When a treasure legend becomes a reality.
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  1. #1

    Mar 2015
    679
    3604 times
    All Types Of Treasure Hunting

    When a treasure legend becomes a reality.

    Hello All.

    In reality most treasure legends are just legends evolved from a miss mash of stories being repeated over and over. Where does the fiction ends and where the truth begins? The following story comes from region in Normandy with invariable long history conquest and looting. Such areas are full of stories. One such treasure legend was based on vague stories about an ancient treasure and mysterious temples of Roman Gaul.

    Was it romanticized wishful thinking or residue memory passed through the local generations through the centuries? One thing for sure the odd discoveries inflamed imaginations over years of the locals creating wild stories.

    You could rightfully imagine such stories gave the hardworking rural poor a little ray of hope of a dream of making a big discovery? But the horrible reality even with best of research it is still in effect a lottery.

    Yet in 1830 a poor farmer in Villeret a small rural hamlet, while plowing a field, the plow came across some old roman tiles.

    Well versed in the old local legends of treasure he decided to explore further.

    If anyone was going to discover a fabulous treasure this poor farmer aptly named "Prosper Taurin" Was the lucky finder.

    Digging under the roman tiles in faint hope of finding some thing. He discovered perhaps one of the greatest finds of Roman silver in history?

    As you can see below.

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    Under French treasure trove laws any treasure found on private land is shared between the finder and landholder. Prosper Taurin under French treasure trove laws at the time still followed Napoleonic law on treasure trove. And the laws states the finder and landholder owns what is found on a 50/50 basis. So Prosper Taurin won on all accounts.

    There was no need to secretly sell the items or melt down the treasure for the silver. As you could see in the following picture would of been travesty. To destroy such historical artifacts for its silver content.

    The authorities bought the find off him for 15000 francs. Some say he was duded but if you you look in the concept of 1830 prices 15000 francs may of been a lot of money back then. Today the Roman Gaulish treasure today is priceless. As you can see the quality in some of items below.

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    The majority of treasure was silver but there was some gold as well as seen below.

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    Here is a more detail of exquisite design.

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    The treasure it appears was hidden during collapse of the Roman Empire. The Statues was believed to be presentation of Roman God Mercury.

    The collection is housed in national museum of France. But I believe a few years ago the collection make its first trip to the United States touring some of largest museums other there.

    So while indeed most legends are most likely just legends and it would be fool hardly to believe all such treasure legends to be real. It is also fool hardly to right off some treasure legends not having a grain of truth in some of them also.

    Kanacki
    Last edited by KANACKI; May 04, 2019 at 06:08 AM.

  2. #2

    Mar 2015
    679
    3604 times
    All Types Of Treasure Hunting
    Hello Again

    The above treasure hoard was suspected to have been looted from the temple of Mercury? The temple on top of dormant volcano in central France was excavated below in 1875 .

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    Here is ruins of Ruined temple of Mercury.



    It has been said 2 other treasure hoards may be connected to the temple of Mercury.

    Below is reconstruction on how the temple may of looked?

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    Kanacki
    Last edited by KANACKI; May 04, 2019 at 02:10 AM.

  3. #3

    Mar 2015
    679
    3604 times
    All Types Of Treasure Hunting
    Hello All

    in 1883 another hoard of silver was found in northern France in Place called Chaourse

    The Chaourse Treasure is made up of 39 objects in total, all of which are silver apart from five small vessels and a silvered bronze mirror. There are four large serving platters; one of which has the swastika in its central medallion, another has a gilded figure of the Roman god Mercury holding his caduceus flanked by a ram and a cockerel.

    In addition, there are plain silver drinking cups, various jugs, two large situlas one of which has an acanthus-scroll frieze, shallow plates, hemispherical bowls (one of which was used for washing hands), flanged and fluted bowls (some with engraved decoration of animals amid floral patterns), some mirrors, an ornate strainer with floral and geometric designs, a statuette of the deity Fortuna and a pepper-pot in the shape of an African slave-boy.

    Such wealth was probably the personal wealth of wealthy Roman. But religious items may of linked horde to the temple of Mercury. Where wealthy offers was donated to the Gods. After the disintegration of the Roman empire whole region living quite contently under Roman protection became pray to invaders and incursions by barbarians.

    Roman society in France as well as Britain progressively fell apart descending into feuding fractions in a gradual decline, that forced owners of large wealthy roman estates to bury their wealth in an onslaught from barbarian invasions such as the Vandals and the Goths.

    The British Museum now holds this treasure as you can see in the picture below.

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    Kanacki

  4. #4

    Mar 2015
    679
    3604 times
    All Types Of Treasure Hunting
    Another treasure cache associated to the god mercury.

    The Mâcon Treasure or Macon Treasure is the name of a Roman silver hoard found in the city of Mâcon, eastern France in 1764. Soon after its discovery, the bulk of the treasure disappeared, with only 8 silver statuettes and a silver plate identified as being part of the original find. All of these objects are now in the British Museum as you can see below.

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    Early reports suggest that the treasure included over 30,000 gold and silver coins, a wide range of jewellery, five plates and a large number of silver figurines. Most of these objects disappeared, presumably to be melted down for the value of their bullion. Just eight statuettes and one silver plate remain from the original treasure.

    Four of the statuettes represent the Roman deity Mercury, who was widely worshipped in Roman Gaul. Other images of deities represented include the moon-goddess Luna, Genius and Jupiter, who is clasping a thunderbolt. Perhaps the most impressive item in the treasure is the small figure of a tutela, the goddess of chance or fortune.

    She is shown carrying in her hand a plate and busts of various divinities and between her wings are placed images of gods of the seven days of the week: Saturn, Sol, Luna, Mars, Mercury, Jupiter and Venus. The only other item associated with the treasure is a large circular dish made of silver.

    Mercury was worshiped all over France. I have no doubt the temple at one time housed vast treasures from donations of Roman worshipers over hundreds of year before its own destruction. The three above treasure caches may have connections to the temple of Mercury, but nothing can be proved conclusively. But it is safe to say during fall of the Roman empire and gradual decline of Roman France, much of these treasures was dispersed through the regions in the ebb and tide of fortunes of war. As you can see a very futile ground of how treasure legends over time become ingrained in society generation after generation.

    Kanacki

  5. #5

    Mar 2007
    Salinas, CA
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    Quote Originally Posted by KANACKI View Post
    .... So while indeed most legends are most likely just legends and it would be fool hardly to believe all such treasure legends to be real. It is also fool hardly to right off some treasure legends not having a grain of truth in some of them also....
    Kanacki, I have several comments to your post :

    a) I'm glad you conclude that most all legends are just that: Legends via camp-fire telephone game gone awry. We agree on that point. However :

    b) To point to a singular legend, somewhere in the world, that "came true" (ie.: turned out that it wasn't a legend), in no way "gives hope" to the other legends. It would be like pointing out how foolhearty it is to play the lottery. Because the odds are 1 in 100,000,000,000. Yet someone who thinks that playing the lottery is "wise" (ie.: that there's hope, and not-to-'diss the lottery) can simply point to the fellow that won the lottery last year.

    But as you can see: To point to the single lottery winner, doesn't change the fact that: It's fool-hearty to play the lottery. The single winning ticket, doesn't change the fact that .... the rest of them are loosing ticket. To compare to legends: The single legend that came true, doesn't change the fact that the rest of them are just imaginations-run-wild.

    c) As for the "grain of truth" part of your post, I'll even go a step further than that : They don't simply have a "grain" of truth in them. All the legends are "mostly" true. Heck, I'll even grant 99% true. What I mean by that is: All the legends are built around real names, dates, and events. None of them ever started with "Once upon a time". Right ? But if there's no treasure, then all those "true components" don't do a durned bit of good to the TH'r.

    And this is where it gets funny: Because to anyone who gets swept up in the legends, and starts "researching them" to "sort fact from fiction", well ... gee .... it's going start adding up as factual REAL fast. So this just becomes more fuel-for-the-fire that : "There really must be a treasure involved in this".
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  6. #6

    Mar 2007
    Salinas, CA
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    Example for the "grain of truth" :

    A buddy of mine sent in a treasure story to one of the TH'ing magazines, back in the 1970s. Back when the TH'ing magazines were always filled with "lost mine" and "stolen stagecoach loot" and "missing military payroll" type stories. He did so just to have fun, and to get the $100 article-acceptance pay. His story was totally made-up fancy. But he built it around real events. Eg.: A certain robbery in a certain ghost town, to which he could then have a "faded newspaper clipping" to show. And various actual names, dates, events in that town. And various conceivable motives, surrounding landmarks in the country, etc...... Then he adds a drawing of a miner posed next to his burro. And ... by-golly ... it must be true.

    And as you can see, anyone who went to research my friend's story, would indeed come up with scores of verifiable data. And if any skeptic tried to tell the researcher "this is probably just a legend or silly story", then the believer could merely say : "Gee, ya never know. After all, there is this story in Normandy about a legend-that-came true".

    So as you can see, we can't go by the "flukes" as having any bearing on likeliness.

    JMHO
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  7. #7

    Mar 2015
    679
    3604 times
    All Types Of Treasure Hunting
    Here is the ironic catch to these hidden treasure hoards if your lucky enough to find a treasure hoard and legally get to keep it.

    For example so many treasure hoards are being found the price of Roman silver coins is not as expensive as you think.

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    Theses coins in the picture above was part of a treasure Hoard. Depending on quality and fineness of the coins are selling from between 400 and 600 USD per coin. If they melt the coins down for silver they would get far less. Its the collectors value that determines their value.

    In effect the above hoard of 200 of the best quality coins will command that price. There are many other coins selling far less than those prices due to poor quality and condition. The 200 of the best coins will eventually generate 100000 USD. But people do not realize that can take a long time to sell to collectors on the open market interested in Buying Roman coins.

    The returns do not generate the vast fortunes many people fantasies about. However 100 k is still nothing to sneeze at. Such treasure hoards rarely end up in multi millions of dollars. However there has been a few exceptions.

    Kanacki

  8. #8

    Mar 2015
    679
    3604 times
    All Types Of Treasure Hunting
    Hello Tom

    I agree in most part but in some minor points I am not bothering splitting hairs over we just have to agree to disagree, Of course treasure hunting magazine are full of BS they are there to sell magazines. Treasure Books are there to flog books. Newspaper stories are there to sell stories. Even all the reality Treasure hunting are BS. The Point I was trying to make not all treasure legends are just silly stories. It was not my intention as you have taken it for using as "justification for all other treasure legends" must be real.

    I suppose it comes down cognitive bias we all have in our own life experiences. I have won the so called "lottery of life three times." To win it once was amazing but 3 times was a blessing. I will not tell what where and when. The money is in my bank not yours baby! In fact I rather you not believe me at all.

    I have been retired traveled around the world for the last 20 years. I must confess I love researching the old treasure yarns. The people behind these searches and the many failures. In most part more these people are more interesting in the treasure itself. I research treasure legends as well as my colleagues. We researched stories get to get to the truth not just to prove them. As I said 99% are just legends. But there are few are not so easily dismissed.

    Now I do not care to disclose which ones "Why should I? As it has been my companies hard work over many years. Traveled to various universities, archive and libraries all over the world. Regardless if you believe me or not. Firstly and foremost I will always protect my family business interests and never leave myself open for any future incrimination.

    While I imagine your negative experience in Mexico also influences your own cognitive bias. Because of your negative experiences of being sucked into village treasure tale after treasure tale. Yes I can see how foolish it was to believe in such tales. The problem I have with your bias is because of your failure in Mexico you have written off "all" treasure legends being silly legends.

    In fact probably 90% of worlds population would agree with you. Does it mean your totally correct that "all" treasure legends are just legends? No

    We was working in South America like you in Mexico every town had a treasure yarn. Its part of the folk lore. Most are just legends. One such interesting treasure legend refers to 2 lost mining settlements in South America. But according to you all treasure legends are just legends. Is it not?

    Would you like to see some real Original documents....Oh wait according your comments anyone can find document to support their belief so whats point of it all? I could show you gold bars oh wait they can be faked. So we end up into useless and pretty pointless pissing match . Even if I met you in person and put a gold bar in your hand you can say it was from somewhere else. (love your saying wack a mole game ) . So its pointless discussion.

    It reminds me of a joke there two young boys one an optimist the other pessimist. The pessimist was given a big load of toys and he Complained in disgust "There all probably cheaply made and going to fall apart." The Optimist was given a big pile of horse manure and exclaimed in delight "There is got to be a horse under there somewhere?"

    The truth lies somewhere between the two ends of the extremes.

    I like to think I am somewhere in the middle.

    Kanacki
    Last edited by KANACKI; May 05, 2019 at 03:50 AM.

  9. #9

    Mar 2007
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    Quote Originally Posted by KANACKI View Post
    .... It was not my intention as you have taken it for using as "justification for all other treasure legends" must be real. ...
    Sure. Perhaps that was not your intention. But I can guarantee you that it is exactly the outcome that happens. Because ANY TIME someone like me goes to 'diss a silly treasure legend, then .... a post like yours (with a "treasure legend that came true") is sure to be paraded out as an example of why there's hope and truth in all treasure legends. And why we should (gasp) never 'diss treasure legends.

    So while you're saying that's "not your intention", it is indeed the outcome.

    Quote Originally Posted by KANACKI View Post
    ........ The truth lies somewhere between the two ends of the extremes. .... ...
    And then guess what happens ? Every single treasure-legend enthusiast, of course, considers their particular legend to be on the "correct side" (ie.: true) of those two-ends. No one ever considers that theirs is a fairly tale.
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  10. #10
    Charter Member
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    Feb 2017
    Georgetown, SC
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    Kanacki, an interesting series of stories on Roman treasure hoards. Thanks. Europe's sources of treasures go back so much further than here in the States. Your entire continent is no doubt still littered with undiscovered treasure.

    Tom in Ca., this was an interesting post. Relax, will you?
    mdog, Ditlihi and Oroblanco like this.


    "And so the population was gradually led into the demoralising temptations of arcades, baths, and sumptuous banquets. The unsuspecting Britons spoke of such novelties as 'civilisation', when in fact they were only a feature of their enslavement." Tacitus, Roman Senator and Historian, written AD 98.

  11. #11

    Mar 2007
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kray Gelder View Post
    .... Tom in Ca., this was an interesting post. Relax, will you?
    haha, sure . Now if you'll excuse me, I'm going to go in search of the lost dutchman , the pearl ship, and the yamashita treasure. After all, ya never know
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  12. #12

    May 2005
    Drake, Costa Rica
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    Tom, watch for the turtles

    Piero

  13. #13

    Mar 2015
    679
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    All Types Of Treasure Hunting
    Quote Originally Posted by Tom_in_CA View Post
    Sure. Perhaps that was not your intention. But I can guarantee you that it is exactly the outcome that happens. Because ANY TIME someone like me goes to 'diss a silly treasure legend, then .... a post like yours (with a "treasure legend that came true") is sure to be paraded out as an example of why there's hope and truth in all treasure legends. And why we should (gasp) never 'diss treasure legends.

    So while you're saying that's "not your intention", it is indeed the outcome.



    And then guess what happens ? Every single treasure-legend enthusiast, of course, considers their particular legend to be on the "correct side" (ie.: true) of those two-ends. No one ever considers that theirs is a fairly tale.
    Hello Tom

    Now again that comment above is an assumption everyone thinks that way? "Every" is assuming no one considers the story they are researching is a fairy tale? Now Tom that is clearly an assumption.

    Healthy skepticism in not a bad thing but skepticism coupled with pessimism is recipe of never achieving anything.

    While we hold much common ground there differences of opinion in some detail. If you are interested Tom PM me and we see what develops? I might show you a few things?

    Kanacki

    Coffee?
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  14. #14
    pt
    Sep 2014
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    The facts behind the factoids
    Quote Originally Posted by KANACKI View Post
    Here is the ironic catch to these hidden treasure hoards if your lucky enough to find a treasure hoard and legally get to keep it.

    For example so many treasure hoards are being found the price of Roman silver coins is not as expensive as you think.

    Click image for larger version. 

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    Theses coins in the picture above was part of a treasure Hoard. Depending on quality and fineness of the coins are selling from between 400 and 600 USD per coin. If they melt the coins down for silver they would get far less. Its the collectors value that determines their value.

    In effect the above hoard of 200 of the best quality coins will command that price. There are many other coins selling far less than those prices due to poor quality and condition. The 200 of the best coins will eventually generate 100000 USD. But people do not realize that can take a long time to sell to collectors on the open market interested in Buying Roman coins.

    The returns do not generate the vast fortunes many people fantasies about. However 100 k is still nothing to sneeze at. Such treasure hoards rarely end up in multi millions of dollars. However there has been a few exceptions.

    Kanacki
    I was fortunate to have visited the Archaeological Museum in Heraklion, Crete a couple weeks ago. The Minoan cultural treasures in there are totally mind-boggling of course, the craftsmanship superb. Naturally, a small display of recovered hidden precious metals caches caught my eye and my imagination. These two, gold bullion and silver coins, date to about 1500 BCE, at the end of the Minoan run and were recovered at one of the palace sites on the island. They were likely hidden by their owners to avoid being looted by the Mycenaeans, who invaded Crete following the earthquakes and tsunamis that devastated the civilization. These two were found in ceramic vessels hidden under the floors of well-to-do Minoans. Many, many sites remain buried on Crete, making one wonder how much wealth remains cached there.

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    Last edited by sdcfia; May 05, 2019 at 08:01 PM.
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    "Well, yeah, that's just, like, your opinion, man."
    Jeffrey "The Dude" Lebowski, 1998

  15. #15

    Mar 2015
    679
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    All Types Of Treasure Hunting
    Quote Originally Posted by Kray Gelder View Post
    Kanacki, an interesting series of stories on Roman treasure hoards. Thanks. Europe's sources of treasures go back so much further than here in the States. Your entire continent is no doubt still littered with undiscovered treasure.

    Tom in Ca., this was an interesting post. Relax, will you?
    Hello Kray Gelder

    Yes Europe has long history. Very rich folklore many treasure legends and a few real missing treasures.

    This one below is Turkish ottoman coins. Several thousand. Looted by a Jewish Romanian General during the Russo-Turkish War of 1877–78. Only for his descendants to rounded up by Romanian Nazi forces and exterminated. The Jug was hidden some time before the Nazis invaded in 1941. I believe you can still buy some of them on line. They only command low prices about 30 -40 USD. Because there are millions of them. Found across all of eastern Europe and Turkey. Ottoman Empire produced millions of coins throughout its period of existence.

    Kanacki

    Still a cool find.

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