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  1. #16
    cr
    May 2005
    Drake, Costa Rica
    708
    960 times
    the internet has changed the world (my self image is 'me' with a bix box growing out the side of my head, changing colors and brightness, lol)

    I see what you are showing above but am ever more convinced the gold in CR is placer (confirmational bias Dilithi would say).
    I have a good friend with the relations to go into Talamanca, but I cannot do so physically. No evidence of a source, just placer. And totally out environmentally.

    back to reading

    Bill
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  2. #17

    Mar 2015
    679
    3604 times
    All Types Of Treasure Hunting
    Hello BillA

    Here is a 1630 map below from Harvard university. It shows a place called Aranxues the map in previous post dated 1775 the name is Aranyuez.

    Click image for larger version. 

Name:	1630 map from harvard ubiverisity.JPG 
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    We can draw 3 different possible conclusions.

    1/ two different places.
    2/ Name spelling changed over time in the 105 year time period?
    3/ language Linguistic spelling interpretations of the same name? 1630 map by a Spaniard. 1775 by an English speaker.

    Some to work with further...

    Kanacki
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  3. #18

    Mar 2015
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    3604 times
    All Types Of Treasure Hunting
    Hello BillA

    Years ago research was long drawn out contacting various libraries and institutions by snail mail. today that is much easier.

    Modern miss perception of these mines are 19th century style underground mine workings with stone buildings. Yet Most of these early 16th century mines was most likely placer workings and ecomindas living conditions was most likely very crude with no large traceable stone buildings as such . Even if you manage to track down the site of these historic mines it may be already under an active mining lease or like you said under environmental ban. Depending on which side of the border the mine sits on. Most larger exploration companies want large ore bodies to exploit because they work to economies of scale.

    Kanacki
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  4. #19
    cr
    May 2005
    Drake, Costa Rica
    708
    960 times
    Hola Kanacki

    yes, most old references with detail mention rios and washing
    I would add that I personally am not seeking any placers, they are all around me (just stay with the locals).

    Bill

    edit: if the (preponderance of ?) old/original references do not identify a hardrock mine as such (crushing for eg.),
    then the search for such a mine is not, by definition, a Spanish mine
    no ?
    Last edited by BillA; May 20, 2019 at 10:26 AM.
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  5. #20

    Mar 2015
    679
    3604 times
    All Types Of Treasure Hunting
    Quote Originally Posted by BillA View Post
    Hola Kanacki

    yes, most old references with detail mention rios and washing
    I would add that I personally am not seeking any placers, they are all around me (just stay with the locals).

    Bill

    edit: if the (preponderance of ?) old/original references do not identify a hardrock mine as such (crushing for eg.),
    then the search for such a mine is not, by definition, a Spanish mine
    no ?
    Hello BilA

    If we look at the definition Placer mining.

    Placer mining is the mining of stream bed (alluvial) deposits for minerals. This may be done by open-pit (also called open-cast mining) or by various surface excavating equipment or tunnelling equipment.

    In essence a placer mine could of once existed and worked placer deposits would be considered a mine. For me I believe the Spanish exploited the deposits by placer mining using a slave workforce. Using crude recovery techniques such as gold washing alluvial soils and retrieving nuggets in the river beds.

    Now there has been since the Spanish period, other mines have been worked. Knowing which site was actual Spanish mining site or modern 19th /20th century sites need archaeological evidence.

    As you know in the American South West for example there are perhaps hundreds maybe thousands of abandoned shafts tunnels and mine sites. The answer is not so easy for Spanish or non Spanish. Some mining sites was working in the Spanish era and later in 19th century Mexican American period. Some are just post Spanish Period? Others are earlier Spanish workings. However left over relics at these sites will help build a picture.

    For large mining companies I worked for these historical mining sites are only a guide to finding mineral rich areas. At the end of a day. A worked out old mine with resources spent is of not much value. In the end its geological exploration by geologists and ratty old drillers like myself as geologists and drillers have a friendly rivalry. Geologists say drillers drill "Truth holes " collecting core samples being able give an accurate profile of workable ore body.

    Its one of dangers putting a label on a ancient abandoned mine site even in CR. It comes down to any archaeological evidence found at the site.

    However I have more to show you in regards to this.

    Kanacki
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  6. #21

    Mar 2015
    679
    3604 times
    All Types Of Treasure Hunting
    Hello BillA

    In 1937 there was curious claim. The following newspaper story below reported a story below.

    Mystery And Tragedy Grip Scene of Great Gold Find

    PANAMA, July 23. An atmosphere of mystery and tragedy enveloping a reported find of $3,000,000 in gold bars in remote Chiriqui province was deepened today and President Jose Arosemena ordered a thorough investigation. National police operatives sent to Piedra Candeals, where the gold was reported found, sent word by courier through the jungle that they had reached the scene. They were met by Johannes Van Steck, a French citizen, one of three prospectors said to have found the gold. Van Steck, the police said, conducted them to the ancient mine tunnel in which the gold was supposed to be hidden. “I’ll go in first,” they quoted Van Steck as saying. They said Van Steck thrust his matchete, a sword-like, heavy knife, into the block mouth of the tunnel and then entered himself. There was the sound of a shot, the police said,

    and, following Van Steck into the tunel, they found him shot through the right side of the head and bleeding from the mouth. First reports were that Van Steck was dead. Later police rethough desperately wounded. For reasons unstated, the police seemed to believe that Van Steck shot himself. That accounetd for one of the three prospectors. Van Steck, in his first stories to police, asserted that Antonio Hill, German, another of the three, fled to the hills and tried to shoot him from ambush after telling natives that he was trying to cheat them. There has been no further word of Hill. The third prospector was Arring Thorpe, an American. He was found yesterday at La Concepcion, the nearest outpost of civilization to the mine tunnel—three days afoot through the jungle from the scene. Thorpe denied any connection with the treasure or any knowledge of it.

    Click image for larger version. 

Name:	Madera Tribune, Volume LXX, Number 70, 23 July 1937 — Mystery And Tragedy Grip Scene of Great Go.jpg 
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    Click image for larger version. 

Name:	Madera Tribune, Volume LXX, Number 70, 23 July 1937 — Mystery And Tragedy Grip Scene of Great Go.jpg 
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    Now speculate 3 such scenarios.

    1. Story was a hoax created by the reporter?

    2. Story was an actual event but the local authorities got greedy?

    3. Story was partly true but no gold was found?

    Interesting as you see the area of this discovery of alleged gold bars in a mine tunnel was in an area on the border with Panama and Costa Rica ?

    Click image for larger version. 

Name:	data=LGQrOL_MJ0uLhzUlwZQoGyd62rPuH6asJO_ljsoMJviuiX2qx-58y_ummHptURDRXbOH5xZXwrRMKHUrfZSQHfHoKX7.png 
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    Was this mine tunnel of this alleged discovery of 3 milllion in gold bars minas del Tisingal y la Estrella?

    Kanacki
    Last edited by KANACKI; May 20, 2019 at 05:49 PM.
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  7. #22
    cr
    May 2005
    Drake, Costa Rica
    708
    960 times
    Hi Kanacki

    You are correct, I realized after I posted that there was an 'issue' with my definition.

    Am reading your clippings, seems a lot of scams to fleece investors; name dropping tall tales w/o historical antecedents.

    Interesting is that there were/are numerous small rivers on the Osa Peninsula (mentioned by the Spanish) that did indeed have a bunch of gold, but at the time of the Spanish the indigenous population was too low to support the necessary slavery. The Diquis civilization gold remains were not looted (excuse me, recovered) until United Fruit brought in trenchers and dozers. 8" dredgers in the '80s with exploration permits got the easy gold on the Osa rivers. There are photos of 500 panners working the black sands on a beach here; none today - prohibited (and in front of a pricey tourist area, Matapalo I believe - surf break as well).

    Bill
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  8. #23

    Mar 2015
    679
    3604 times
    All Types Of Treasure Hunting
    Here is a newspaper speculating on the alleged discovery.

    Click image for larger version. 

Name:	Madera Tribune, Volume LXX, Number 69, 22 July 1937 — Treasure of Gold Bars May Be Lost Cache Ea.jpg 
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ID:	1714382

    Click image for larger version. 

Name:	Madera Tribune, Volume LXX, Number 69, 22 July 1937 — Treasure of Gold Bars May Be Lost Cache Ea.jpg 
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ID:	1714383

    As you can see there was much speculation about the alleged discovery?

    Kanacki
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  9. #24
    cr
    May 2005
    Drake, Costa Rica
    708
    960 times
    Quote Originally Posted by KANACKI View Post
    Hello BillA

    In 1937 there was curious claim. The following newspaper story below reported a story below.

    Mystery And Tragedy Grip Scene of Great Gold Find

    PANAMA, July 23. An atmosphere of mystery and tragedy enveloping a reported find of $3,000,000 in gold bars in remote Chiriqui province was deepened today and President Jose Arosemena ordered a thorough investigation. National police operatives sent to Piedra Candeals, where the gold was reported found, sent word by courier through the jungle that they had reached the scene. They were met by Johannes Van Steck, a French citizen, one of three prospectors said to have found the gold. Van Steck, the police said, conducted them to the ancient mine tunnel in which the gold was supposed to be hidden. “I’ll go in first,” they quoted Van Steck as saying. They said Van Steck thrust his matchete, a sword-like, heavy knife, into the block mouth of the tunnel and then entered himself. There was the sound of a shot, the police said,

    and, following Van Steck into the tunel, they found him shot through the right side of the head and bleeding from the mouth. First reports were that Van Steck was dead. Later police rethough desperately wounded. For reasons unstated, the police seemed to believe that Van Steck shot himself. That accounetd for one of the three prospectors. Van Steck, in his first stories to police, asserted that Antonio Hill, German, another of the three, fled to the hills and tried to shoot him from ambush after telling natives that he was trying to cheat them. There has been no further word of Hill. The third prospector was Arring Thorpe, an American. He was found yesterday at La Concepcion, the nearest outpost of civilization to the mine tunnel–three days afoot through the jungle from the scene. Thorpe denied any connection with the treasure or any knowledge of it.

    Click image for larger version. 

Name:	Madera Tribune, Volume LXX, Number 70, 23 July 1937 — Mystery And Tragedy Grip Scene of Great Go.jpg 
Views:	40 
Size:	75.3 KB 
ID:	1714371

    Click image for larger version. 

Name:	Madera Tribune, Volume LXX, Number 70, 23 July 1937 — Mystery And Tragedy Grip Scene of Great Go.jpg 
Views:	41 
Size:	77.5 KB 
ID:	1714372

    Now speculate 3 such scenarios.

    1. Story was a hoax created by the reporter?

    2. Story was an actual event but the local authorities got greedy?

    3. Story was partly true but no gold was found?

    Interesting as you see the area of this discovery of alleged gold bars in a mine tunnel was in an area on the border with Panama and Costa Rica ?

    Click image for larger version. 

Name:	data=LGQrOL_MJ0uLhzUlwZQoGyd62rPuH6asJO_ljsoMJviuiX2qx-58y_ummHptURDRXbOH5xZXwrRMKHUrfZSQHfHoKX7.png 
Views:	42 
Size:	21.9 KB 
ID:	1714379

    Was this mine tunnel of this alleged discovery of 3 milllion in gold bars minas del Tisingal y la Estrella?

    Kanacki
    Hi Kanacki,

    the reason for my inquiry

    Bill

    edit: and there was a story of Panamanian indigenas selling 2 dore bars post war, lost reference
    Last edited by BillA; May 20, 2019 at 06:20 PM.
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  10. #25

    Mar 2015
    679
    3604 times
    All Types Of Treasure Hunting
    Here is some more on the story. Claims the gold was sent to David and flown out of the country. Arring Thorpe was a manager of coffee plantation and here is a story Son and newlywed wife was sharing in the windfall.

    Click image for larger version. 

Name:	OAKLAND TRIBUNE JULY 22 1937 P1.JPG 
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    Click image for larger version. 

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    In answer to your question about natives as the article suggests maybe local natives later found more dore bars?

    Kanacki
    Last edited by KANACKI; May 20, 2019 at 06:41 PM.
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  11. #26
    cr
    May 2005
    Drake, Costa Rica
    708
    960 times
    or
    the gold was being transported to David, to be flown out
    seems all future tense

    Bill

  12. #27

    Mar 2015
    679
    3604 times
    All Types Of Treasure Hunting
    Here is reference to his sons marriage actually in 1933.

    Virgil E Thorpe
    Gender: Male
    Event Type: Marriage
    Marriage Date: 30 Oct 1933
    Marriage Place: Los Angeles, California, USA
    Spouse: Bessie H Swearingen

    The newspaper did not give vigils fathers proper name in Panama his name in American records. Oscar Verbal Thorpe 1883–1951

    BIRTH 12 MAY 1883 Texas
    DEATH 5 OCT 1951 Los Angeles. It appears they once owned property in long beach CA which is now a school in the center of the city of long beach.

    The Son Virgil Edwin Thorpe died in 1970. Virgil and Bessie only had one daughter Helen Fay Thrope and she died in 2004. However I managed to make contact with person with a family connection to the family. Might be interesting to see if confirm the story was hoax or real discovery?

    Kanacki
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  13. #28
    cr
    May 2005
    Drake, Costa Rica
    708
    960 times
    wow!
    can only observe
    would bet no gold in quantity

    Bill

  14. #29

    Mar 2015
    679
    3604 times
    All Types Of Treasure Hunting
    Quote Originally Posted by BillA View Post
    or
    the gold was being transported to David, to be flown out
    seems all future tense

    Bill
    Yes indeed. I have more to show you. What raises a red flag for me is. At this stage I can find no immigration records that any of them left the United states. After WW1 entry and exit is usually recorded. I have nothing as such at present. However Vigils father did by 1940 live in Long beach in California working as a chemist. However he is not recorded being there in the year 1935. So it is not quite clear where he was between 1935 and 1939? His income for 1940 was 2000 dollars. Another factor why would they bring gold to the United States any way?

    The United States Gold Reserve Act of January 30, 1934 required that all gold and gold certificates held by the Federal Reserve be surrendered and vested in the sole title of the United States Department of the Treasury. ... The act also changed the nominal price of gold from $20.67 per troy ounce to $35.

    Kanacki
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  15. #30
    cr
    May 2005
    Drake, Costa Rica
    708
    960 times
    all the characteristics of a tall tale
    wonder who/why the promotion ?

    Bill

 

 
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