Pancho Villa treasure

[Crow]

Gidday all

Interesting yarn but its hard to narrow down with so much vague information. It could have been possible that two Mexicans involved in the looting of Columbus. During Pancho Villa raid wounded separated from Villa retreating forces and hid in a cave and died or a third person killed the men and never returned a few captured Mexicans was captured after the raids and executed.

The cave must of been with in few miles of Columbus.

There are two hypothesis on the source of this alleged treasure.

1. An opportunistic looting from the Columbus raid

2. Money allegedly given by Villa to a merchant in the town to buy guns and ammunition. The merchant kept the money and in revenge attacked the town burning building and retrieve his money.

There are questions why Villa decided Columbus on American soil? There was no tactical advantage of bring the United States at war with him.

Crow

 

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[sdcfia]

Gidday all

Interesting yarn but its hard to narrow down with so much vague information. It could have been possible that two Mexicans involved in the looting of Columbus. During Pancho Villa raid wounded separated from Villa retreating forces and hid in a cave and died or a third person killed the men and never returned a few captured Mexicans was captured after the raids and executed.

The cave must of been with in few miles of Columbus.

There are two hypothesis on the source of this alleged treasure.

1. An opportunistic looting from the Columbus raid

2. Money allegedly given by Villa to a merchant in the town to buy guns and ammunition. The merchant kept the money and in revenge attacked the town burning building and retrieve his money.

There are questions why Villa decided Columbus on American soil? There was no tactical advantage of bring the United States at war with him.

Crow

Assuming the previously unreported discovery made by richpraytor's uncle's friend in the 1980s is true - ie, he was an undocumented alien who was hiding from the Border Patrol and saw an old chest and a couple skeletons in a cave near Columbus NM - there could be numerous explanations to the whole thing.

Maybe the friend's story is exactly as described it. He was just a lucky pilgrim who made a chance find, freaked out, left the scene and never returned. Possible, but doubtful, IMO. However, if so, how did he know it was Villa loot?

Maybe the friend, presumably a Mexican National, heard Villa stories all his life about hidden loot (these stories are legion), including one about a cave in the USA near Columbus. He told the uncle the story and claimed he had found the place in order to boost his own importance. He was never there, but said he was. Wouldn't be the first time something like this has happened!

Maybe the friend had good intel about the cave and actually did locate it. If so, he claimed he left the loot behind, but actually retrieved it but felt he couldn't admit to the fact because of possible legal repercussions.

What about the Villa connection? Yes, we know about the ammunition double-cross in Columbus that allegedly sparked Villa's 1916 raid and the sacking of the town. The loot may have been Villa's pre-payment to the double-crosser, who then stashed it in a safe place. Interesting possibility.

It seems highly unlikely Villa would have hidden his own loot on US soil because he needed money for the cause in Mexico and had the means of protecting it there. It's a possibility though, I suppose, but how would Villa benefit?

Other thoughts include the strong allegations that during the revolution some of Villa's political enemies moved gold from Mexico to safe havens north of the US border to keep it from being confiscated by the Villanistas. This of course is the explanation for the famous "Aztec stash" retrieved in southern Arizona a few decades ago - a stash moved, hidden and coded by a wealthy Mexican rancher who supported the gummint folks during the revolution and justifiably felt threatened.

Another thought - maybe the chest in the cave (if it existed) was put there by persons unknown, at an undisclosed point in history and had nothing at all to do with Villa. If so, the uncle's friend's story may still be true and the only question remaining is whether or not the chest is still in the cave.

 

[Ddiamond Digger]

Pancho was a crook dude.... Yeah they spend cash faster than a blink of an eye.... buying weapons women and "friends"...
Good luck in finding his "gold" lol.... He was a poor Mexican bandit if he had gold of any significance he surely would have disappeared... where there are lots of senoritas and slow horses easy to saddle..... So yeah someone got the gold... Pancho spend it across a bar counter somewhere... just as this old geezer would have.
Have fun out there
DD

 

[Riverbum]

Hello Crow,
I know that area well. There isn't a lot of rock with in the Columbus area but TONS of sand. Florida Mtns. off in the distance going north towards Deming are approx. 20 miles away. East towards El Paso there's more sand until you get to the Portillo's. To the west there's more sand, but you can run into some rock about 10 miles away that could hold a cave. If there is a cave around there it must be well hidden in what little rock outcropping that's there. But I am no expert and I'd never claim there isn't a cave around there. I've done a lot of Artifact research out there.

 

[sdcfia]

Hello Crow,
I know that area well. There isn't a lot of rock with in the Columbus area but TONS of sand. Florida Mtns. off in the distance going north towards Deming are approx. 20 miles away. East towards El Paso there's more sand until you get to the Portillo's. To the west there's more sand, but you can run into some rock about 10 miles away that could hold a cave. If there is a cave around there it must be well hidden in what little rock outcropping that's there. But I am no expert and I'd never claim there isn't a cave around there. I've done a lot of Artifact research out there.

What have you know about the cavern system that allegedly connects the Floridas to Tres Hermanas, about 12 miles to the SW?

 

[Riverbum]

sdcfia,
I know very little concerning the Florida Mtn. since I've never spent any time there, spent most of my time around Columbus east and west not north. Still a ways away from Columbus. I know only it was an Apache stronghold at one time and a place where Victorio could hide between the USA & Mexico when he was raiding that area. Some say he was killed there. I'd be really interested in any cave system that connected Florida Mtn. to Tres Hermanas though. Sounds intriguing.

 

[sdcfia]

sdcfia,
I know very little concerning the Florida Mtn. since I've never spent any time there, spent most of my time around Columbus east and west not north. Still a ways away from Columbus. I know only it was an Apache stronghold at one time and a place where Victorio could hide between the USA & Mexico when he was raiding that area. Some say he was killed there. I'd be really interested in any cave system that connected Florida Mtn. to Tres Hermanas though. Sounds intriguing.

I can't personally guarantee this story (that's why I was asking), but I can vouch for the source. DL was raised in the area, a third-generation ranching family member active in the Cookes Range-Cow Creek-Deming region. He passed a couple years ago, his legacy that of a no-nonsence, conservative, reliable, ramrod-straight, clear-eyed asset to his community. We've learned a lot of history from him over the years - family stuff passed down. He wasn't a big-mouthed attention seeker by any means, but would answer questions if asked (more about that below).

The story is that the Apaches had a secret getaway route when being chased by cavalry troops - one where they "disappeared" near Deming and later had safely made their way into Mexico. The secret was allegedly a tunnel or cavern that could be accessed somewhere near the Floridas and could be exited somewhere near the Tres Hermanas. DL certainly believed the story, which originated from his grandfather. DL heard the tale when he was very young and 75 years later apologized to us that he couldn't recall all the details (how large the tunnel was, what the Apaches used for light, etc). So, it's just a story at this point.

Re DL and the family ranch: My exploring buddy DP and I witnessed a "thunderbird" (giant bird with a 20-foot+ wingspan) in Sappo Canyon in the Cookes Range about 10-12 years ago. We were aware that they'd also been spotted before near the Rio Grande north of Las Cruces. I won't detail our sighting here as I've posted the whole story previously on TNet. We mentioned the event to DL, kind of expecting laughter, but DL only said, "Yeah, we've seen it too. Many times over the years, but we were never able to find where they nested." Lots of mysteries in that desert country.

 

[lilorphanannie]

There are a lot of geothermal wells in that area. Just south and west of the Columbus/Puerto Palomas border crossing on the Mexican side there is a large well defined cavern structure that is called Boca Grande. Boca Grande translates to large mouth, and the principle entrance to this systen is a very large opening on the north west side. It has been studied from a geological viewpoint, but I dont know if the cavern system has been mapped or explored otherwise. An intriguing story that exists for that immediate area is there is a natural stone door that although heavy can be opened just with normal pressure as it is balanced and pivots on some other rocks. The source of this information comes from a man who searches caves in this part of the sierra of Chihuahua looking for indian artifacts, primarily pottery which he sells on the black market. Anyway this is one of those stories that mention that the indian people would walk around a mountain and disappear from site, as well as those that were being chased would also suddenly disappear. It is said this swinging door was found by outsiders around 100 years ago ,as some cowboys saw two indigenous women walking with earthen jugs upon their head enter the door and disappear. When they came out they explained that this was where they obtained water. I also heard that sometime later someone entered the door and did some exploring. They reported that the cave was full of steam and like a sauna, they were searching for anything of value,and that a 44 pound silver bar was found,said they looked for more but found only the one. The bar was identified as coming from the San Pedro Corralitos mines that were higrade silver producers. Located just east of N. Casas Grandes. ....Additionally there is a lone hill near Janos, which was originally a presidio ,where there a small entrance to to enter this hill which is largely hollow inside. Local people say this is where the legend began about the Apaches disappearing from sight in broad daylight. Legend also has it that in this cave ,there is a small statue of a golden bull. Ask almost anyone thats over the age of 60 in that area around the place called Buenos Aires for more info. My information comes first hand while doing mineral exploration in the area some 35 years ago.