

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    More than 10,000 individual items of gold and silver have been recovered from the bottom of the river as it winds its way through Sichuan Province.

    Chinese archaeologists have confirmed its many pieces date from between 1368 and 1644AD.

    This places it squarely in the scope of the tale of how the leader of a Chinese peasant uprising lost his hoard when ambushed while attempting to move it south aboard 100 boats.

    For centuries, it was just a story. A rumour.

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    “The objects uncovered are the most direct and compelling evidence to identify the area where the battle was fought,” Wang Wei, a Chinese archaeologist, told the state-run Xinhua news agency.

    The trove was found at the intersection of the Minjiang and Jinjiang rivers, some 50km south of the capital of Sichuan, Chengdu.

    It was 2005 when the first indications that the site may have significance emerged. Construction workers pulled seven silver bullion ingots from the gravel of the river bank. The site was declared a protected area in 2010, though Xinhua reports treasure hunters have repeatedly raided the site. Excavation efforts involved draining a 10,000 square meter section of the river using pumps and retaining walls. Large quantities of gold, silver and bronze were uncovered in the form of coins, jewellery and weapons.
    Many pieces remain in good condition, the archaeologists report, with inscriptions on several gold and silver utensils still clear to read.

    Archaeologists say they expect to continue digging at the site until April 2017.

    A treasure legend verified by archaeologists with the discovery of treasure?

    Kanacki
    Last edited by KANACKI; Sep 04, 2019 at 05:35 AM.

  6. #66
    Charter Member

    Jun 2015
    12,194
    56906 times
    Underwater B.B. stacking
    What a great piece Kanacki. This is a wonderful example of how a "Legend" could be tied to an actual fact. I have always felt that there is a certain element of truth in a Legend, and perseverance may have proven this instance.
    embrym and Real of Tayopa like this.

  7. #67

    Mar 2015
    1,075
    4741 times
    All Types Of Treasure Hunting
    Hello Simon

    As I have always said most treasure legends with research will turn out to be just legends. But there is some will turn out to have some truth to them. While its unrealistic to believe all treasure legends are true or all treasure legends are just legends.

    Kanacki

  8. #68

    Mar 2015
    1,075
    4741 times
    All Types Of Treasure Hunting
    Here is some more of the treasures uncovered.

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    I do not know the estimated value of the treasure discovered as far as I am aware the Chinese government has not put a value on it as it is claimed not doubt as cultural patrimony.

    Kanacki
    Last edited by KANACKI; Sep 04, 2019 at 07:12 PM.

  9. #69

    Mar 2015
    1,075
    4741 times
    All Types Of Treasure Hunting
    But the Yellow Tiger treasure legend above is not a singular event. As highlighted before just one of few treasure legends that have become reality.

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    There are others....

    Kanacki
    Last edited by KANACKI; Sep 04, 2019 at 07:15 PM.

  10. #70

    Mar 2015
    1,075
    4741 times
    All Types Of Treasure Hunting
    Hello Simon hopefully the pictures will come through. I have re posted them.

    Kanacki

  11. #71

    Mar 2015
    1,075
    4741 times
    All Types Of Treasure Hunting
    Here is another treasure legend that turned out to be true.

    The adventure started when an elderly lady told one man that according to an ancient legend there is big, old silver treasure buried somewhere on a certain field in Jutland, Denmark.

    The man told three friends about what he had heard. Now, the four of them had a choice to make. They could either dismiss the story as a work of fiction, or search for the legendary treasure.

    They decided to find out if there really was an ancient treasure buried somewhere on Jutland and today, they cannot say they regret their decision.

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    They discovered 50 silver coins from the period 1586-1656. The four men behind the findings are Bjørn Christian Sorensen, Heinrich Olesen, Lars Hebsgaard and Simon Bay Kristensen.

    On December 27, 2016, while scanning the ground on a field in Tjørring just outside Herning with metal detectors, the treasure hunters found something of great value.

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    The men do not wish to reveal the exact location of where the silver treasure was found, but the coins have been examined by experts who concluded they are genuine. Curator Martin Olesen at the local museum says the silver coins are very valuable and of great importance. All of the coins depict King Christian IV.

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    When asked why Danish people had to hide their money, Olesen explained that King Christian IV’s failed foreign policy should be blamed. People were simply terrified the Swedes would come and steal everything they owned, so to be on the safe side they buried their possessions.

    Christian IV (1577-1648) was king of Denmark and Norway and brought disaster upon his country. He led two unsuccessful wars against Sweden and he led his country into the Thirty Years’ War, one of the longest and most destructive conflicts in European history.

    While I have always stated treasure legends should be carefully researched for their validity. While some people outright dismiss treasure legends as pure folly?

    I daresay that is their loss and other peoples potential gain.

    Kanacki
    Last edited by KANACKI; Sep 04, 2019 at 07:54 PM.

  12. #72
    cr
    May 2005
    Drake, Costa Rica
    1,679
    2387 times
    Hi Kanacki
    First heard about the river activity through an article on the increasing appearance of items leading the police to the smugglers to the formal discovery.
    no idea where the article was

    edit: actually remembered, see if it is as mentioned
    http://www.thehistoryblog.com/archives/46433
    Last edited by BillA; Sep 04, 2019 at 09:06 PM.

  13. #73

    Mar 2015
    1,075
    4741 times
    All Types Of Treasure Hunting
    Hello Bill

    Thanks for the link. I know looted coins have been leaking out of Hong Kong the last few years. I imagine the interrogation by the communists of the looters was not pretty.

    But the fact of matter this discovery would never had been known if they had not been busted... One could speculate how many other treasure legends have been found but actually never see the light of day because they are illegally looted antiquities?

    The coin below was sold for 16000 USD

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    Kanacki
    Last edited by KANACKI; Sep 05, 2019 at 12:40 AM.

  14. #74
    cr
    May 2005
    Drake, Costa Rica
    1,679
    2387 times
    Hi Kanacki

    Don't have 16k, but lord that is a slick coin. Any idea what the characters mean? (Made in China, lol)
    The site linked to is excellent for lovers of history, antiquities, and treasure as well.

    Are those coins cast? Sure looks like that.
    What is the name of the coin? (looked but could not find)

    edit3: some answers
    https://www.ebay.com/itm/39-Collecte...kAAOSw4OJc49Yu
    $3500.00
    who wudda thought, a counterfeit cheaper than a (presumed) original

    edit4: copy is a better label, not presented as genuine
    Last edited by BillA; Sep 05, 2019 at 10:26 AM.
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  15. #75

    Mar 2015
    1,075
    4741 times
    All Types Of Treasure Hunting
    Hello Bill

    That's one of perils of Asian antiquities everything can be counterfeited. Its hard to know whats real and whats fake. The coin collecting industry are not immune to such fakes. The is big market with counterfeit roman coins. Same with South American artifacts.

    Kanacki
    Last edited by KANACKI; Sep 05, 2019 at 06:48 PM.
    BillA, Simon1 and Real of Tayopa like this.

 

 
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