What is this and where is it from? And what's the worth?

[Yasin1]

I need to find out what this is and where it is from and how much it is worth. Looks ancient to me but I need to locate a time period in order to know.

 

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[Mackaydon]

The object in the middle pic shows a seven candle menorah.
Per Wiki: "The menorah (/məˈnɔːrə/; Hebrew: מְנוֹרָה [menoˈʁa]) is described in the Bible as the seven-lamp (six branches) ancient Hebrew lampstand made of pure gold and used in the portable sanctuary set up by Moses in the wilderness and later in the Temple in Jerusalem."
Don......

 

[Mackaydon]

My first thought on the same pic is a Jewish cremation ashes holder, but the object appears too large for that purpose. Is that a screw top?
Don....

 

[Mackaydon]

The language on the first pic appears to be Hebrew.
If I had this collection, I'd take it to my nearest Synagogue and ask them.
Don...

 

[CSpringfield]

I read Hebrew but am not making any sense of the text. The letters only have the two types of niqqudot (vowel marks) under them, which is not how any text would read in a sensible manner. It could potentially be a kabbalistic thing - they can get really wild. But I've never seen anything like it.

 

[Mackaydon]

Are there any marks (symbols, letters, words, numbers,etc.) on the base of the middle object?
Don.....

 

[Yasin1]

Thank you

 

[RW]

My first thought on the same pic is a Jewish cremation ashes holder, but the object appears too large for that purpose. Is that a screw top?
Don....

Are there any marks (symbols, letters, words, numbers,etc.) on the base of the middle object?
Don.....

Could be helpful to answer these questions Yasin1.

 

[KANACKI]

I need to find out what this is and where it is from and how much it is worth. Looks ancient to me but I need to locate a time period in order to know.

Hello Yasin1

What you have is a Jewish Torah. A Torah scroll, in Hebrew Sefer Torah. It is a handwritten copy of the Torah, meaning: of the Pentateuch, or the five books of Moses (the first books of the Hebrew Bible). It must meet extremely strict standards of production. The Torah scroll is mainly used in the ritual of Torah reading during Jewish prayers. At other times, it is stored in the holiest spot within a synagogue, the Torah ark, which is usually an ornate curtained-off cabinet or section of the synagogue built along the wall that most closely faces Jerusalem, the direction Jews face when praying. In this case a copper case as in the picture above. You can see blue greenish oxidation of copper on the cabinate.

There are only two types of kosher parchment allowed for a Torah scroll: gevil and klaf The three types of specially processed animal skin or parchment that can be used are: gevil (a full, un-split animal hide)

klaf and duchsustos, the latter two being one half of a split animal hide; arguably either the inner layer (adjacent to the flesh), or the outer layer (on which the hair grows).However, a Torah scroll written on duchsustos is not kosher. These are Hebrew words to describe different types of parchment, although the term duchsustos is Greek.

These are used for the production of a mezuzah (religious text affixed to the doorpost), megillah (one of five texts from biblical "Writings"), tefillin (phylacteries), and/or a Torah scroll (sefer Torah).A kosher Torah scroll should be written on gevil. If klaf is used in place of gevil, the Torah scroll is still kosher, The use of gevil and certain types of parchment has allowed some Torah scrolls of antiquity to survive intact for over 800 years. So it cannot be older than 800 years. Which would give a date from the 12th century on wards.

The calfskin or parchment on which the sacred Hebrew text is written is mounted into a wooden housing called "Tree of Life" Clearly from the way you holding the parchment you are not Jewish. Because they will normally hold by the ends of wooden housing. Tree of life. Touching the parchment is violating the purity of the document In the parchment you will see a highly symbolic image of seven branches representing the 7 tribes of Israel on a visual interpretation of the tree of life this confirms it is scroll of 1st part of the 5 books of Moses.

Looking at scroll is appears to be of Samaritan origin?

The Samaritans are adherents of Samaritanism, a religion closely related to Judaism. Samaritans believe that their worship, which is based on the Samaritan Pentateuch is the true religion of the ancient Israelites from before the Babylonian captivity, preserved by those who remained in the Land of Israel, as opposed to Judaism, which they see as a related but altered and amended religion, brought back by those returning from the Babylonian Captivity. The Samaritans believe that Mount Gerizim was the original Holy Place of Israel from the time that Joshua conquered Canaan. The major issue between Jews and Samaritans has always been the location of the Chosen Place to worship God: The Temple Mount of Moriah in Jerusalem according to Judaism or Mount Gerizim according to Samaritanism.

by the mid–Middle Ages, Benjamin of Tudela estimated only around 1,900 Samaritans remained in Palestine and Syria That aside a community still exists in Israel today. How given that a design style material used a more accurate date would of the artifact would be be between 1380 1480.

Now the problem you might have is establishing Provence of the artifact you Have. Two Torah and the cabinates that housed them was stolen in 1995 from Israel. The investigative trail went to London to which it was alleged to have have fallen into hands of one or two collectors. They have since passed away and their collections was dispersed.

So you may indeed have an ancient medieval artifact you have a problem of Provence. Without Provence all the major auction houses will not touch it.Thus the artifact will not command the high price it deserves. As they have come under political pressure from dealing with artifacts with no proven Provence. So without Provence its value is not as much as it should be.

I hope this has been of some help.

Kanacki

 

[BillA]

ah Kanacki

if indeed one of the two I suspect a hefty 'recovery fee' could be negotiated, could bite however

 

[KANACKI]

ah Kanacki

if indeed one of the two I suspect a hefty 'recovery fee' could be negotiated, could bite however

Hello Bill

It comes down to interpretation? A negotiated recovery is before the artifact is recovered. A artifact recovered then negotiated on is deemed ransomed.

Always pays to play your cards well.

Kanacki

 

[BillA]

Kanacki

I just figured out who could pull off the negotiation; the private Swiss Collector (from the '60s).
not many willing to be named as a fence (a felony), some atty perhaps

edit: swapped posts
yes

 

[KANACKI]

Hello Bill

If its the Swiss banker you Allude too I think I know him. He is nearly as rich as Rothchilds.

We got into a bidding war over documents and he had deeper pockets.

Kanacki

 

[BillA]

Hello Bill

If its the Swiss banker you Allude too I think I know him. He is nearly as rich as Rothchilds.

We got into a bidding war over documents and he had deeper pockets.

Kanacki

Hi Kanacki,

some idle curiosity, do you 'know' if the Private Collector ever found anything - or just collecting

 

[freeman]

I suspect if you look hard enough on that cheap and chintsy looking base metal container you'll find 'Souvenir of Israel' stamped on the bottom.

 

[BillA]

these are the copies Kanacki referred to above

https://www.npr.org/2018/04/29/602836507/who-stole-the-torahs

looking for a photo of the "slender copper case" . . . .

edit: " the copper Torah case, found discarded outside the synagogue, "
so one can conclude that the OP does not have a 1995 stolen torah

may be right freeman

 

[KANACKI]

Hi Kanacki,

some idle curiosity, do you 'know' if the Private Collector ever found anything - or just collecting

Hello BillA

These people as so rich they never do anything in person. Everything is done with intermediaries. The word "private" is an understatement.

Kanacki

 

[GoldieLocks]

Where exactly did you get this stuff?

 

[KANACKI]

Daniel Estrin is NPR's international correspondent in Jerusalem.

Kanacki

 

[freeman]

It's an authentic 'eBay relic'.

That the artist/fabricator tried to make it more esoteric looking by copying the Viking 'helm of awe' rune sort of gives it away.

At least they changed the lettering to hebrew......