Atlantis

[RWLJ]

2-15-14​

Hello Kanabite,
For the record, I do not believe in throwing out the baby with the bath water. Those that stay on that path develop a criminal mind set and a double personality. I do not believe in any religion, government entities or any church. Not one church has had enough inspiration from their god to understand their own history correct or most of the true places that their history talks about. They have a Bible, a Koran, a Book of Mormon or many other books or records that they know little about. Most of their books or records have been influenced by the governments that have made up the body of Babylonian and they have accepted new places as if they were the old places. This is a pretty dumb thing to do.

Many in times past where enslaved and did not know any better then what their masters gave them to keep them controlled or sedated. History has to some disagree been controlled by the conquers and the masters. But all those that do not want to believe true history when it does come forth are probable just as well off looking in new places, then wake up and do their own thinking. Those that are too lazy to look at all things and hold fast to that which is good are the types that want a free lunch. Creating their new master or god that will help them justify the easy path they like.

As far as me giving pictures and more clues to specific sights that some would like to plunder that has not happened for twenty some odd years and I do not believe it will happen again, any time soon, if I can help it. I would ask all those that I have showed some of these places to in confidence that they like wise do not give out any pictures or clues to the temple and places that I have concealed. You have my blessing or support if you want to invite some of the people that read this post, to a place where there are a lot of pictures and maps where we had the last seminar. I think this would be a good idea if people truly want to learn more real history about the land of Ophir, the real land of Genesis, the place of the Greek Gods and places the Egyptian and Greek gods are talked about in ancient writings on ancient walls.

It would only be a foolish boy that would not consider Aztec history because of its latter corruption or not consider a Constitution that made this country great because of its corruption today. I have history of the Israelites that is about twice as old as the Dead Sea Scrolls. Just because scholars cannot find biblical history of Joshua’s time and back in the Middle East does not mean it does not exist. I and other know better. We have a lot more ancient Israelite history in America. People can only dream about finding it in the Middle East. It is not my fault if people are too dumb to learn how to read the mother of Paleo Hebrew writing.

Let me give you a couple of examples. Esau was known as a hunter. Jacob was known as a visionary man. When Jacob was born he came out second holding on to Esau’s foot. They called him heal grabber which is what Jacob means. So if you see a carved in foot on a rock wall, with a little man with a bow and arrow inside the foot could it be possible that that foot represents the foot of a hunter or portray that meaning? What happens if you have a hand with an eye in it? Could it be possible that it represents the hand of a visionary man? Know what happens if you see the fingers of that hand rapping around the heel of the foot with the hunter in it? Now what are the odds that someone would carve this on a rock ledge if they were not talking about Jacob the heal grabber?

Know if that is not good enough let us go a step farther. Israel was the new name Jacob was given when he wrestled with a messenger of light and his hip was disjointed. So let us look at the name, Israel. If I understand right Ish means issue or offspring. Ra means the sun, the great light of God. El means the law of God. That which represented the El could be a straight horn of power or an L shaped horn representing the power of law. Horns in general represent power by law.

So if you see a little figure carved in the cliff his hand holding on to a heal of a foot with horns, one L shaped, with the sun incorporated in the body, with issue coming out of the sun representing the tribes of Israel, with his hip out of place, with two paths where he divided his family at the time he was told that he would be called Israel. Only a fool or a person of the hardest type would fail to recognize the different stories that are carved in rock not to be talking about Jacob, Israel.

One of the stories of this type are on a ledge above a place we have seminars. In the false Sinai in the Middle East you cannot find the stories of Israel’s travels in the wilderness. In this part of the world they are everywhere. Even the place where Moses struck the cliff and water came out. I copied what Moses did and I have a spring with over a hundred gallons a minute coming out of the rock, except I used some higher technology. I took a little seep from under the rock that was not producing a cup a minute and when I got done it was steady flowing a hundred and twenty five gallons a minute. It has been a blessing to us for about twenty five years. I have eaten many vegetables and fruits from the water that spring produced. It made the land there worth much more.

Does anybody want to get together and have a seminar and see some interesting sights that are self-evident? There are places they can put a ten or park a camper or they can spent the night in Kanab, Utah or Hurricane, Utah. Badknee’s wife has been a good hostess in the past in preparing good meals. Zionstroy could be a good coordinator of the seminars and tours. People could contribute what they think would be fair to cover meals and etc. I could donate my time in translating ancient writings that are self-evident.

R. W.

 

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[Oroblanco]

RWLJ wrote

So if you see a carved in foot on a rock wall, with a little man with a bow and arrow inside the foot could it be possible that that foot represents the foot of a hunter or portray that meaning?

That would be a representation of Achilles, hence the arrow and heel. It would be pretty unusual to find such a representation in the Americas, but not impossible.


RWLJ also wrote

What happens if you have a hand with an eye in it? Could it be possible that it represents the hand of a visionary man?

The symbol of a hand with an eye in it, is considered the hand of God, or Hamsa a Judeo-Christian symbol also used by other religions and cultures. Like this one,

That symbol is fairly popular even today, used in jewelry in fact and there are many variations. More at Wiki
Hamsa - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia



I can see that we are not going to get anywhere RWLJ, so I won't try to argue with you further as you have dismissed pretty much the whole of written history in favor of your own impression. Good luck to you, and to everyone reading this, I hope you find the treasures that you seek.
Oroblanco

 

[markmar]

RWLJ

You wrote : "Esau was known as a hunter. Jacob was known as a visionary man. When Jacob was born he came out second holding on to Esau’s foot. They called him heal grabber which is what Jacob means " .

And before : " They have a Bible, a Koran, a Book of Mormon or many other books or records that they know little about "

and

" Many in times past where enslaved and did not know any better then what their masters gave them to keep them controlled or sedated. History has to some disagree been controlled by the conquers and the masters " .

I am wondering , where you have found your real and accurate statements ;

 

[cactusjumper]

Here's a coincidence that is just a little hard to believe, considering the alleged time between the two tales.

"In the sacred precincts of Poseidon, after praying to the God that they might capture a victim well-pleasing unto him, they chased after the bulls with staves and nooses, but with no weapons of iron; and whatever bull they captured they led up to the pillar and cut its throat over the top of the pillar, raining down blood on the inscription". Critias

That is, of course, a description of the Minoan tradition that has been well documented with physical evidence.

Hard to explain!

Good luck,

Joe

 

[RWLJ]

2-16-14​

Hello Oroblanco,

The stories of the Greeks and their gods are identified here by others. Of all the stories of Jacob in northern Arizona and in southern Utah none of them have an arrow pointing at the heal or in the heal. It is always a hand touching or wrapping itself around the heal or a hand inlaid in the foot. Some of these stories cover the whole Exodus story. There is no way you can mix them with Achilles’s heal. Even thou the Trojan War took place in Lake Bonneville at the Island of Atlantis. Even thou you show a hand that may well represent the hand of God. Three fingers represent the trinity. It more than likely represents where God had a hand in creating the three cherubim of Troy. The bell shape represents the third cherubim on the south end. The Egyptians called it Horus. There is a big eye in the top of that cherub to this day. Just below and west of that cherub you enter the temple of Isis. The place of all seeing or learning that the Hebrews referred to as the house of the eternal, the All Seeing God. One of the Dead Sea Scrolls referred to it as Troy Poseidon, the central city of Urusalim.

I cannot stop you from being down on what you are not up on. Just because forty million or more people believe in a dumb idea (in secondary name places, so they cannot make sense out of history) does not mean it is not a dumb idea. This is due to the problem that the blind have been following the blind for too long. Condemnation without investigation is ignorance on the war path.

I invite you and others to come and take a look. I am not at my ranch where I have my library but in time I will post these stories of Jacob and others, at least the ones that are not sensitive to the locations that I do not want plundered.

I realize you may have good intentions and you may just want to pull out more information from me. Which is fine ether way. We do not all see things from the same paradigm. Lively discussions are healthy.

There are enough things north of the Grand Canyon that will in time bring the seekers of truth down to a foundation of reality. One of them things is an ancient library in the area of the Tree of Life that the Molino document and maps talk about. That they are looking for in the Grand Canyon but that is a red herring.

I do believe we need to be more serious and legitimate in what we throw out on the table. There are too many important things that we need to be doing, where our time could be better spent. If you ever come by Kanab or Hurricane, give me a post and I will take you on a tour. And that goes to cactusjumber and several others. It could be better than the first time I met you two. You both impressed me at that time, to be down on what you were not up on. But that’s ok I am guilty of worst things, especially when we hear all the malarkey from around the world about where Atlantis, Troy and other places are supposed to be. You have good reason to be prejudice and not want to believe. I have been a Doubting Thomas most of my life and have looked at the strongest reasoning pro and con of hot topics. I do not care who is right I am only concerned with what is right.

I have studied in a number of different countries. And yet did not consider a place that had once been my backyard. It hit me between the eyes with real facts of history. It literally ripped away all the dream castles that I had built around a certain religion. For a while I wondered if I had anything to live for. I have been guided since I was young to where the greater facts of reality took me. If we fight on the wrong side (that which is against reality) we will sooner or later lose. I say this as a friend to the seekers of truth.

I could not digest and keep in my stomach what is taught in history and religion. There were way too many contradictions and gaps. I did not have enough blind faith to leap off the Grand Canyon of copycat named places. I have to have a foundation in reality. Most people sell out to where there is a lot of agreement, even though it can be dumber then dumb and hold no more water than a sieve.

I guarantee you I could put you on a trail to the true history and it’s most sacred places. I have already given you keys to Atlantis, for those who are willing to start on a new quest.

I knew many years ago when I had to give up certain things that I had cherished that I was likely to lose the wife I loved and all my friends. But I believed truth was more important than the messenger or the group. We have failed to truly help out the group when we sell out to appetite or give way to the old traditions of history. This came about by assumptions building on assumptions until it was an endless river of assumptions. Those that are aboard that ship on that river will become lost in the sea of ignorance.

Thank you if you have listened well.

R. W.

 

[Oroblanco]

Cactusjumper wrote

Here's a coincidence that is just a little hard to believe, considering the alleged time between the two tales.


"In the sacred precincts of Poseidon, after praying to the God that they might capture a victim well-pleasing unto him, they chased after the bulls with staves and nooses, but with no weapons of iron; and whatever bull they captured they led up to the pillar and cut its throat over the top of the pillar, raining down blood on the inscription". Critias


That is, of course, a description of the Minoan tradition that has been well documented with physical evidence.


Hard to explain!


Good luck,

What is so hard to explain about that? Seems like we have been over this, but here is what Plutarch wrote (translated into English)

Plato, willing to improve the story of the Atlantic Island, as if it were a fair estate that wanted an heir and came with some title to him, formed, indeed, stately entrances, noble enclosures, large courts, such as never yet introduced any story, fable, or poetic fiction; but, beginning it late, ended his life before his work; and the reader's regret for the unfinished part is the greater, as the satisfaction he takes in that which is complete is extraordinary.

Plato embellished the story of Atlantis. You have pointed out one of the embellishments, obviously "borrowed" from the Minoans, whom the Greeks certainly knew about since they had been trading with them, and eventually invaded and conquered them. Your extract comes from Critias, which has several such anachronisms, there is no such statement in Timaeus. Neither does any other ancient source mention it. Stick with Timaeus, or it is a minefield of embellishments in Critias.


RWLJ wrote

Hello Oroblanco,

I cannot stop you from being down on what you are not up on.
I invite you and others to come and take a look.

Thank you for the invite, but I am not free to travel at the time being. I can assure you that I have studied ancient history in depth, including the Americas. More on this in a moment.

RWLJ also wrote

I do believe we need to be more serious and legitimate in what we throw out on the table. There are too many important things that we need to be doing, where our time could be better spent. If you ever come by Kanab or Hurricane, give me a post and I will take you on a tour. And that goes to cactusjumber and several others. It could be better than the first time I met you two. You both impressed me at that time, to be down on what you were not up on. But that’s ok I am guilty of worst things, especially when we hear all the malarkey from around the world about where Atlantis, Troy and other places are supposed to be. You have good reason to be prejudice and not want to believe. I have been a Doubting Thomas most of my life and have looked at the strongest reasoning pro and con of hot topics. I do not care who is right I am only concerned with what is right.

I do travel to and through Utah sometimes, thank you for the invitation but for the time being I can't travel from home in South Dakota.

RWLJ also wrote

I could not digest and keep in my stomach what is taught in history and religion. There were way too many contradictions and gaps.

While I agree that there are portions of written history which have gaps, and some erroneous beliefs such as the Isolation theory, I am convinced that the majority of written history is correct. As to religion, people have not been able to agree on that topic for thousands of years.

RWLJ also wrote

I guarantee you I could put you on a trail to the true history and it’s most sacred places. I have already given you keys to Atlantis, for those who are willing to start on a new quest.


I knew many years ago when I had to give up certain things that I had cherished that I was likely to lose the wife I loved and all my friends. But I believed truth was more important than the messenger or the group. We have failed to truly help out the group when we sell out to appetite or give way to the old traditions of history. This came about by assumptions building on assumptions until it was an endless river of assumptions. Those that are aboard that ship on that river will become lost in the sea of ignorance.


Thank you if you have listened well.

Thank you for your posts, however we don't seem to have a basis on which we can have a discussion - you appear to hold written history in contempt, which I do not share that view. I am fairly convinced of the true location of Atlantis, and it is not in the Americas nor in the Mediterranean, it is located in the Atlantic just as Plato, Strabo, Solon, Hellanicus and others said it was. One major problem with locating Atlantis in America, (or Utah/AZ) is that the basic description given by the ancient sources includes the fact that "past" the islands of Atlantis, you would reach the true continent which "rims the whole of the ocean" and this is the Americas. If you place Atlantis in Utah, then you need another continent to rim the ocean "beyond" that - and Asia does not form such a rim to the Pacific. The description simply won't fit for America, or South America for that matter.


Last point but I do recall our meeting at the Dutch hunters rendezvous, and while we did not agree it was a very pleasant meeting as well as interesting. I would hope that the fact we may not agree on something, has no bearing on friendship, as that is how I view it.


Good luck and good hunting to you Wes, I hope you find the treasures that you seek. And likewise to any and all whom are reading our discussions, the quest for Atlantis is one of the most fascinating and entertaining pursuits we can indulge in. Many have already found their own "Atlantis" while others are still seeking. According to our historians, there could not be an Atlantis at the time Plato describes, but slowly the evidence is mounting that it did exist, and was not the only civilization in existence when it was destroyed by a cataclysm which has left reverberations in cultural myths for thousands of years.
Roy ~ Oroblanco

 

[cactusjumper]

Cactusjumper wrote



What is so hard to explain about that? Seems like we have been over this, but here is what Plutarch wrote (translated into English)



Plato embellished the story of Atlantis. You have pointed out one of the embellishments, obviously "borrowed" from the Minoans, whom the Greeks certainly knew about since they had been trading with them, and eventually invaded and conquered them. Your extract comes from Critias, which has several such anachronisms, there is no such statement in Timaeus. Neither does any other ancient source mention it. Stick with Timaeus, or it is a minefield of embellishments in Critias.
__________________________________________________________________

Roy,

OK......So what I believe you are saying is that Critias is, mostly/"a minefield of embellishments", from Plato's fertile imagination, while Timaeus is to be believed as Gospel. Do I have that right?

Take care,

Joe

 

[Oroblanco]

Roy,

OK......So what I believe you are saying is that Critias is, mostly/"a minefield of embellishments", from Plato's fertile imagination, while Timaeus is to be believed as Gospel. Do I have that right?

Take care,

Joe

Close - I believe Critias has the embellishments, though exactly how many, or whether it is "mostly" embellishments, I would not say. On the other hand, I would not go so far as to call the Timaeus the "gospel" on Atlantis either, heck most of Timaeus has little or nothing to do with Atlantis after all. I don't like to use absolute type statements concerning ancient history.

But as to Critias, really what is in it, that is impossible? In your opinion, or as a statement of fact. Thank you in advance.
Roy ~ Oroblanco

 

[cactusjumper]

Close - I believe Critias has the embellishments, though exactly how many, or whether it is "mostly" embellishments, I would not say. On the other hand, I would not go so far as to call the Timaeus the "gospel" on Atlantis either, heck most of Timaeus has little or nothing to do with Atlantis after all. I don't like to use absolute type statements concerning ancient history.

But as to Critias, really what is in it, that is impossible? In your opinion, or as a statement of fact. Thank you in advance.
Roy ~ Oroblanco

Hi Roy,

I don't know that anything in Critias or Timaeus is "impossible", but highly improbable does enter the picture here. Since I believe Plato did mix historical reality with his fictional Atlantis, Thera and Crete make the fiction more believable, if you study their history.

Do you believe Athens had a military capable of defeating the Atlantis invasion? Don't think they had much before, around, 500 BC.

Take care,

Joe

 

[Oroblanco]

Hi Roy,

I don't know that anything in Critias or Timaeus is "impossible", but highly improbable does enter the picture here. Since I believe Plato did mix historical reality with his fictional Atlantis, Thera and Crete make the fiction more believable, if you study their history.

Do you believe Athens had a military capable of defeating the Atlantis invasion? Don't think they had much before, around, 500 BC.

Take care,
Joe

Another question that depends on how one interprets the term "military".

Yes, absolutely, Athens could have led an alliance of several peoples against the Atlantians, to victory. But this does not require that they had armored phalanxes of infantry backed by hypaspists. slingers and archers, they could have been more like tribal warriors. A simile can be pointed to in the Indian wars of our American west; primitive tribes were able to occasionally defeat the trained modern Army forces sent against them, much to the shock and dismay of the public. The Athenian alliance may have outnumbered the Atlantians invasion force by a considerable margin.

Plato does not provide details on this battle in which the Athenian led alliance was victorious, not even as to how many combatants were on each side. The number could have been large or perhaps quite small, we simply don't know. And we could point out that the people of Attica (the state of Athens, for our readers) were tribal even into the early days of their Republic, it is not unreasonable to think that they were tribal in 9500 BC. It is also not unreasonable that they might have had weapons and protective equipment equal to, or nearly so, to that used by Atlantians, even if they were incapable of producing these items themselves, as they could acquire them via trade or combat. This method of obtaining weaponry is well attested in many ancient cultures.

One last point here but I think it is not wise to interpret Plato's story absolutely literally; where the Egyptian priest is telling Solon that "his" ancestors, the "Athenians" may be examples of where names were attached for simplicity of the Greek readers it was intended for, not necessarily 100% accurately. The Athens referred to, may have been the Egyptian priest's way of saying "your ancestors" and the actual name could have been quite different. Plato included in his two texts the statement

For there was a time, Solon, before the great deluge of all, when the city which now is Athens was first in warand in every way the best governed of all cities, is said to have performed the noblest deeds and to have had the fairest constitution of any of which tradition tells, under the face of heaven.

Notice he wrote "the city which is NOW Athens" which can be interpreted to mean that the former city did not necessarily have the same name.

And:

"Yet, before proceeding further in the narrative,I ought to warn you, that you must not be surprised if you should perhaps hear Hellenic names given to foreigners. I will tell you the reason of this: Solon, who was intending to use the tale for his poem, enquired into the meaning of the names, and found that the early Egyptians in writing them down had translated them into their own language, and he recovered the meaning of the several names and when copying them out again translated them into our language. My great-grandfather, Dropides, had the original writing, which is still in my possession, and was carefully studied by me when I was a child Therefore if you hear names such as are used in this country, you must not be surprised, for I have told how they came to be introduced

."

So when we say the Athenians, we are making an assumption that may well be quite erroneous. There is reason to believe that the most ancient Hellenes were called something quite different - remember that the Aeolians, Dorians, Ionians etc were all relative "latecomers" to the Hellenic peninsula, arriving (or invading, or being driven into) in the third millennium BC

It is too easy to project our own preconceived ideas of what Atlantis, Athens (and Egypt for that matter) might have been, when really we should not. I can see an Atlantis, and Athens, Egypt, Damascus and Jericho, as well as other peoples, that would fit Plato's description very well, even including the elephants which Plato does not say were domesticated, but without the fantastical and anachronistic features. In fact I would bet real money on it (real as in silver or gold).

Roy ~ Oroblanco

 

[Rebel - KGC]

I would blame it ALL, on Solon... the GREEK!

 

[cactusjumper]

Another question that depends on how one interprets the term "military".

Yes, absolutely, Athens could have led an alliance of several peoples against the Atlantians, to victory. But this does not require that they had armored phalanxes of infantry backed by hypaspists. slingers and archers, they could have been more like tribal warriors. A simile can be pointed to in the Indian wars of our American west; primitive tribes were able to occasionally defeat the trained modern Army forces sent against them, much to the shock and dismay of the public. The Athenian alliance may have outnumbered the Atlantians invasion force by a considerable margin.

Plato does not provide details on this battle in which the Athenian led alliance was victorious, not even as to how many combatants were on each side. The number could have been large or perhaps quite small, we simply don't know. And we could point out that the people of Attica (the state of Athens, for our readers) were tribal even into the early days of their Republic, it is not unreasonable to think that they were tribal in 9500 BC. It is also not unreasonable that they might have had weapons and protective equipment equal to, or nearly so, to that used by Atlantians, even if they were incapable of producing these items themselves, as they could acquire them via trade or combat. This method of obtaining weaponry is well attested in many ancient cultures.

One last point here but I think it is not wise to interpret Plato's story absolutely literally; where the Egyptian priest is telling Solon that "his" ancestors, the "Athenians" may be examples of where names were attached for simplicity of the Greek readers it was intended for, not necessarily 100% accurately. The Athens referred to, may have been the Egyptian priest's way of saying "your ancestors" and the actual name could have been quite different. Plato included in his two texts the statement

Notice he wrote "the city which is NOW Athens" which can be interpreted to mean that the former city did not necessarily have the same name.

And:

."

So when we say the Athenians, we are making an assumption that may well be quite erroneous. There is reason to believe that the most ancient Hellenes were called something quite different - remember that the Aeolians, Dorians, Ionians etc were all relative "latecomers" to the Hellenic peninsula, arriving (or invading, or being driven into) in the third millennium BC

It is too easy to project our own preconceived ideas of what Atlantis, Athens (and Egypt for that matter) might have been, when really we should not. I can see an Atlantis, and Athens, Egypt, Damascus and Jericho, as well as other peoples, that would fit Plato's description very well, even including the elephants which Plato does not say were domesticated, but without the fantastical and anachronistic features. In fact I would bet real money on it (real as in silver or gold).

Roy ~ Oroblanco

Roy,

Personally, my problem does not rest with names. It really boils down to what we know of humanity, in general, at the end of the Ice Age. In that era, from what I have read, people were pretty busy just trying to survive. Hunter gatherers were the rule rather than organized warriors societies. Men could not leave their families for long periods of time to engage in distant conquests.

Native American conflicts were over better hunting grounds, for the most part. They, generally, lived next door to those whose land they coveted. Basically, that's how the Apache eventually ended up in Arizona, as well as some of the other less desirable lands.

Atlantis was said to be an island of plenty, with everything the people needed to live a good life. What reason could be found for them to load up their "ships" and travel thousands of miles to conquer other lands........at the end of the Ice Age?

Take care,

Joe

 

[markmar]

Roy

You wrote how the Atlantic Ocean took the name from Atlantis .
From the other side , the Aegean Sea took the name from the sea god Aegaeus which was an ally of the Titans. Look at Sea Gods of Greek Mythology THEOI.COM .

 

[cactusjumper]

Roy

You wrote how the Atlantic Ocean took the name from Atlantis .
From the other side , the Aegean Sea took the name from the sea god Aegaeus which was an ally of the Titans. Look at Sea Gods of Greek Mythology THEOI.COM .

Marius,

Actually, the Atlantic Ocean took its name from Atlas. It was the Sea of Atlas.

Take care,

Joe

 

[markmar]

Joe

I only quoted Roy . He wrote :

Plato, Strabo, Diodorus, Plutarch all locate Atlantis in the Atlantic ocean. This is a key issue and trying to "move" Atlantis to another location then makes it not Atlantis. Otherwise we need to re-name the Atlantic ocean.

Actually , Atlantis took its name from Atlas .

 

[cactusjumper]

Joe

I only quoted Roy . He wrote :



Actually , Atlantis took its name from Atlas .

Marius,

Believe Atlantis means "Island of Atlas".

Joe

 

[RWLJ]

Oroblonco,
I have never implied that all history has been corrupted. I can guarantee that you will never discover the island of Atlantis in what is called the Atlantic Ocean today. I have not allowed myself to get tunnel vision on a lot of subjects, as the schools and a lot of different institutions program people to have today. Look at all those that have for a long, long time looked for the island of Atlantis being guided by assumptions and copycat named places that have not came up with any creditable evidence. You would think by now they would have double checked some of the premises that they have based their research from and start looking at a bigger picture.

The oldest trick in the book is red herring. When you conquer a people you give new places old names after two or three generations of enslavement they do not know the different. Constantine and his mother Helen, were go examples of that. The Arab Jews in the Middle East created a New Jerusalem and called it such.

Copycat naming is done for a verity of reasons and has existed since history has been recorded. When you can recognize the first Mount Olympus and separate the man from the place then you will know that Atlas was king of Atlantis and Atlas’s land was right where the Aztecs and many other ancient nations put it. If we have too much pride in our false traditions and our learning then we should remember what a wise man said “pride cometh before a fall”. If it was not for people’s pride as Apostil Paul says in Romans chapter 11 verse 25 people would pull in their horns with humility and seek out the truth.

For a good example of corrupted history; look at of all the thousands of people that have looked in the Superstitious Mountains for the so called Dutchman’s gold. Much history has been corrupted from the beginning people tell history that feathers their nest more often than not. Let me give you a couple of good examples in recent times. When I was young the news portrayed that Kennedy created a blockade around Cuba which in reality was a joke. The Russians went through and paid little attention to it.

Another one was that Oswald killed Kennedy. Jack Ruby killed Oswald so that he would not be exposed for having playing a leading role in the plot. He considered that it was the lesser of the two evils. Jack Ruby had been working with some powerful people and they used him to channel the means for the orchestrators of the plot to accomplish their mission.

Of the four key men that were directly involved one was shooting from the depository building and one from the grassy knoll. The man that executed the plan was taking stolen cars that Jack Ruby was supplying them with and selling them in Mexico. People in power in Mexico that did not want the Catholic party to over throw then with connections to the Kennedys were plenty willing to pay for those new stolen cars. Jack Ruby was supplying these cars to the top authority that was over the assignation. That person told me a month before Kennedy was killed that Kennedy was going to be done away with. His intentions were to take over the world by assassinating its leaders. His ideas worked real well with Linden B. Johnson and others that were pissed off at Kennedy.

I personally investigated into the matter a while after Kennedy was killed. The real sniper from the depository building was one of the ten best shots in the US Army. His friend shot from the Grassy Knoll.

A man that I became aquatinted with and knew too well that had been in the State Department told me himself how he used his badge to get people out of the way of the local police and how he had got and burnt courthouse records. When they found out or figure that I knew too much they created plots and plans. When they could not trick me and get me where they could kill me privately then they tried to stir up a mop in Mexico saying I was out to kill their leader. I was lucky enough to bring enough influence and demonstrate that their false accusations were lies. That happened in Chihuahua Mexico.

Later on I bumped into one of their men in Tijuana and he tried to pick a fight with me with a bunch more false accusations so he would have a chance to kill me. My wife who was sitting in the car at the time but who was out of hearing distance was sensing and could see the physical movement of what was going on. When I got back in the car she said something unlike she ever said before or sense. She said “we do not want to be in this area unless we have a gun”. Not only was the man trying to pick a fight with me but there was a lady there egging him on. I was shocked by her accusations. The last I heard they had once again refused her probation for killing the man that she wanted to kill me. He obviously knew too much and had become a threat to their hierarchy.

I was very naive when I was younger as to what was going on around me. When I looked under a brand new pickup when I was looking for a certain man and caught the guy cutting out and replacing a serial number on the frame I was Naïve enough that I asked him why he was doing that. From that day forward I started to be a concern to them and they started to be a concern to me. I saw enough corruption on every side and I did not want to be a party to any of it. Nor was I a party to any of it, even though they tried to solicit me. When I flatly told the leader I had no interest in having anything to do with his double dealing.

The government including the perpetuators of Kennedy’s death had so many people deceived. There were innocent people in both groups unknowingly supporting wolves in sheep’s clothing. I saw the blind leaders in corruption lead the masses of innocent religious people who were worshipping the ground these corrupt leaders were walking on. There are many good reasons why I have not written a book on the subject. But here again truth is stranger than fiction. This has been going on since Cain killed Abel. The man that structured the killing of Kennedy ended up killing his own brother and became a true Cain in his family.

Another good example of false history was that the people of the United States thought that John D. Lee was executed. I believed that John D. Lee and some Indians killed Brigham Young. I do not know it, nor do I have proof of it. Brigham Young was his partner in the mining. He thought that Brigham Young was the wise one until he was made the scapegoat.

My dad, who was not a liar, told me the following several times without any variations. He said when he was a young man when he went to Salk Lake that he met Brigham Young’s nurse she told him that she heard a shot fired and when she went in back of the house there laid Brigham Young dead. He said, latter on that he met Brigham Young’s gardener, who also said he heard a shot and found Brigham Young dead. He said that Brigham Young had been shot and also had an arrow in him.

Like Kennedy there were many reasons for a lot of people to want him dead. His acts of blood atoning people was probable one of the many reasons. This should be kept in mind; the government was in the process of prosecuting Brigham Young for the Mountain Meadow massacre. I am sure there were some in high places that did not want to see the church drug through the mud because of Brigham Young. There have been rumors since his death that Brigham Young was blood atoned. Some say that the type of sicknesses he was having at the time was the symptoms of being poisoned.

So with Brigham and with Kennedy there may have been more than one that wanted their death.

I know from other histories that my wife’s great, great grandfather was stirring the pot, being against Brigham Young’s blood atonement and what had happened at the Mountain Meadow Massacre. He had helped one of the families that were a part of the wagon train and for doing so, he was hit in the head and never quit recovered. There was a letter he sent to someone in Kanab, Utah that not too long ago was found in an attic. It identified that three of Wesley Powel’s men were killed in a Toquerville ward. He highly disapproved of it. At the time he was about to get excommunicated from the church for his stand against unchristen like policies. He received a message that he needed to be patient things were going to change. It was not long before Brigham Young was dead and the church officially stopped practicing blood atonement.

I have saw all my life where leaders from all over the world have denied their people and others the true history of what was going on. If someone tells me that we have been given correct history then I have to draw the conclusion that they are either blind or in conspiracy with the wolves or they think it is easier to float with the stream where there is more agreement to feather their nests or they are out to protect their pride.

I do not think it is right to stand by and let people be buffaloed by those that are perpetuating falsehoods that keep the ignorant masses blind. I would like to see one piece of evident of Atlantis being in what is called the Atlantic Ocean today. Likewise I would like to see one piece of evident that Joshua back to Adam was ever in the Middle East or that the first Mount Olympus with the Greek gods was ever in the Greece of Plato’s day. Which one of about forty Mount Olympuses around the world is the original one? The one that Hercules and Atlas and all the other gods of the ancients tied in with. Likewise, where are the ancient records that support all these claims out there?

It is not in the interest for any church leader or any other sort of leader that is building on past false teaching to support the truth and lose their supporters or tithing payers. It is very seldom those with power of influence gives up that which breads their butter.

I have listened for many years where different ones said where different things where and I could see where they lacked understanding on history and language. My brother DL argued with me many year ago that Atlantis was in the Atlantic Ocean. One day my sister found a bunch of books in a hole out in the dessert and one of the books was the Pre-Diluvian Civilizations by Ignatius Donnelly. She gave it to my brother DL and after he read it he called me up and told me that I needed to read the book. He told me that some of Donnelly’s research backed up what I had been telling him.

The moral of the story is if you stay with the truth and the facts of reality you will never trip yourselves up.

While there is a lot of beautiful true history out there some of it has been tainted. Why would someone want to white wash history?

Good luck in finding the treasures that are right for you.

R. W.

 

[cactusjumper]

Joe Ribaudo

 

[markmar]

Joe

The land of Atlas was in a large horizon . He kept all the sky on his shoulders . Atlantis is a saga .

 

[cactusjumper]

Joe

The land of Atlas was in a large horizon . He kept all the sky on his shoulders . Atlantis is a saga .

ZX

Marius,

No.......Atlantis is a fable, what RWLJ just wrote would be considered a saga.

Joe