Atlantis

[Oroblanco]

In support of SDCFIA's contention of the possibility of multiple cataclysms having destroyed "civilization" (which is open to debate of course what exactly qualifies as a civilization) Plato has a couple of passages that are relevant. Quote

O Solon, Solon, you Hellenes are never anything but children, and there is not an old man among you. Solon in return asked him what he meant. I mean to say, he replied, that in mind you are all young; there is no old opinion handed down among you by ancient tradition, nor any science which is hoary with age. And I will tell you why. There have been, and will be again, many destructions of mankind arising out of many causes; the greatest have been brought about by the agencies of fire and water, and other lesser ones by innumerable other causes. There is a story, which even you have preserved, that once upon a time Paethon, the son of Helios, having yoked the steeds in his father's chariot, because he was not able to drive them in the path of his father, burnt up all that was upon the earth, and was himself destroyed by a thunderbolt. Now this has the form of a myth, but really signifies a declination of the bodies moving in the heavens around the earth, and a great conflagration of things upon the earth, which recurs after long intervals; at such times those who live upon the mountains and in dry and lofty places are more liable to destruction than those who dwell by rivers or on the seashore. And from this calamity the Nile, who is our never-failing saviour, delivers and preserves us. When, on the other hand, the gods purge the earth with a deluge of water, the survivors in your country are herdsmen and shepherds who dwell on the mountains, but those who, like you, live in cities are carried by the rivers into the sea. Whereas in this land, neither then nor at any other time, does the water come down from above on the fields, having always a tendency to come up from below; for which reason the traditions preserved here are the most ancient.

The fact is, that wherever the extremity of winter frost or of summer does not prevent, mankind exist, sometimes in greater, sometimes in lesser numbers. And whatever happened either in your country or in ours, or in any other region of which we are informed-if there were any actions noble or great or in any other way remarkable, they have all been written down by us of old, and are preserved in our temples. Whereas just when you and other nations are beginning to be provided with letters and the other requisites of civilized life, after the usual interval, the stream from heaven, like a pestilence, comes pouring down, and leaves only those of you who are destitute of letters and education; and so you have to begin all over again like children, and know nothing of what happened in ancient times, either among us or among yourselves. As for those genealogies of yours which you just now recounted to us, Solon, they are no better than the tales of children. In the first place you remember a single deluge only, but there were many previous ones; in the next place, you do not know that there formerly dwelt in your land the fairest and noblest race of men which ever lived, and that you and your whole city are descended from a small seed or remnant of them which survived. And this was unknown to you, because, for many generations, the survivors of that destruction died, leaving no written word. For there was a time, Solon, before the great deluge of all, when the city which now is Athens was first in war and in every way the best governed of all cities, is said to have performed the noblest deeds and to have had the fairest constitution of any of which tradition tells, under the face of heaven.

You probably recognize this is from the Timaeus of Plato, the Egyptian priest is telling Solon that the Earth has had many cataclysms destroying civilizations, which are forgotten because only the uneducated people survive them.

Science would also support multiple cataclysms disturbing our planet through the millenia.

Please do continue;

 

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[Oroblanco]

PS to SDCFIA yes I neglected to mention the Basques, as well as prince Madoc or Madog, Henry Sinclair, the ancient Chinese voyage to Fu Sang (I don't buy the 1421 massive fleet visit, sorry) Arab merchants of the 7th century AD, possible Egyptians, Numidians, Greeks and a number of others. Most of them have very little documentation or none at all (as with the supposed African king who sailed to S. America with a fleet of boats and colonists in the 1400s) so it is hard to build a case for their success. In recent years the DNA studies of Native Americans are providing proof of ancient visitors who left their DNA as a mark, so the old Isolation Theory is a weak one today.

Haven't touched on the reverse trips either - Plutarch records a voyage by Americans to visit Carthage when a long period of time interrupted their visits, the Americans found Carthage had been destroyed by the Romans and returned. The story in Tacitus of an "Indian" cast ashore in Germany circa 1st century AD is thought to have been an American Eskimo. Anyway the oceans and seas have not been such obstacles to mankind as our historians have been claiming.

Sorry for the digression there, please do continue.

 

[BillA]

a reference which I could not uncover

"[FONT=&quot]Nenets (Samoyed) myth goes that a flood or deluge hits the earth every 2,000 years, destroying civilization, after which the world is recreated and exists for another 2,000 years[/FONT]"
(https://arctic.ru/international/20200226/911085.html)

anyone ?

 

[BillA]

somewhat more on the 74,000 year event

https://sputniknews.com/science/202...anic-winter-74000-years-ago-claims-new-study/

 

[sdcfia]

somewhat more on the 74,000 year event

It’s been stated that the human critter today is virtually unchanged physically and mentally over the past 100,000 years. If that’s true, it’s not hard to imagine that past higher civilized societies, bombed by natural events back to the Stone Age, could reboot from ground zero with a small group of survivors and advance back to similar past levels of accomplishment. It’d take many generations. Only to happen again every 12,000 years. Ha ha., joke’s on us.

 

[Oroblanco]

I think I have posted this before as well, but it is also in support of SDCFIA's contention of multiple cataclysms on our planet disturbing the progress of mankind.
quote

Thus far went the record given me by the Egyptians and their priests; and they showed me that the time from the first king to that priest of Hephaestus, who was the last, covered three hundred and forty‑one generations of men, and that in this time such also had been the number of their kings, and of their high priests. Now three hundred generations make up ten thousand years, three generations being equal to a century. And over and above the three hundred the remaining forty‑one cover thirteen hundred and forty years. Thus the whole sum is eleven thousand three hundred and forty years; in all which time (they said) they had had no king who was a god in human form, nor had there been any such thing either before or after those years among the rest of the kings of Egypt. Four times in this period (so they told me) the sun rose contrary to his wont; twice he rose where he now sets, and twice he set where now he rises; yet Egypt at these times underwent no change, neither in the produce of the river and the land, nor in the matter of sickness and death.

Hecataeus the historian was once at Thebes, where he made for himself a genealogy which connected him by lineage with a god in the sixteenth p451 generation. But the priests did for him what they did for me (who had not traced my own lineage). They brought me into the great inner court of the temple and showed me there wooden figures which they counted up to the number they had already given, for every high priest sets there in his lifetime a statue of himself; counting and pointing to these, the priests showed me that each inherited from his father; they went through the whole tale of figures, back to the earliest from that of him who had lateliest died. Thus when Hecataeus had traced his descent and claimed that his sixteenth forefather was a god, the priests too traced a line of descent according to the method of their counting; for they would not be persuaded by him that a man could be descended from a god; they traced descent through the whole line of three hundred and forty-five figures, not connecting it with any ancestral god or hero, but declaring each figure to be a "Piromis" the son of a "Piromis," that is, in the Greek language, one who is in all respects a good man. 144 Rawlinson p222 Thus they showed that all whose statues stood there had been good men, but wholly unlike gods. Before these men, they said, the rulers of Egypt were gods, but none had been contemporary with the human priests. Of these gods one or other had in succession been supreme; the last of them to rule the country was Osiris' son Horus, called by the Greeks Apollo; he deposed Typhon,20 and was the last divine king of Egypt. Osiris is in the Greek language, Dionysus.

Herodotus The Histories book II chaps 142-144 online at: http://penelope.uchicago.edu/Thayer/E/Roman/Texts/Herodotus/2B*.html
Note that the Egyptian priests did the same thing to Hecataeus with his own family tree supposed to be descending from a "god" as was done to Solon.

Also, from Diodorus on the Amazons, the confusion concerning Africa and the Americas is apparent in his wording. (For some reason some thought the Americas were somehow an extension of Africa, which was continued even by the Vatican up to the time of the Norse colony in Vinland)

quote

We are told, namely, that there was once on the western parts of Libya, on the bounds of the inhabited world, a race which was ruled by women and followed a manner of life unlike that which prevails among us. For it was the custom among them that the women should practise the arts of war and be required to serve in the army for a fixed period, during which time they maintained their virginity; then, when the years of their service in the field had expired, they went in to the men for the procreation of children, but they kept in their hands the administration of the magistracies and of all the affairs of the state. 2 The men, however, like our married women, spent their days about the house, carrying out the orders which were given them by their wives; and they took no part in military campaigns or in office or in the exercise of free citizenship9 in the affairs of the community by virtue of which they might become presumptuous and rise up against the women. 3 When their children were born the babies were turned over to the men, who brought them up on milk and such cooked foods as were appropriate to the age of the infants; and if it happened that a girl was born, its breasts were p251 seared that they might not develop at the time of maturity; for they thought that the breasts, as they stood out from the body, were no small hindrance in warfare; and in fact it is because they have been deprived of their breasts that they are called by the Greeks Amazons.10 4 As mythology relates, their home was on an island which, because it was in the west, was called Hespera, and it lay in the marsh Tritonis. This marsh was near the ocean which surrounds the earth and received its name from a certain river Triton which emptied into it; and this marsh was also near Ethiopia and that mountain by the shore of the ocean which is the highest of those in the vicinity and impinges upon the ocean and is called by the Greeks Atlas. 5 The island mentioned above was of great size and full of fruit-bearing trees of every kind, from which the natives secured their food. It contained also a multitude of flocks and herds, namely, of goats and sheep, from which possessors received milk and meat for their sustenance; but grain the nation used not at all because the use of this fruit of the earth had not yet been discovered among them.

<Library of History book III chap 53> online at http://penelope.uchicago.edu/Thayer/E/Roman/Texts/Diodorus_Siculus/3D*.html




[/URL]
Please do continue, had another bit from Pliny the elder proving the ancient Greeks were certainly aware of the spherical shape of the world, but it is not necessary.

 

[sdcfia]

I think I have posted this before as well, but it is also in support of SDCFIA's contention of multiple cataclysms on our planet disturbing the progress of mankind.

Herodotus The Histories book II chaps 142-144 online at: http://penelope.uchicago.edu/Thayer/E/Roman/Texts/Herodotus/2B*.html
Note that the Egyptian priests did the same thing to Hecataeus with his own family tree supposed to be descending from a "god" as was done to Solon.

Also, from Diodorus on the Amazons, the confusion concerning Africa and the Americas is apparent in his wording. (For some reason some thought the Americas were somehow an extension of Africa, which was continued even by the Vatican up to the time of the Norse colony in Vinland)

<Library of History book III chap 53> online at http://penelope.uchicago.edu/Thayer/E/Roman/Texts/Diodorus_Siculus/3D*.html




[/URL]
Please do continue, had another bit from Pliny the elder proving the ancient Greeks were certainly aware of the spherical shape of the world, but it is not necessary.

Good post Oro. Science, with new data provided by the recent deep space probes and advancing technology, is explaining the myths and legends that have baffled us. We tend to dismiss most of it as cave man campfire stories, but that now seems to be changing. In a nutshell, a working model is that our solar system routinely passes through ionized dust/plasma clouds and “shorts out” when the sun gets close to it. This causes the micro nova (super flare, or whatever you want to call it) and triggers the final phase of the pole reversal on earth. Thermal blasts, particle bombardment (large and small), oceanic displacement, rotational change on earth - really bad news for surface dwellers. The pockets of survivors tell the stories of what they witnessed and are preserved as mythology. Unfortunately, these events seem to have occurred on a regular schedule.

 

[BillA]

sd
are the pole reversals tied to the 12,000 yr cycle ? (you kinda threw everything into the pot)
(12,000 would be hidden in the associated range of any pole reversal dating)

 

[sdcfia]

sd
are the pole reversals tied to the 12,000 yr cycle ? (you kinda threw everything into the pot)
(12,000 would be hidden in the associated range of any pole reversal dating)

By my understanding, yes - the sun micronova and earth pole reversal are connected. Other intermittent events are also alleged to occur on a more sporadic schedule, according to others.

Vogt's YouTube presentations (Diehold Foundation) go into a lot of scientific detail about this stuff, using earth science evidence and copious historical references that require a lot of attention since he is not so much a slick presenter, but more of a nerd scientist giving lectures. Some of his related theories, such as explaining the Diehold, ("the operating system of the physical universe") and the origin of the original Hebrew alphabet glyphs, are a bit over my head at times, but fascinating nonetheless. A bit difficult until you catch on to his style.

Try to find the un-redacted copies of the Chang documents too for additional historical background. Of course, the YouTube channel Suspicious0bservers is hardline current science and quite informative.

 

[Oroblanco]

This 12,000 year cycle is another issue that leads to more questions than answers. For example, quite a few ancient cultures have a 'great year' or 'year of Jubilee' and similar LONG measures of time. What purpose were those very long measurements of time, for an ancient culture?

From science we have the Milankovitch 405,000 year climate cycle. The Sumerians had a 'great year' or cycle of time spanning 26,000 years as one example. It is thought to have been a way to track the precession of the pole stars as the Earth's position changes over time but who knows really? Plato had come up with a 36,000 year long 'great year' which he thought would bring all the visible planets, the Moon and the Sun would return to the same point in their respective orbits. The ancient Jewish historian Flavius Josephus talked about a great year of 600 years. There are several others - but it begs the question as to what the purposes of having such long time measurements. The precession cycle is not quite 26,000 years it is closer to 25,800, but what is the relevance of a 600 year measure of time or others that do not appear to match with a known natural cycle. Could it be for predicting massive cataclysms, rather than just what star the north pole is pointing at?

Please do continue,

 

[sdcfia]

This 12,000 year cycle is another issue that leads to more questions than answers. For example, quite a few ancient cultures have a 'great year' or 'year of Jubilee' and similar LONG measures of time. What purpose were those very long measurements of time, for an ancient culture?

From science we have the Milankovitch 405,000 year climate cycle. The Sumerians had a 'great year' or cycle of time spanning 26,000 years as one example. It is thought to have been a way to track the precession of the pole stars as the Earth's position changes over time but who knows really? Plato had come up with a 36,000 year long 'great year' which he thought would bring all the visible planets, the Moon and the Sun would return to the same point in their respective orbits. The ancient Jewish historian Flavius Josephus talked about a great year of 600 years. There are several others - but it begs the question as to what the purposes of having such long time measurements. The precession cycle is not quite 26,000 years it is closer to 25,800, but what is the relevance of a 600 year measure of time or others that do not appear to match with a known natural cycle. Could it be for predicting massive cataclysms, rather than just what star the north pole is pointing at?

Please do continue,

Good questions. Even today, why do we care that that earth's true north will be pointing to a different fixed star thousands of years from now (assuming there are no changes in our solar orbit, etc, while we wait)? How does that benefit us, other than "knowledge"? Another: how did those ancients calculate those long cycles? Were they using their own intelligence, or was the info handed down to them? Other than numerous enigmatic ruins displaying obvious skill sets used to construct, and plenty of myths and legends, we don't have much of an idea about human civilizations further back in time than the Sumerians 6,000 years ago. And how did those Sumerians get so smart?

 

[Ryano]

I tried watching one of Vogt’s Diebold videos and he comes off as missing a few screws. Maybe his written work is easier to follow but lecture isn’t his forte. The video i watched was about magnetism but he used Magnetic Hill as an example - which has nothing to do with magnetic vortexes or whatever - it’s just a well-known optical illusion-tourist attraction. Maybe I missed his point but I lost faith in the subject matter at that point.. it was late at night and I was half asleep.

One question I do have about the epochal micro-nova event is wouldn’t we expect to find an evenly distributed record of radioactivity in the Earth’s rocks and/or organic material from a solar ejection ?

 

[sdcfia]

I tried watching one of Vogt’s Diebold videos and he comes off as missing a few screws. Maybe his written work is easier to follow but lecture isn’t his forte. The video i watched was about magnetism but he used Magnetic Hill as an example - which has nothing to do with magnetic vortexes or whatever - it’s just a well-known optical illusion-tourist attraction. Maybe I missed his point but I lost faith in the subject matter at that point.. it was late at night and I was half asleep.

One question I do have about the epochal micro-nova event is wouldn’t we expect to find an evenly distributed record of radioactivity in the Earth’s rocks and/or organic material from a solar ejection ?

Yeah, he's a tough one to stick with, but don't throw the baby out with the bathwater. I personally skipped past the subjects that I wasn't interested in, such as the magnetic anomalies. I'm not endorsing all the guy's theories, but I am identifying an interesting source of food for thought. Of course, I've been a contrarian since a very early age, so what do I know?

 

[Oroblanco]

Yeah, he's a tough one to stick with, but don't throw the baby out with the bathwater. I personally skipped past the subjects that I wasn't interested in, such as the magnetic anomalies. I'm not endorsing all the guy's theories, but I am identifying an interesting source of food for thought. Of course, I've been a contrarian since a very early age, so what do I know?

Cyclone Covey is a similar case - his writing is very difficult to follow the thought process but he has interesting theories. Diamonds hidden in the haystacks!

Please do continue,

 

[BillA]

how close is 12,800 yrs ?

https://scitechdaily.com/evidence-o...one-of-the-worlds-earliest-human-settlements/

 

[sdcfia]

Our government and the powers that control it began uncovering the earth cycle information shortly following WWII. In response to the Soviet Union's political aggressions, the US initiated a major covert reconnaissance mission, "Project Nanook", in 1946. Its purpose was to monitor the Russians' occupation efforts above the Arctic Circle, as their presence there would place the US in a vulnerable position for possible attack. This was the beginning of what later was called the Cold War.

The primary purpose of this effort was mapping and aerial photography, since very little reliable knowledge was available at the time in the high latitudes. Aerial navigation became a serious issue because of the unreliability of magnetic compasses near the North Pole, and our best brains began studying the problem in great depth. The navigation dilemma was solved, and in doing so, much knowledge was unexpectedly learned about the wandering of the magnetic poles relative to the rotational axis. Long story shortened: in the 1940s our government became aware of the cyclical pole reversals and their devastating effects on the planet.

The polar mission was eventually declassified, then documented in a book published in 1994, World in Peril, The Origin, Mission, and Scientific Findings of the 46th/72nd Reconnaissance Squadron, written by Ken White, who was the son of the mission's commander, Major Maynard E. White. It's 47 chapters, about 300 pages, filled with facts, photos, political history, personnel records and reminisces, and lots of information and details concerning the mission's solutions to problems dealing with the extreme climate. Of interest to this thread are Chapters 27 (Terrestrial Magnetism Studies), 28 (Clues to a Cataclysm), 29 (Polar Wander), and 30 (The Flip of the Earth). It's a free pdf download for those who are interested.

 

[sdcfia]

how close is 12,800 yrs ?

https://scitechdaily.com/evidence-o...one-of-the-worlds-earliest-human-settlements/

Presumably right on target, time-wise.

 

[sdcfia]

Atlantian remnant cultures? Ancient history and symbology from the Mediterranean Basin, possibly Egyptian-related. Another interesting Sepehr video.

 

[sdcfia]

And what about this alleged underground site near the Giza/Sphinx complex, for which there is current interest in uncovering? With 3,000 rooms full of art, hieroglyph-carved columns and other wonders, our understanding of the ancient past might be greatly enhanced. Herodotus, Strabo, Diodorus Siculus , Manetho, Pomponious Mela, Pliny the Elder and other ancients wrote about it. These were Herodotus's words:

“ ... This I have actually seen, a work beyond words. For if anyone put together the buildings of the Greeks and display of their labors, they would seem lesser in both effort and expense to this labyrinth… Even the pyramids are beyond words, and each was equal to many and mighty works of the Greeks. Yet the labyrinth surpasses even the pyramids. ...

…it has twelve courts covered in, with gates facing one another, six upon the North side and six upon the South, joining on one to another, and the same wall surrounds them all outside; and there are in it two kinds of chambers, the one kind below the ground and the other above upon these, three thousand in number, of each kind fifteen hundred. The upper set of chambers we ourselves saw;… but the chambers underground we heard about only… For the passages through the chambers, and the goings this way and that way through the courts, which were admirably adorned, afforded endless matter for marvel, as we went through from a court to the chambers beyond it, and from the chambers to colonnades, and from the colonnades to other rooms, and then from the chambers again to other courts. ...

... Over the whole of these is a roof made of stone like the walls; and the walls are covered with figures carved upon them, each court being surrounded with pillars of white stone fitted together most perfectly; and at the end of the labyrinth, by the corner of it, there is a pyramid of forty fathoms, upon which large figures are carved, and to this there is a way made underground. Such is this labyrinth. ...”

 

[dog the treasure hunter]

And what about this alleged underground site near the Giza/Sphinx complex, for which there is current interest in uncovering? With 3,000 rooms full of art, hieroglyph-carved columns and other wonders, our understanding of the ancient past might be greatly enhanced. Herodotus, Strabo, Diodorus Siculus , Manetho, Pomponious Mela, Pliny the Elder and other ancients wrote about it. These were Herodotus's words:

“ ... This I have actually seen, a work beyond words. For if anyone put together the buildings of the Greeks and display of their labors, they would seem lesser in both effort and expense to this labyrinth… Even the pyramids are beyond words, and each was equal to many and mighty works of the Greeks. Yet the labyrinth surpasses even the pyramids. ...

…it has twelve courts covered in, with gates facing one another, six upon the North side and six upon the South, joining on one to another, and the same wall surrounds them all outside; and there are in it two kinds of chambers, the one kind below the ground and the other above upon these, three thousand in number, of each kind fifteen hundred. The upper set of chambers we ourselves saw;… but the chambers underground we heard about only… For the passages through the chambers, and the goings this way and that way through the courts, which were admirably adorned, afforded endless matter for marvel, as we went through from a court to the chambers beyond it, and from the chambers to colonnades, and from the colonnades to other rooms, and then from the chambers again to other courts. ...

... Over the whole of these is a roof made of stone like the walls; and the walls are covered with figures carved upon them, each court being surrounded with pillars of white stone fitted together most perfectly; and at the end of the labyrinth, by the corner of it, there is a pyramid of forty fathoms, upon which large figures are carved, and to this there is a way made underground. Such is this labyrinth. ...”

I think thats where to look now,is underground. But if you dont get to see if for yourself, you probably wont get the truth on whats in there.