When a treasure reality becomes a legend.
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  1. #1
    cr
    May 2005
    Drake, Costa Rica
    1,049
    1424 times

    When a treasure reality becomes a legend.

    mineral nodules on the abyssal plain
    they exist and have economically attractive concentrations
    there is a fair understanding of their worldwide distribution and presumed quantities
    Click image for larger version. 

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    the mining methods are understood via prototypes and testing, no commercial demonstration
    http://www.westcoastplacer.com/tag/p...allic-nodules/
    Click image for larger version. 

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    https://www.omlus.com/ocean-minerals-llc-technology/

    one long-term test of 27 years (no change at all, was bad and remained bad in terms of impact; life went to zero and stayed there)
    - cold, dark, no current
    https://www.researchgate.net/publica..._nodule_mining

    there is apparently a massive set of interrelated lawsuits attempting to block such mining

    and apparently a UN group awarding licenses (28?)
    (to whom? for how long? royalty pmt to whom? located where? on what basis? by whose authority? who may contest?)
    http://www.deepseaminingoutofourdept...-ocean-mining/

    has remediation been discussed and agreed as to the necessity or method?

    just kinda curious, know no more than DuckDuckGo can teach me
    some here are knowledgeable and might choose to comment

    it would seem that only state actors could take the various pressures applied
    Last edited by BillA; Sep 05, 2019 at 06:34 PM. Reason: some links
    Rebel - KGC likes this.

  2. #2

    Mar 2015
    731
    3765 times
    All Types Of Treasure Hunting
    Hello Bill

    I could tell you quite a bit about the perils of such projects. However my comments will inevitably stray into politics behind such projects. If the project can be proven to be successful it would break the Chinese strange hold on Rare earth minerals. Consumption of such minerals is sky rocketing by consumer demand for technology.

    Ironic we have kids super gluing themselves to roads to mines using smartphones to document their activism driving the demand for such minerals in the first place.

    Kanacki

  3. #3
    cr
    May 2005
    Drake, Costa Rica
    1,049
    1424 times
    Hi Kanacki,

    REEs are interesting but consist of 3 disparate elements; mining, processing ore, and component fabrication.
    Undersea nodule mining provides additional sources of ore, perhaps more concentrated.
    I'm not sure there is a shortage of ore so much as a desire for cheaper ore.
    (I read of a mine in Africa with ore at 4%? direct ship w/o benefication.)

    China's advantage with REEs is their processing capability, some of which after years of development is now proprietary.
    Cheaper feedstock is no cheaper to process, which capability will take some years to construct outside of China.

    And I understand China is now moving into the fabricated component business, improves the value added.
    Yet more reduction in raw REE commerce ahead.

    I believe all projects of this scope and location become a manifestation of political 'adroitness', perhaps less than economics or technical excellence. The world we live in.

  4. #4
    cr
    May 2005
    Drake, Costa Rica
    1,049
    1424 times
    https://www.mining.com/10-year-morat...ugh-activists/
    10-year-moratorium-on-deep-sea-mining-in-png-not-enough-activists

  5. #5

    Mar 2015
    731
    3765 times
    All Types Of Treasure Hunting
    Hello Bill

    What could be said officially and what is is two different beasts.............

    Anglo American pulled out because Chinese Companies owned by the communist party threatened to stop importing Iron ore from Anglo Americans iron ore mine in Brazil which China was its sole customer. AM was faced with losing a lucrative export deal worth hundreds of millions. Either lose that export deal and support Nautilus Minerals with an untried mining project. Or protect the their lucrative deal with China. AM chose to protect their bottom line. They pulled out with funding that was going to pay for the support ship which was actually constructed but the Chinese shipbuilding company who the owners is the Chinese communist party sold to another customer because Nautilus had lost a large amount of shareholder funds. When AM pulled out and could not make payments on time. Thus Nautilus had to restructure the company and make a deal with its creditors.

    China has offered PNG to cancel Nautilus permit and be allowed a navy base in return for buying out their 14 billion national debt. The three peak environmental groups that have been active in campaigning against the project, has been sponsored via environmental lobby groups in universities by Chinese Australia Council who in turn are sponsored by surprise surprise companies owned by you guessed it the Chinese Communist party.

    Ironic not once has these Environment group ever protested a Chinese mining project.

    So you see its a game with a loaded dice.

    Kanacki
    Last edited by KANACKI; Sep 06, 2019 at 12:52 AM.

  6. #6
    cr
    May 2005
    Drake, Costa Rica
    1,049
    1424 times
    Hi Kanacki,

    I would commiserate, but we both understand that all games are rigged. Individuals, and groups of individuals (corporations), will always be at a power disadvantage with governments, and for this imbalance we like to talk of rules; pap for the masses. Power rules, nothing new; same old world.

    And there does seem to be a problem with remediation? How can it be costed when undefined.
    Or is this whole undersea exercise no more than a snatch-and-run?

    Miners do not have a noble history. The only reason hydraulicking in Calif was stopped was due to the visible consequences. And when the consequences are at the bottom of the ocean, the miners are doubtless relieved at the lack of visibility.

    The Game is merely beginning, is the tragedy of the Commons to unfold anew, yet again ?

  7. #7

    Mar 2015
    731
    3765 times
    All Types Of Treasure Hunting
    Hello Bill

    There is much I could comment on the topic but as said it strays into the geopolitical game that is currently going on. Sadly many years ago I realized we are just pawns on a very big chess board. One of reasons why the trio has a very diversified port folio of investments and projects. A why I chose to live off the grid as much as possible.

    Mining from years of being in the industry is ruthless dirty business. But no more ruthless as the banking financial services sector. The nature of the beast that feeds us.

    Kanacki

  8. #8
    it
    Sep 2016
    Mexico
    1,712
    7724 times
    All Types Of Treasure Hunting
    Kanaci, the mining ind is cut throat, I understand why, but that doesn't excuse it. Incidentally, here is a picture of the Tayopa ( dead horse) mine area. It is a volcanic intrusion. The picture shows some of the rings, with weathering between the rings. The distant arroyo is one of the rings the center of the activiey is on that lone peak in the back ground What's wrong with the Geologists ?Click image for larger version. 

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    Last edited by Real of Tayopa; Sep 07, 2019 at 03:37 PM.
    BillA and Rebel - KGC like this.

  9. #9
    it
    Sep 2016
    Mexico
    1,712
    7724 times
    All Types Of Treasure Hunting
    Room, apologies for the interruption.

  10. #10
    cr
    May 2005
    Drake, Costa Rica
    1,049
    1424 times
    and why apologise?
    you are exactly on target with the thread title, known and not retrieved
    many reasons obviously, probably the country first and foremost

  11. #11

    Mar 2015
    731
    3765 times
    All Types Of Treasure Hunting
    Good point

    Its not just mining that faces that problem.

    Its not much incentive to recover treasure in a country your have no legal right to fair compensation in the recovery such a treasure. And face possible criminal prosecution either fine or jail or both endeavoring to do so.

    What many people fail to understand such projects can be very complex legally.

    Kanacki

  12. #12
    cr
    May 2005
    Drake, Costa Rica
    1,049
    1424 times
    Hi Kanacki,

    I would add that many are unprepared to deal with a foreign government. How does one gain the stature to have a voice?
    Who are you talking with? Who is his boss? How much paper, and for how long? (each step will cost, one way or another)
    And the real problem; for how long will the agreement be observed? What will it take to get the agreement from the next government?
    Any locals involved, they too need to be paid one way or another.

    As a child I read R. Sabatini/Black Swan, but the days of Clarke in Siri Lanka are quite past.

    well, the coyotes are in full voice so I'd best stop (actually congos here); full moon
    read 'em and weep guys, we're whizzing on our feet
    Americans never want to go back to the way America used to be

    https://www.zerohedge.com/political/...merica-used-be

  13. #13
    cr
    May 2005
    Drake, Costa Rica
    1,049
    1424 times

    png-demands-40-of-the-output-from-newcrest-harmony-wafi-golpu-project

    Hi Kanacki,

    yet another in a long list https://www.mining.com/png-demands-4...golpu-project/
    read 'em and weep guys, we're whizzing on our feet
    Americans never want to go back to the way America used to be

    https://www.zerohedge.com/political/...merica-used-be

  14. #14

    Mar 2015
    731
    3765 times
    All Types Of Treasure Hunting
    Hello Bill

    Same old story. The revenue get siphoned off by those in power and when they cannot balance the books cry patrimony.

    New Guniea is trapped in what we call the resources trap. In rich countries Resources creates wealth in poor countries. It does the opposite as economist refer to as resources as intensifiers in countries with poor rule of law. With endemic corruption a small group within the government plunders the royalties of such mining royalties then blame the mining companies of not paying their fair share.

    While indeed the conduct of some mining companies have not been perfect also. But poor conduct only flourishes when countries legal system is dysfunctional. And in such countries beset with those following problems end up in an endless cycle of poverty and inequality.



    Kanacki
    Last edited by KANACKI; Sep 15, 2019 at 04:50 AM.

  15. #15
    cr
    May 2005
    Drake, Costa Rica
    1,049
    1424 times
    Hi Kanacki,

    "But poor conduct only flourishes when countries legal system is dysfunctional. And in such countries beset with those following problems end up in an endless cycle of poverty and inequality."

    Geopolitical, steak tartar. As always my initial technique to examine a question is to reverse the
    premise, and/or the conditions.

    Without question there are bad actors; looking at any of the participants, New Guinea has our attention as do repeated tailing waste water dam failures.
    You posit that bad behaviour is a consequence of a non-functional legal system; I disagree and posit that all legal systems are formalized corruption.
    Steal with a pistol or a pen, the loss is the same. All legal systems are similar, one has as much justice as they can afford to buy.

    A northern neighbor acceded to a law passed in a different country to seize blah blah blah
    Legal does not equal Moral. Morality/ethics mean nothing to most people, and far far less to their respective governments.
    When a government wishes to do something not permitted, they just pass a law to make it ok. (sanctions anyone ? ? ?)

    Are "poverty and inequality" a cycle? I think 'chronic condition' would perhaps be a more apt description.
    Do laws decrease
    "poverty and inequality"? Sure has not worked that way in the land of the free.
    Laws are a social control system; the law has faint applicability to some, and crushes the lives of others.
    The essential difference -> money.

    Rebel - KGC likes this.
    read 'em and weep guys, we're whizzing on our feet
    Americans never want to go back to the way America used to be

    https://www.zerohedge.com/political/...merica-used-be

 

 
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