17.77 tons facts not smack

[Peerless67]

In September 1952 at Los Angeles district court, Bernard G Klepper produced escrow papers at the Grand Jury hearing which also contained an affidavit signed by Martin A Hougen which indicated he had seen the gold that was being offered to the treasury department. That escrow account was in the amount of $20,000,000.
$20,000,000 = 571,428.50 troy ounces at the American price of $35.00 an ounce, or 17.77 metric tons.

Escow accounts are basically a safe way of protecting seller and buyer in large transactions. In 1950, which is when the escrow account was set up there was no way of stealing money using an escrow account.
Bernard G Klepper was not only the escrow officer for the First National Bank in Ontario, California he was also the Vice President of the bank. His testimony adds great credence to the “17 tons story”.
Bernard Klepper died in Ontario, San Bernardino, California in January 1976.

(social security death index)

Bernard KLEPPER
Birth Date: 12 Feb 1901
Death Date: Jan 1976
Social Security Number: 552-28-8730
State or Territory Where Number Was Issued: California

Death Residence Localities
ZIP Code: 91762
Localities: Ontario, San Bernardino, California

It has been claimed in the published 17 tons stories that the aircraft used to move the gold from Mexico in 1933 were the stearman bi-plane or the cesna. The stearman did not have a 1 and a half ton weight capacity and had a service ceiling of less than 15,000ft and the cesna was not much better and its unlikely that either plane would have flown/glided over the burial site of the gold at 25,000ft.
(link) http://www.treasurehuntersuniversity.com/tons.html

It was also claimed that Martin A Hougen did not appear at the Grand Jury hearing and had taken employment abroad to avoid being served. This is false and Martin A Hougen did appear before the Grand Jury in 1952.
WhenMartin Hougen appeared before the Grand Jury he was living in Hawthorne, California, when he died in March 1968 he was still living at the same address he was living at when he attended the Grand Jury hearing in 1952. He was buried in Los Angeles and had died 4 months after his wife Ann.

The attorney from the story Prentiss Moore was a partner in the law firm Moore, Webster & Lindelof in Los Angeles.
George Luckey was not only a cattleman and oil man but also a Democratic Party leader, He had paid for President Trumans “Whistle stop campaign” in California prior to him being elected. Truman later offered him 2 positions which he turned down.
Neither Moore or Luckey were strangers to President Truman.
If you look at the Presidents day book (available free online) you will see that on Tuesday 4th of September 1951 both men met with the President in his hotel suite in the Fairmont Hotel in San Francisco at 2.45pm.
(click link) http://www.trumanlibrary.org/calenda...th=9&currDay=4
Prentiss Moore later became Judge Prentiss Moore in November 1962.
George Luckey turned down the positions of Secretary of Agriculture and Ambassadorship to Mexico. He died in January 1977 and is buried in Mt Zion Cemetery in Bertram.

It is interesting that none of the published tellings of the 17 tons story were written before the 1960s, which begs the question how did they know so much about what happened in the 1930s?.

To be contiued..........

Any Questions?





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[BILL96]

Peerless67,
Thankyou for your excellent research, it's obvious you have been putting a lot of effort into this subject. I live In the four corners area and have spent many hours studying those hills and wondering if it indead all that gold could still be there. Please keep up the good work I really am enjoying it.
Thanks,Bill

[kenb]

Excellent post Peerless67! thank you.

kenb

[BILL96]

peerless67,
You are certailyl raising a lot more questions. Have you or are you beginning to come to any conclusins of your own?
With the new points that you are bringing up it makes wonder just how some of these old stories just go statred.
Bill

[BILL96]

Pearless67
Why 17.77 tons and not 20?
Bill

[pegleglooker]

just marking story
PLL

[Salvor6]

Peerless, are you going to attempt to recover the gold?

[djui5]

Wow Gary, nice work!!

[WV Hillbilly]

I believe I know where the gold was/is buried, I do not know if it is still there but I know it was there in 1956.


Very interesting research alough this statement confuses me . More please .

[Siegfried Schlagrule]

Pearless67
Why 17.77 tons and not 20?
Bill

There is a difference between tons and metric tons. If memory serves a ton is 2000 pounds and a metric ton is 2200 pounds. Calculating 17.7 times 2200 we get 37,940 pounds versus 40,000 pounds using american or short tons. Mexico is a metric nation so their tons were most likely 2200 pounds. siegfried schlagrule

[Salvor6]

WOW Peerless! At $900/oz. that gold would be worth over $462 BILLION today!

[Oroblanco]

Great work Peerless, fascinating research! This is really a "tag" post so I can follow the posts easily, just wanted to add my 'kudos' for GOOD WORK!
Oroblanco

[Old Dog]

Well my old friend,
Now I see what has kept you so quiet these past months.

Well done I must say !

This is enough to give a fellow goose bumps.
That noise in the background is applause !

Fandamtastic job !

Thom

[Old Dog]

Gary,

Any scenario I can think of would have created a lot of suspicion publicly and privately.
All because of the earlier publicity and Government involvement.

I wouldn't so much involve the claim owners if I could help it.
Because if anyone could dispose of gold quickly it is someone with a legal claim.

I would stake a few myself and maybe do some research on the (then) owner of the property, keeping my motives concealed until I was absolutely sure of the owner's character....

Then slowly progress to a point where I could slowly remove, and refine the gold into another form consistant with bulk from my claims and then transport with the same. That would have been saleable at the time. But would have caused a great deal of suspicion due to earlier publicity.

Most of my thoughts are not posted here but this would be where all lines of thought tend to lead.

Excellent job on the research Buddy.
Very all encompassing and thourough.

Thom

[Springfield]

... The 17 tons story and the Victorio peak story being somehow blended into each other ?. Fanciful right ? ..... Anyway these two stories pertain to 2 groups of people who have no link right ?

Very astute hypothesis Peerless. The 17 Tons story as published is obviously fatally flawed, but if you consider it to be a well-placed cover story for other activities, it begins to make a little sense. Remember - watch what's up the magicians's sleeves, not what's in his hands.

[Old Dog]

Good idea,

Use the media exposure to one location to remove the pressure from the actual location and when their back is turned ....Voila !

Thom

[Springfield]

Good idea,

Use the media exposure to one location to remove the pressure from the actual location and when their back is turned ....Voila !

Thom

One of the oldest tricks in the book. Works almost every time because of the gullibility of humans.

[Old Dog]

Gary,

Maybe you've started another gold rush.

LOL
Thom

[gollum]

Peerless,

Exquisite research work.

Only problem I have is one name: Captain Orby Swanner.

You say the cache is/was never AT VP, but there are several witnesses who say otherwise, and that the US Military removed it entirely. A quick look at Google Earth will show you that little old VP has been heavily worked, and there are roads all around and over it.

Orby Swanner contacted the Noss Family and stated that he was with the Military Police at WSMTR, and was part of the team that emptied the caves of the gold. Supposedly, it was about 93 million troy ounces.

Noss also (with the help of family and friends) removed several loads of gold bars and hid them in a few locations.

There is also extant a photograph of one of the friends that was assisting in the removal. In the picture, he was wearing a Spanish Colonial Era Breast & Back Plate, with Helmet. Doesn't sound like Villa's Loot. The picture was seen by the writer from Freedom Magazine while he lived with the Noss' for nine months during the time he was researching and writing his story.

Don't get me wrong. I firmly believe in both stories (Victorio Peak & 17 Tons). I just don't believe they are connected. I think that whatever was at VP has been long gone (late 1960s). I think the 17 tons gold has yet to be found. If you reread the old thread about the 17 Tons Gold, you might see that I posted the name of the pilot given in the story is not the name of the man who flew in the gold. I do know that several of the "FACTS" surrounding the 17 Tons Story are fiction.

Best-Mike

[gollum]

My mistake about "where the loot wasn't".

The Orby Swanner story was given a lift up, when the Noss Family finally did get permission to go in the VP caves. In one section of the lower cave, they found Capt. Swanner's name burned into a wall (with soot). It at least shows he was there. Lends much credence to his story.

As far as armor being part of the loot, I doubt it. It IS possible, but Spanish Armor wouldn't have had much value at that time, and been bulky to carry. I believe that Villa wouldn't have been dragging around anything like that when he had so much REAL treasure he was "confiscating" from the Spanish Nobility. The only three reasons for taking the armor would (to me) be:

1. Value: Spanish Armor didn't really have a ton of value until the 1940s or 1950s.

2. Usefulness: With machine guns and rifles, Villa wouldn't have had any use for the armor. Apaches who didn't always use high powered weapons would have had a lot of use for the armor. There are several instances of Indians who wore pieces of Spanish Armor as both adornment and protection.

3. Concealment: This like the Yaquis when they killed the Spanish Renegade Soldiers at San Sebastian Marsh. They burned and buried the bodies and armor, because they thought they were real Spanish Soldiers, and there would be retribution against the Indians if the Spanish found the bodies.

Best-Mike