Yay! More reading material! Thanks! I am glad you are working on a book....I want to make sure and get in line for an autographed copy too! lol Thanks for indulging my many questions and for the interesting links you have provided as well. Sweet dreams to you and Beth both!
Atlantis
- Thread starter TheTreasure
- Start date
Oroblanco
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(BLUSH) Sheesh Cynangyl, you are such a nice person! Got to go, just had a change of heart viz the misunderstandings with another member and thought I would take off 'ignore' - and checked the new replies. Thank you once again for the kind words - I hope you have a great day tomorrow mi amigo Cynangyl!
your friend,
Roy ~ Oroblanco
your friend,
Roy ~ Oroblanco
Springfield
Silver Member
Oroblanco said:
Then of course you must be aware of the hypothesis that Solomon's 'miners' made the three-year round trip to Ophir in the American southwest via the Gulf of Mexico to the Rio Grande, following it to Victorio Peak (and other locations, westerly as far as the Panamint Range), all based on prior knowledge that has not been revealed to 'historians'. Furthermore, it's alleged that the VP storehouse contained Atlantean gold bullion which may or may not have been alchemically manufactured. Crazy talk? Certainly, based on the history we all accept on face value. True? We can't say, but it's a scenario that is at least plausible if one can remove himself from the dogmatic box we feel so secure in. From an historical perspective, the Atlantean connection offers a framework to explain a whole lotta diffusionist evidence found all over the Americas re architecture, art, legends, etc.
From a treasure hunter's point of view, the serious researchers in the (for lack of a better term) 'KGC' realm see a long, long association beginning with Solomon and continuing through the Knights Templar, the Masons, the Jesuits, the Mormons, and who-knows-who-else, who all seem to have mysterious connections with secret gold locations and, by implication, are possibly all arms of an even more shadowy group loosely referred to as the 'powers-that-be'. It's of course the ultimate conspiracy theory and one marvels at the intelligence, organization, and secrecy required to keep this sort of knowledge private. My opinion is that most of what we believe, whether historical, religious or political is disinformation designed to control the masses, so the entire topic remains on the table for me. Of course, I could be entirely wrong here.
When's your book going to be ready? I'd sure like to read it.
Highmountain
Hero Member
Springfield said:
I tend to believe human beings aren't smart enough, honest enough, persevering enough, sustainingly consistent enough to pull off even short-term conspiracies. Someone always gets greedy, talks, back-stabs to spoil the brew. I insist for my own mental health that I believe that and continue believing it at a deep gut-level.
However, having said that, I think there's an overwhelming body of evidence sufficient to give anyone who thinks along those lines [as you describe your thinking] legitimate reasons for believing it.
Jack
emtrescue
Full Member
Mind if I stand in line for an autographed copy of it also
? Heck, I'd even pay some money for it so you can get a royalty 
Don't think we've actually conversed on here, but I do enjoy your postings and knowledge of the ancients - and you did put me on one of my new favorite books about America, B.C.
Keep it up and good luck.
You are in one of the most wonderful places where you could write a book. I have passed through there multiple times between my former home in Eastern Montana and my family here in Northeastern Tennessee, and I have to say, I wasn't nearly impressed with Mt. Rushmore as I was the rest of the "Hills." Happy writings.
? Heck, I'd even pay some money for it so you can get a royalty Don't think we've actually conversed on here, but I do enjoy your postings and knowledge of the ancients - and you did put me on one of my new favorite books about America, B.C. Keep it up and good luck.
You are in one of the most wonderful places where you could write a book. I have passed through there multiple times between my former home in Eastern Montana and my family here in Northeastern Tennessee, and I have to say, I wasn't nearly impressed with Mt. Rushmore as I was the rest of the "Hills." Happy writings.
Springfield
Silver Member
Highmountain said:
Obvious strong and valid doubts, raised by many. Ultimately, the threat of death works well for the common minions - dead men tell no tales and strong backs are easy to come by. What's more interesting to me would be the motivation and allegiance necessary from the higher-ups who spent lifetimes carrying out these deeds. When the focus turns to the alleged treasure under their control and you begin to examine the myriad examples of patterns of clues, their interrelationships with each other and the organization, assets, cunning and brilliance required to create them, you'll soon be convinced that these guys were smart enough. As far as the top dogs ... quien sabe?
Real de Tayopa Tropical Tramp
Gold Member
OHIO Peeps: for some reason I haven't visited this thread hmmmmmm
Scuba diver, you posted --->
Serious treasure hunters use hard evidence and archival documents to find treasure. Crackpots use legends with no hard facts to search for their dreams.
~~~~~~~~~~~
Possibly, but do you know of any hard evidence on the Lost Mines of TAYOPA for example? Even the Jesuits who supposedly worked them / it, deny it's existence. There are no official records of it's existence, titles, filings, production, taxes paid, etc., etc., yet, despite this, I have successfully found and now own it.
I am one of those successful crackpots. hehehhe so was our discoverer of Troy, and a myriad of others.
Those with serious hard evidence are soon found
Don Jose de La Mancha
..
Scuba diver, you posted --->
Serious treasure hunters use hard evidence and archival documents to find treasure. Crackpots use legends with no hard facts to search for their dreams.
~~~~~~~~~~~
Possibly, but do you know of any hard evidence on the Lost Mines of TAYOPA for example? Even the Jesuits who supposedly worked them / it, deny it's existence. There are no official records of it's existence, titles, filings, production, taxes paid, etc., etc., yet, despite this, I have successfully found and now own it.
I am one of those successful crackpots. hehehhe so was our discoverer of Troy, and a myriad of others.
Those with serious hard evidence are soon found
Don Jose de La Mancha
..
Old Dog
Gold Member
Sometimes the man who chases the legend (or the rumor),
ends up being the one to write the hard evidence.
Thus dispelling the legend or confirming the rumor.
Thom
ends up being the one to write the hard evidence.
Thus dispelling the legend or confirming the rumor.
Thom
Oroblanco
Gold Member
- Jan 21, 2005
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HOLA amigos,
Thank you for the kind words and interest in my project, I will be delighted to notify you all as soon as possible. It seems we DO have many common interests.
Springfield I have heard that theory and (in part) tend to agree with it; on logic alone there is no other reason for the treasure fleet to require three years for each trip, unless the distance involved demanded it. The more skeptical explanation places Ophir in nearby Ethiopia or India etc yet these locations were accessible overland with no risk of pirates or storms, or if voyaging by sea would take only a few weeks at most. The ancient Greek text known as the "Periplus Erythraeum" describes the route to India from Africa both by following the coast line (as most historians insist all ancient ships traveled) which was much longer and more dangerous, or the direct route straight across the Indian ocean, taking advantage of the trade winds and monsoons for quick and easy passage. It is safe to presume that Solomon's fleet would have knowledge of these routes, so it would not require three years to sail to India or Ethiopia and return. (A relatively difficult book to locate, "Did the Phoenicians Discover America" by Thomas C. Johnston proposes this route to America without circumnavigating, which seems less likely as the extreme distance would likely require more than three years.) We can also take note of the fact that it took almost exactly three years for Magellan's ships to circle the Earth, as for Drake not long after, plus a minority of the Spanish academics testing the ideas of Columbus seem to have held the view that Solomon's ships were making that trip as well.
If we turn to the bible to try to find clues of where to look for Ophir and Tarshish (the other named place sought after by Solomon's ships) there is little to go on Ophir, but a few clues on Tarshish. Josephus the 1st century Jewish historian said it was simply Tarsus in Asia Minor, but it is possible that he was either deliberately misleading his readers (Romans in the process of conquering his homeland) or that the true knowledge of Tarshish had been lost by his time (at least 800 years after Solomon) - plus we know that in the time of Solomon, there was no city in the site of Tarsus. However we know from the books I Kings and II Chronicles that Solomon went to great efforts to build his fleet in Ezion-geber, which is near the northern apex of the gulf of Aqaba, which in turn connects to the Red Sea and Indian ocean. So the ships were able to sail to both Ophir and Tarshish by sailing EAST from Ezion-geber. Then in another book in the bible, (Jonah) we find that it is also possible to sail to Tarshish from Joppa, a port on the Mediterranean sea traveling WEST.
The best candidate for Tarshish (in my opinion) is Tartessus as it was known to the Greeks. Tartessus was an ancient Phoenician colony in SW Spain, not far from modern Cadiz; (I believe this has recently been re-discovered and claimed to be none other than Atlantis) we also know that a fair Jewish colony grew in the same part of Spain later, perhaps a result of others fleeing the homeland to go to Tarshish like Jonah tried to do. But if you look at a map, it makes little sense to sail from the Red Sea to head for Spain, when it would have been FAR shorter and faster to simply sail from Joppa across the Mediterranean, the only logical reason being that the voyage had to stop at other ports of call - Ophir! It does not require three years to sail around Africa either - we can even find a record of an Egyptian expedition (using Phoenicians to build, pilot and guide the little fleet) which took approximately 30 months to complete the voyage, - yet even this is deceptively long since the Phoenicians put in to shore each fall and sowed grain, then waited for the grain to ripen (perhaps six months) so the full voyage would have taken considerably less if we subtract their stops. The logical conclusion is that Solomon's fleet (which included Phoenician pilots and sailors, as king Hiram of Tyre was his friend and ally in the endeavor) must have been making the trip right around the world. It would then make sense - the ships would depart from Ezion-geber, but return to Joppa (where the only evidence specifically tied to Ophir has ever been found) and explains why the fleet had to be re-built in Ezion-geber several times; for it appears that when Solomon died the fleet might have been in Joppa.
Locating Ophir is quite a problem. I have heard several stories of lost cities and even a pyramid in Death Valley, but without something to substantiate the stories (perhaps finding ancient mines or even pottery shards or ancient coins) it is pure speculation on my part. It does make sense that ancient navigators and merchants would have made use of the rivers to penetrate inland (we know they did in other lands) and this is where 90% of ancient coins have been found in the US - along navigable rivers or near ocean ports and beaches. I have heard a number of different theories about the origins of the treasure stashed in Victorio Peak, and have seen a few photos of items but cannot identify the makers from the photos. The shape of the bars (rectangular) is different from known ancient examples from the time of Solomon which were conical in shape (the "golden wedge of Ophir") or discs, as well as the peculiar "oxhide" or "reel" shapes. I am NOT saying that this automatically proves the bars in VP could not have been ancient relics of Solomon or Atlantis, only that based only on the shapes seen in the photos they do not resemble known ancient types.
There were ancient visitors to the American Southwest from across the seas, the clues are all around us (such as the Los Lunas "Dekalogue" or the strange inscriptions found in Nevada, the mysterious stone walls in California etc) and I firmly believe that much more remains to be found. I will go way out on the limb here with a wild theory, please bear with me:
<begin wild speculation>
It can be shown that ancient Carthage (famous for the great general Hannibal) not only knew of the existence of the Americas but attempted to plant a colony here (which was later withdrawn by order of the Punic senate) and that they kept the place a (relative) secret, as Aristotle puts it, as a possible place of refuge in case some great calamity should ever befall the homeland. Carthage at the time she was destroyed by Rome, was the richest city on Earth and one of the most populous. The massive treasure of gold and silver in their national treasury seems to have vanished from the face of the planet. It is true that the Romans blocked the entry to the port of Carthage, so the people were not able to escape to their "secret land"; however during the terrible siege the resourceful citizens built a brand new fleet of warships from the rafters and floor joists of private homes, then opened a new entry to the sea by breaking through the walls of their interior port. This fleet then engaged the Romans and their allies for a while until finally defeated, but during this window of time, it is logical that the Carthaginians might well have shipped out their treasure - for several purposes; one to try to hire mercenaries to help fight the Romans, for another to get the treasure to their secret place where the Romans could never reach it. At any rate the Romans seem never to have found it, nor the Numidians who aided them.
Over a century later, after Carthage had been re-founded by Romans, a Carthaginian named Bassus went to the infamous emperor Nero and claimed to have had a dream; in his dream, the founder of Carthage queen Dido (or Elyssa) showed Bassus a massive treasure of gold ingots, coins and raw gold, stored in a cave. Bassus took this to mean that the huge treasure of Carthage must be hidden in a cave somewhere on his farm, which lay just outside the walls of Carthage. So Nero jumped at the chance to help recover the treasure, outfitting a special fleet of treasure ships, sending a mass of laborers and soldiers to help dig up and protect the treasure, with Bassus and Nero splitting the expected funds. Nero went on a massive spending binge, promising to replenish the national coffers out of the proceeds of his expected Punic treasure, nearly bankrupting the Empire. Unfortunately for Bassus and Nero, despite digging up virtually every square inch of his farm, not only was no treasure found but no cave either!
If the dream of Bassus was indeed a clue to the location of the treasure of Carthage, (really speculating here) then what clues he was given was that it is hidden in a cave. What better place to hide such a treasure, than in a secret land that the enemy does not even know exists?
<End wild speculation>
My apologies for yet another long-winded post, and thank you for your indulgence. Good luck and good hunting amigos, I hope you find the treasures that you seek.
your friend,
Roy ~ Oroblanco (Honorary member of the Tinfoil Hat Society 
)
Thank you for the kind words and interest in my project, I will be delighted to notify you all as soon as possible. It seems we DO have many common interests.
Springfield I have heard that theory and (in part) tend to agree with it; on logic alone there is no other reason for the treasure fleet to require three years for each trip, unless the distance involved demanded it. The more skeptical explanation places Ophir in nearby Ethiopia or India etc yet these locations were accessible overland with no risk of pirates or storms, or if voyaging by sea would take only a few weeks at most. The ancient Greek text known as the "Periplus Erythraeum" describes the route to India from Africa both by following the coast line (as most historians insist all ancient ships traveled) which was much longer and more dangerous, or the direct route straight across the Indian ocean, taking advantage of the trade winds and monsoons for quick and easy passage. It is safe to presume that Solomon's fleet would have knowledge of these routes, so it would not require three years to sail to India or Ethiopia and return. (A relatively difficult book to locate, "Did the Phoenicians Discover America" by Thomas C. Johnston proposes this route to America without circumnavigating, which seems less likely as the extreme distance would likely require more than three years.) We can also take note of the fact that it took almost exactly three years for Magellan's ships to circle the Earth, as for Drake not long after, plus a minority of the Spanish academics testing the ideas of Columbus seem to have held the view that Solomon's ships were making that trip as well.
If we turn to the bible to try to find clues of where to look for Ophir and Tarshish (the other named place sought after by Solomon's ships) there is little to go on Ophir, but a few clues on Tarshish. Josephus the 1st century Jewish historian said it was simply Tarsus in Asia Minor, but it is possible that he was either deliberately misleading his readers (Romans in the process of conquering his homeland) or that the true knowledge of Tarshish had been lost by his time (at least 800 years after Solomon) - plus we know that in the time of Solomon, there was no city in the site of Tarsus. However we know from the books I Kings and II Chronicles that Solomon went to great efforts to build his fleet in Ezion-geber, which is near the northern apex of the gulf of Aqaba, which in turn connects to the Red Sea and Indian ocean. So the ships were able to sail to both Ophir and Tarshish by sailing EAST from Ezion-geber. Then in another book in the bible, (Jonah) we find that it is also possible to sail to Tarshish from Joppa, a port on the Mediterranean sea traveling WEST.
The best candidate for Tarshish (in my opinion) is Tartessus as it was known to the Greeks. Tartessus was an ancient Phoenician colony in SW Spain, not far from modern Cadiz; (I believe this has recently been re-discovered and claimed to be none other than Atlantis) we also know that a fair Jewish colony grew in the same part of Spain later, perhaps a result of others fleeing the homeland to go to Tarshish like Jonah tried to do. But if you look at a map, it makes little sense to sail from the Red Sea to head for Spain, when it would have been FAR shorter and faster to simply sail from Joppa across the Mediterranean, the only logical reason being that the voyage had to stop at other ports of call - Ophir! It does not require three years to sail around Africa either - we can even find a record of an Egyptian expedition (using Phoenicians to build, pilot and guide the little fleet) which took approximately 30 months to complete the voyage, - yet even this is deceptively long since the Phoenicians put in to shore each fall and sowed grain, then waited for the grain to ripen (perhaps six months) so the full voyage would have taken considerably less if we subtract their stops. The logical conclusion is that Solomon's fleet (which included Phoenician pilots and sailors, as king Hiram of Tyre was his friend and ally in the endeavor) must have been making the trip right around the world. It would then make sense - the ships would depart from Ezion-geber, but return to Joppa (where the only evidence specifically tied to Ophir has ever been found) and explains why the fleet had to be re-built in Ezion-geber several times; for it appears that when Solomon died the fleet might have been in Joppa.
Locating Ophir is quite a problem. I have heard several stories of lost cities and even a pyramid in Death Valley, but without something to substantiate the stories (perhaps finding ancient mines or even pottery shards or ancient coins) it is pure speculation on my part. It does make sense that ancient navigators and merchants would have made use of the rivers to penetrate inland (we know they did in other lands) and this is where 90% of ancient coins have been found in the US - along navigable rivers or near ocean ports and beaches. I have heard a number of different theories about the origins of the treasure stashed in Victorio Peak, and have seen a few photos of items but cannot identify the makers from the photos. The shape of the bars (rectangular) is different from known ancient examples from the time of Solomon which were conical in shape (the "golden wedge of Ophir") or discs, as well as the peculiar "oxhide" or "reel" shapes. I am NOT saying that this automatically proves the bars in VP could not have been ancient relics of Solomon or Atlantis, only that based only on the shapes seen in the photos they do not resemble known ancient types.
There were ancient visitors to the American Southwest from across the seas, the clues are all around us (such as the Los Lunas "Dekalogue" or the strange inscriptions found in Nevada, the mysterious stone walls in California etc) and I firmly believe that much more remains to be found. I will go way out on the limb here with a wild theory, please bear with me:
<begin wild speculation>
It can be shown that ancient Carthage (famous for the great general Hannibal) not only knew of the existence of the Americas but attempted to plant a colony here (which was later withdrawn by order of the Punic senate) and that they kept the place a (relative) secret, as Aristotle puts it, as a possible place of refuge in case some great calamity should ever befall the homeland. Carthage at the time she was destroyed by Rome, was the richest city on Earth and one of the most populous. The massive treasure of gold and silver in their national treasury seems to have vanished from the face of the planet. It is true that the Romans blocked the entry to the port of Carthage, so the people were not able to escape to their "secret land"; however during the terrible siege the resourceful citizens built a brand new fleet of warships from the rafters and floor joists of private homes, then opened a new entry to the sea by breaking through the walls of their interior port. This fleet then engaged the Romans and their allies for a while until finally defeated, but during this window of time, it is logical that the Carthaginians might well have shipped out their treasure - for several purposes; one to try to hire mercenaries to help fight the Romans, for another to get the treasure to their secret place where the Romans could never reach it. At any rate the Romans seem never to have found it, nor the Numidians who aided them.
Over a century later, after Carthage had been re-founded by Romans, a Carthaginian named Bassus went to the infamous emperor Nero and claimed to have had a dream; in his dream, the founder of Carthage queen Dido (or Elyssa) showed Bassus a massive treasure of gold ingots, coins and raw gold, stored in a cave. Bassus took this to mean that the huge treasure of Carthage must be hidden in a cave somewhere on his farm, which lay just outside the walls of Carthage. So Nero jumped at the chance to help recover the treasure, outfitting a special fleet of treasure ships, sending a mass of laborers and soldiers to help dig up and protect the treasure, with Bassus and Nero splitting the expected funds. Nero went on a massive spending binge, promising to replenish the national coffers out of the proceeds of his expected Punic treasure, nearly bankrupting the Empire. Unfortunately for Bassus and Nero, despite digging up virtually every square inch of his farm, not only was no treasure found but no cave either!
If the dream of Bassus was indeed a clue to the location of the treasure of Carthage, (really speculating here) then what clues he was given was that it is hidden in a cave. What better place to hide such a treasure, than in a secret land that the enemy does not even know exists?
<End wild speculation>
My apologies for yet another long-winded post, and thank you for your indulgence. Good luck and good hunting amigos, I hope you find the treasures that you seek.
your friend,
Roy ~ Oroblanco (Honorary member of the Tinfoil Hat Society
)
Real de Tayopa Tropical Tramp
Gold Member
OHIIO THOM: Tally ho, you have it !
Don Jose de La Mancha
Don Jose de La Mancha
I do enjoy your long winded posts including the wild speculation part.....I do appreciate that you specify which part is wild speculation for those of us that are not familiar with the history too. lol I certainly can see the reasoning behind the speculation...it makes sense in many ways. Thanks again for sharing!
Real de Tayopa Tropical Tramp
Gold Member
OHIO Scuba Diver and the other sceptics heheeheh, Food for thought.
Good afternoon HI my friend: I will submit the following as the basis for Atlantis having existed and still existing below the Atlantic exactly where it is supposed to be..
First Plato's description--?
A) 'At the centre of the island, near the sea, was a plain, said to be the most beautiful and fertile of all plains, and near the middle of this plain about fifty stades inland a hill of no great size... There were two rings of land and three of sea, like cartwheels, with the island at their centre and equidistant from each other... in the centre was a shrine sacred to Poseidon and Cleito, surrounded by a golden wall through which entry was fobidden...
There was a temple to Poseidon himself, a stade in length, three hundred feet wide, and proportionate in height, though somewhat outlandish in appearance. The outside of it was covered all over in silver, except for the figures on the pediment which were covered with gold... Round the temple were statues of all the original ten kings and their wives, and many others dedicated by kings and private persons belonging to the city and its dominions
Here seperate accommodation was provided for royalty and commoners, and, again, for women, for horses, and for other beasts of burden... The outflow they led into the grove of Poseidon, which (because of the goodness of the soil) was full of trees of marvellous beauty and height, and ---- also channelled it to the outer ring-islands by aquaducts at the bridges
On each of these ring islands they had built many temples for different gods, and many gardens and areas for exercise, some for men and some for horses... Finally, there were dockyards full of triremes and their equipment, all in good shape...'
'Beyond the three outer harbours there was a wall, beginning at the sea and running right round in a circle, at a uniform distance of fifty stades from the largest ring and harbour and returning in on itself at the mouth of the canal to the sea. This wall was densely built up all round with houses and the canal and the large harbour were crowded with vast numbers of merchant ships from all quarters, from which rose a constant din of shouting and noise day and night.'
B) You do not know that there formerly dwelt in your land the fairest and noblest race of men which ever lived, and that you and your whole city [Athens] are descended from a seed or remnant of them which survived.
"The power came forth out of the Atlantic Ocean, for in those days the Atlantic was navigable; and there was an island situated in front of the straits which are by you called the Pillars of Hercules [Gibraltar]: the island was larger than Libya and Asia put together, and was the way to other islands...Now in this island of Atlantis there was a great and wonderful empire which had rule over the whole island, and several others, and over parts of the continent, and furthermore the men of Atlantis had subjected the parts of Libya within the columns of Hercules as far as Egypt and of Europe as far as Tyrrhenia [Italy]."
- Plato, Timaeus, 22c-23c; 24c-dThe myth of Atlantis was first described by Plato (427-347 BCE), citing his source as Solon (615-545 BCE), a politician and poet who did a lot of traveling. Solon apparently got his information from Egypt. The Egyptian priests informed Solon that around 9570 BCE, there was already a great civilization at Athens that the present Greeks have already forgotten. The society was ruled by warriors who loved the simple, communal lifestyle and had no interest in great wealth. They had been able to defend the city against the island continent of Atlantis, which lay west beyond the Pillars of Heracles (Straits of Gibraltar) and was ruled by a coalition of kings descended from the sea god, Poseidon, and whose chief king was Poseidon's son, Atlas.
The Atlanteans were at one point almost godlike in their purity of heart, but they became greedy and corrupt over time. They ruled an empire stretching as far as central Italy in Europe to the borders of Egypt in Africa, but grew even greedier and sought to conquer the Athenians, but were defeated. As the war ended, the gods decided to punish the Atlanteans for their pride, and over the course of a day and a night, violent earthquakes and floods swept the island and destroyed it.
The account Plato gives in Critias describes the Atlantean society. The island had virtually everything the Altanteans needed to remain self sufficient from fresh water, abundance in metal ores, luxuriant vegetation, and animals including elephants. As a result, the kings of Atlantis were quite wealthy. Each had its own royal city, but the greatest city was that ruled by the descendents of Atlas
C)
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
These references will do for a starter. SOOOOO------
1) We have a Large circular Island system aprox. the size of Spain, surrounded by a ring of volcanos / islands which is composed of a large plain and in it's center there is a large mountain.
2) This island, by coincidence, lies almost exactly on the jucntion of the North American, South American, African and Euroasian plates, a region where violent earth movements can and do take place, also intense themal activity..
3) Examining the ocean floor we find just such a configuration existing, precisely where it should be - hmm
see accompanying photo #1
You will notice a large underwater land mass consisting of a circular plain surrounded by a circular groups of mts / islands with 3 entrances by water, exactly as stated and required to fit the description..
The surrounding Islands were volcanic in nature and possibly modulated the climate due to the proximity of the 4 main plates and their faults.
Frankly, because of the above, simple logic would confirm that this IS Atlantis.
More later converts.©@
Don Jose de La Mancha
Good afternoon HI my friend: I will submit the following as the basis for Atlantis having existed and still existing below the Atlantic exactly where it is supposed to be..
First Plato's description--?
A) 'At the centre of the island, near the sea, was a plain, said to be the most beautiful and fertile of all plains, and near the middle of this plain about fifty stades inland a hill of no great size... There were two rings of land and three of sea, like cartwheels, with the island at their centre and equidistant from each other... in the centre was a shrine sacred to Poseidon and Cleito, surrounded by a golden wall through which entry was fobidden...
There was a temple to Poseidon himself, a stade in length, three hundred feet wide, and proportionate in height, though somewhat outlandish in appearance. The outside of it was covered all over in silver, except for the figures on the pediment which were covered with gold... Round the temple were statues of all the original ten kings and their wives, and many others dedicated by kings and private persons belonging to the city and its dominions
Here seperate accommodation was provided for royalty and commoners, and, again, for women, for horses, and for other beasts of burden... The outflow they led into the grove of Poseidon, which (because of the goodness of the soil) was full of trees of marvellous beauty and height, and ---- also channelled it to the outer ring-islands by aquaducts at the bridges
On each of these ring islands they had built many temples for different gods, and many gardens and areas for exercise, some for men and some for horses... Finally, there were dockyards full of triremes and their equipment, all in good shape...'
'Beyond the three outer harbours there was a wall, beginning at the sea and running right round in a circle, at a uniform distance of fifty stades from the largest ring and harbour and returning in on itself at the mouth of the canal to the sea. This wall was densely built up all round with houses and the canal and the large harbour were crowded with vast numbers of merchant ships from all quarters, from which rose a constant din of shouting and noise day and night.'
B) You do not know that there formerly dwelt in your land the fairest and noblest race of men which ever lived, and that you and your whole city [Athens] are descended from a seed or remnant of them which survived.
"The power came forth out of the Atlantic Ocean, for in those days the Atlantic was navigable; and there was an island situated in front of the straits which are by you called the Pillars of Hercules [Gibraltar]: the island was larger than Libya and Asia put together, and was the way to other islands...Now in this island of Atlantis there was a great and wonderful empire which had rule over the whole island, and several others, and over parts of the continent, and furthermore the men of Atlantis had subjected the parts of Libya within the columns of Hercules as far as Egypt and of Europe as far as Tyrrhenia [Italy]."
- Plato, Timaeus, 22c-23c; 24c-dThe myth of Atlantis was first described by Plato (427-347 BCE), citing his source as Solon (615-545 BCE), a politician and poet who did a lot of traveling. Solon apparently got his information from Egypt. The Egyptian priests informed Solon that around 9570 BCE, there was already a great civilization at Athens that the present Greeks have already forgotten. The society was ruled by warriors who loved the simple, communal lifestyle and had no interest in great wealth. They had been able to defend the city against the island continent of Atlantis, which lay west beyond the Pillars of Heracles (Straits of Gibraltar) and was ruled by a coalition of kings descended from the sea god, Poseidon, and whose chief king was Poseidon's son, Atlas.
The Atlanteans were at one point almost godlike in their purity of heart, but they became greedy and corrupt over time. They ruled an empire stretching as far as central Italy in Europe to the borders of Egypt in Africa, but grew even greedier and sought to conquer the Athenians, but were defeated. As the war ended, the gods decided to punish the Atlanteans for their pride, and over the course of a day and a night, violent earthquakes and floods swept the island and destroyed it.
The account Plato gives in Critias describes the Atlantean society. The island had virtually everything the Altanteans needed to remain self sufficient from fresh water, abundance in metal ores, luxuriant vegetation, and animals including elephants. As a result, the kings of Atlantis were quite wealthy. Each had its own royal city, but the greatest city was that ruled by the descendents of Atlas
C)
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These references will do for a starter. SOOOOO------
1) We have a Large circular Island system aprox. the size of Spain, surrounded by a ring of volcanos / islands which is composed of a large plain and in it's center there is a large mountain.
2) This island, by coincidence, lies almost exactly on the jucntion of the North American, South American, African and Euroasian plates, a region where violent earth movements can and do take place, also intense themal activity..
3) Examining the ocean floor we find just such a configuration existing, precisely where it should be - hmm
see accompanying photo #1
You will notice a large underwater land mass consisting of a circular plain surrounded by a circular groups of mts / islands with 3 entrances by water, exactly as stated and required to fit the description..
The surrounding Islands were volcanic in nature and possibly modulated the climate due to the proximity of the 4 main plates and their faults.
Frankly, because of the above, simple logic would confirm that this IS Atlantis.
More later converts.©@
Don Jose de La Mancha
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Oroblanco
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HOLA mi amigo Don Real de Tayopa and everyone,
Thank you for posting that map - for it depicts the sea floor fairly well, and with the shallower depths being shown as a light blue color. It is a simple step to then imagine that lightest blue color as a new border delineating the continents and islands, which is what it would be if we were to lower the sea levels to approximate what they were in the last Ice Age - the land masses of Europe, Africa and the Americas are noticeably less distant from each other. This would tend to corroborate the claim of Plato that the "Atlantic was navigable in those days" and the part about the islands of Atlantis being like stepping stones across to the "true continent" on the opposite side of the ocean.
I am doing some 'logic-leaping' here but if the land masses were in fact closer to each other, or rather the distance across the seas was not as great, and those islands of Atlantis were used as 'stepping stones' to reach the other side, this would tend to corroborate the statements of Diodorus Siculus about the Atlanteans (using his spelling rather than the modern) having also conquered adjoining parts of those continents. The finding of orichalcum in Bolivia would tend to support the idea that these "mythical" Atlanteans had not simply stayed along the coasts but had penetrated well inland, as is logical for a people seeking minerals and other resources to exploit.
The site you have encircled there amigo is an interesting region, but if memory serves the depth there is quite considerable, more than could be accounted for by simple rising sea levels; this would mean that some kind of massive subsidence had taken place (like for instance "earthquakes and floods" viz Plato) and of course we have many historians and geologists who would discount that idea instantly. A closer examination of that idea (a mass subsidence) would reveal that similar events have in fact occurred, in one example the former land bridge from the island of Java that sank during a volcanic eruption, or the parts of Cleopatra's city of Alexandria in Egypt that are today beneath the sea - a result of an earthquake, and of course Helike in Greece, the victim of another earthquake. (We might also refer to the ancient Arabian legendary "Atlantis of the Desert" - the city of Ubar, "swallowed by the desert" for its wickedness, so recently re-discovered and it too literally subsided due to <the theory goes> the excessive depletion of its' aquifer.) So what about this "problem" - is that region also a site of earthquakes and crust instability? Thank you in advance,
your friend,
Roy ~ Oroblanco
Thank you for posting that map - for it depicts the sea floor fairly well, and with the shallower depths being shown as a light blue color. It is a simple step to then imagine that lightest blue color as a new border delineating the continents and islands, which is what it would be if we were to lower the sea levels to approximate what they were in the last Ice Age - the land masses of Europe, Africa and the Americas are noticeably less distant from each other. This would tend to corroborate the claim of Plato that the "Atlantic was navigable in those days" and the part about the islands of Atlantis being like stepping stones across to the "true continent" on the opposite side of the ocean.
I am doing some 'logic-leaping' here but if the land masses were in fact closer to each other, or rather the distance across the seas was not as great, and those islands of Atlantis were used as 'stepping stones' to reach the other side, this would tend to corroborate the statements of Diodorus Siculus about the Atlanteans (using his spelling rather than the modern) having also conquered adjoining parts of those continents. The finding of orichalcum in Bolivia would tend to support the idea that these "mythical" Atlanteans had not simply stayed along the coasts but had penetrated well inland, as is logical for a people seeking minerals and other resources to exploit.
The site you have encircled there amigo is an interesting region, but if memory serves the depth there is quite considerable, more than could be accounted for by simple rising sea levels; this would mean that some kind of massive subsidence had taken place (like for instance "earthquakes and floods" viz Plato) and of course we have many historians and geologists who would discount that idea instantly. A closer examination of that idea (a mass subsidence) would reveal that similar events have in fact occurred, in one example the former land bridge from the island of Java that sank during a volcanic eruption, or the parts of Cleopatra's city of Alexandria in Egypt that are today beneath the sea - a result of an earthquake, and of course Helike in Greece, the victim of another earthquake. (We might also refer to the ancient Arabian legendary "Atlantis of the Desert" - the city of Ubar, "swallowed by the desert" for its wickedness, so recently re-discovered and it too literally subsided due to <the theory goes> the excessive depletion of its' aquifer.) So what about this "problem" - is that region also a site of earthquakes and crust instability? Thank you in advance,
your friend,
Roy ~ Oroblanco
Springfield
Silver Member
Oroblanco said:
Extravagent, but a darn good idea. Out of sight, out of mind.
Real de Tayopa Tropical Tramp
Gold Member
Springfield
Silver Member
Real de Tayopa said:
Sorry - can't swim.
Real de Tayopa Tropical Tramp
Gold Member
hehehhe Springfield I will teach you.
Don Jose de La Mancha
Don Jose de La Mancha
emtrescue
Full Member
Springfield said:
To dive you theoretically don't have to be able to swim.......
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