the everything site ...?

[Highmountain]

let me ask all of you a good question long ago a culture beleive they were savages yet time has shown we in fact were far less cultured then they were and still are ...

my question to you as a modern culture ...who dose this site belong to . the native american's or the 7 tribes before we renamed them ...? who 's secerd place will this be come...? will it remain the secerd place of the seven tribes . or will it become the next stop for any tom dick and harry to walk up and deface what they have willing given their lifes to protect .. i am sorry maybe its the red blood in me talking and maybe the red blood long to speak out from my past .. but i do not see it as most of you do ...if your laws can protect the wealth of white men let it do the same for them ad their secerd places ...if i feel the modern culture will deface this site .. i will never speak of it again and i will go to y place in the spirit world with a smile on my face ,knowing your pockets hold nothing and my spirit runth over .....

BB: Reminds me of the story of a widow who had a husband included an after-his-death trip to Hawaii for her in his life insurance policy. A month after the funeral she returned home with a smile. "Fred died but I got brown as a berry!"

If the site exists and is what you believe it is it's going to be defaced no matter who ends up with it, supposing you decide you want to 'get brown as a berry'. If whatever seven tribes you're referring to get it the grader-ditches leading to and from it will be filled with beer cans, candy wrappers and empty whiskey bottles, same as on every other Rez.

If whites get it the US Parks Service will pave it, put up rock paths and signs forbidding anyone to walk except where they say and don't pee where those old-timey folk peed and don't do nuthun but what we say you can, same as, say, Chaco.

Compare Canyon de Chelle to Chaco. Not much qualitative difference all in all. Just different folk picking the way they're going to deface the land they live on.

Do what you think's best.

Jack

 

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[Cubfan64]

let me ask all of you a good question long ago a culture beleive they were savages yet time has shown we in fact were far less cultured then they were and still are ...

my question to you as a modern culture ...who dose this site belong to . the native american's or the 7 tribes before we renamed them ...? who 's secerd place will this be come...? will it remain the secerd place of the seven tribes . or will it become the next stop for any tom dick and harry to walk up and deface what they have willing given their lifes to protect .. i am sorry maybe its the red blood in me talking and maybe the red blood long to speak out from my past .. but i do not see it as most of you do ...if your laws can protect the wealth of white men let it do the same for them ad their secerd places ...if i feel the modern culture will deface this site .. i will never speak of it again and i will go to y place in the spirit world with a smile on my face ,knowing your pockets hold nothing and my spirit runth over .....

BB: Reminds me of the story of a widow who had a husband included an after-his-death trip to Hawaii for her in his life insurance policy. A month after the funeral she returned home with a smile. "Fred died but I got brown as a berry!"

If the site exists and is what you believe it is it's going to be defaced no matter who ends up with it, supposing you decide you want to 'get brown as a berry'. If whatever seven tribes you're referring to get it the grader-ditches leading to and from it will be filled with beer cans, candy wrappers and empty whiskey bottles, same as on every other Rez.

If whites get it the US Parks Service will pave it, put up rock paths and signs forbidding anyone to walk except where they say and don't pee where those old-timey folk peed and don't do nuthun but what we say you can, same as, say, Chaco.

Compare Canyon de Chelle to Chaco. Not much qualitative difference all in all. Just different folk picking the way they're going to deface the land they live on.

Do what you think's best.

Jack

Sadly HM, I agree with you. I don't have a "horse in this specific race" at all, but your comments about what would/will happen to any site when found and made public I think are right on in general.

I hear it mentioned quite often that native americans have much more respect for their history and culture than caucasian's do. That may have been more true a generation or so ago, but I've seen and heard of a number of instances where that same culture and history has been desecrated and "sold off" by tribe members without a second thought. Greed unfortunately can be a universal trait among all humans - no matter what race or religion.

I don't honestly know what I would do if I came across something significant of a cultural or historic nature. I'd tend to think I would try to do the "right thing" as I have to be able to sleep at night as well as face myself in the mirror each morning - I'm just not sure what the "right thing" would be. I suppose each situation is different. I do know I'd like to someday have to make that decision

 

[Oroblanco]

Thank you Blindbowman for explaining your statement; sounds like a very puzzling place. I second Highmountain's suggestions about finding the 'edges' of the area and use of cameras etc to record the effect.

This might sound quite off topic, but by any chance did you or a member of your group witness any unusual lights, or even see a "ghost" while in that particular area? I have a reason for asking, which might be helpful to you or might not.

Last bit amigo, but I thought you told me, you had quit the whacky-tobacky? It is no skin off my nose but your posts (elsewhere) sure sound like you either have not quit or have returned to the use. Just curious of course, and thank you in advance,
Oroblanco

 

[Real de Tayopa Tropical Tramp]

Evening: Having spent about 10 years in psychic and paranormal investigation, I know of several things that can cause this.

A An intensive electrical field from natural causes, and of certain frequencies.

B An acoustical anomaly, from wind, local features, or whatever.

C A disorientation from light patterns and frequencies.

D Many times a combination of all, such as a gentle wind moving branches and leaves creating an acoustical / visual pattern, and of course, a static charge can also build up from this which in turn can effect a person.

E Of course, once experienced, you would naturally have a strong tendency to re-experience it, if not from the original cause, then from your own psyche or subconscious..

I would love to run a series of tests on you, but sigh, that is impossible . So as an alternative, if you know of anyone who practices Hypnotism, have a regressive session done. Go back to the time that you experienced this to relive and remember it.

Equally important, you must be very clear in your mind that you did not have a psychedelic flashback.

Don Jose de La Mancha

 

[Oroblanco]

HOLA mi amigo Don Jose', Dueno Real e Minas de Tayopa,

You have arrived at the same idea, which goes to prove that old saying about "great minds think alike" (or was it "sick minds think alike"? ) That is, (for anyone reading our words but no clue where it is going,) there could be some environmental cause of the effects reported by Blindbowman, such as those posted by Real de Tayopa, and at least one other - the presence of a quantity of quartz rock. It is only a theory (and NOT my own) that massive pressure on a layer of quartz rock produces a large electrical charge (the piezo-electric effect, which is factual) and that this large electrical charge then has psychometric effects on some people who happen to be in the presence of the electrical field. Some paranormal investigators have found similar effects in buildings where a lot of electrical wiring is concentrated in a small area, creating what they term a "fear cage" that causes feelings of unease, disorientation, confusion, fear, and POSSIBLY also seeing and hearing things that are 'not really there'.

I am not saying that Blindbowman and his compatriots did not experience what he says they did, only looking for some rational/semi-scientific explanation for what might cause such effects. The implication IF this effect is even caused by quartz rock and NOT something else is that it could indicate a large body of QUARTZ is present, though perhaps not exposed to the surface. A large vein of quartz could also be host to a large deposit of gold (which might act as an electrical capacitor, storing very large charges of electricity) or it could simply be bull quartz, having zero precious metals values but acting as a huge piezo-electric generator.

All of this is sheer speculation on my part, based on a THEORY about paranormal effects being caused by large electrical charges, which theory is NOT proven. The implication of a possible large body of quartz would certainly induce me to wish to return to the site to do MUCH more investigation, but that is MY OPINION only. Another string of "might"-s, "could"-s and "perhaps"-es that could be just so much hot air from Oroblanco.

Oroblanco

 

[Highmountain]

HOLA mi amigo Don Jose', Dueno Real e Minas de Tayopa,

You have arrived at the same idea, which goes to prove that old saying about "great minds think alike" (or was it "sick minds think alike"? ) That is, (for anyone reading our words but no clue where it is going,) there could be some environmental cause of the effects reported by Blindbowman, such as those posted by Real de Tayopa, and at least one other - the presence of a quantity of quartz rock. It is only a theory (and NOT my own) that massive pressure on a layer of quartz rock produces a large electrical charge (the piezo-electric effect, which is factual) and that this large electrical charge then has psychometric effects on some people who happen to be in the presence of the electrical field. Some paranormal investigators have found similar effects in buildings where a lot of electrical wiring is concentrated in a small area, creating what they term a "fear cage" that causes feelings of unease, disorientation, confusion, fear, and POSSIBLY also seeing and hearing things that are 'not really there'.

I am not saying that Blindbowman and his compatriots did not experience what he says they did, only looking for some rational/semi-scientific explanation for what might cause such effects. The implication IF this effect is even caused by quartz rock and NOT something else is that it could indicate a large body of QUARTZ is present, though perhaps not exposed to the surface. A large vein of quartz could also be host to a large deposit of gold (which might act as an electrical capacitor, storing very large charges of electricity) or it could simply be bull quartz, having zero precious metals values but acting as a huge piezo-electric generator.

All of this is sheer speculation on my part, based on a THEORY about paranormal effects being caused by large electrical charges, which theory is NOT proven. The implication of a possible large body of quartz would certainly induce me to wish to return to the site to do MUCH more investigation, but that is MY OPINION only. Another string of "might"-s, "could"-s and "perhaps"-es that could be just so much hot air from Oroblanco.

Oroblanco

Interesting thoughts Oro and Don Jose. Mightn't be quartz though. Rogue currents come in a lot of sizes, shapes and environments. They're the reason anyone using electrically activated blasting caps puckers up every time he has to connect those two wires up there close to ground zero no matter how many times he's done it before.

Probably a way of testing for rogue currents in the area BBs describing would be by using an inexpensive volt meter for a few continuity checks by poking the leads into the ground a few feet apart. A simple home-made MWR tester and an old CB SWR meter might also provide some additional data to help nail things down.

Just musing
Jack

 

[Oroblanco]

HOLA again - just want to emphasize my previous post was NOT all-exclusive or -inclusive, only one possible idea. Like Jack (Highmountain) said, even IF these effects are a result of a large electrical charge (or a small electrical charge) there are many possible sources of the electricity. You can detect large potentials even in clouds passing overhead (the source of some lightning strikes) or flowing water under the soil. You can build up a massive charge simply by walking while wearing wool clothing for that matter, if the humidity is low. The quartz is only one possibility out of many, however if I had such experiences in some particular place, I would certainly be curious as to the causes and definitely want to check it out.
Oroblanco

 

[the blindbowman]

its funny you said that ... i found crystalls like the one sample that were as big as a basket ball or a human skull i shined a light in that vien it looked like the hevens below thousand of silican crystal as far as i could see down into the vein more then a few hunderd feet deep then the caverna opened in to a black darkness . i was going to tie a sinker on a fish line and see how deep it was ....i droped a rock crystal down the vein and never herd it hit bottom ...i was over the hole at lest 5 mintues ..how far will a 5 size marble fall in 5 mintues ...?

 

[Highmountain]

its funny you said that ... i found crystalls like the one sample that were as big as a basket ball or a human skull i shined a light in that vien it looked like the hevens below thousand of silican crystal as far as i could see down into the vein more then a few hunderd feet deep then the caverna opened in to a black darkness . i was going to tie a sinker on a fish line and see how deep it was ....i droped a rock crystal down the vein and never herd it hit bottom ...i was over the hole at lest 5 mintues ..how far will a 5 size marble fall in 5 mintues ...?

Might want to add a 200,000 candlepower spotlight to your toolbox along with what Oro and Jose suggested.

Jack

 

[Oroblanco]

Well off the top of mi head, I get 9632 feet, but that does not seem right and does not take into account terminal velocity (when air resistance reaches the level that no further increase in speed occurs).
Oroblanco

 

[the blindbowman]

2 million ,, i got one for caveing ...lol

 

[Kentucky Kache]

I think quartz has to be compressed and decompressed to release it's electrical charge, but I could be wrong. Of course, things could be moving just enough, who knows.

 

[the blindbowman]

shape of the object vs frictional force

 

[the blindbowman]

I think quartz has to be compressed and decompressed to release it's electrical charge, but I could be wrong. Of course, things could be moving just enough, who knows.

you may be on to something with that idea . the crystall in that vein face each other and were grown touching each other or growing towards each other the force of the crystalls pressing togather maybe have some effect that dose not normally take place as it dose here at this site ...

 

[Oroblanco]

Cache Crazy wrote:

I think quartz has to be compressed and decompressed to release it's electrical charge

You are correct, this must happen for the electrical charge to be RELEASED, but for the effect on a human to be sensed, the charge need not be released, it can be simply stored - like a battery or capacitor. Then again, it is possible that with the changes of weight in the overlying rock (overburden) due to rains soaking into the ground or drying up, OR due to tectonic upheavals etc the charge could be released. Some have theorized that this is where the so-called "Earth Lights" originate, like for example the Lubbock Lights in Texas.

Blindbowman you are a Spelunker? You never mentioned this before; if you are 'into' exploring caverns, our Black Hills have some huge ones that have never been fully explored or mapped. Just a side note.
Oroblanco

 

[the blindbowman]

dose this vein have bigger crystalls down deeper . could this be where the crystal skulls came from ...? look at how the crystal reacts to the camera flash ...the same way they said the crystal skulls do ..? i found crystals the size of my fist in the vein and one crystal bigger then a humans head in one of the caves ...

 

[the blindbowman]

i could work the vein by hand and harvest these crystalls but look at what they are ...will they ever be more beautful then they are free looking up at me ...they look like goose eggs made of ice

 

[Oroblanco]

HOLA amigos,
Blindbowman are you saying that there are quartz crystals the size of your fist and larger? The only reason I ask is that (generally) the size of the crystals is often directly related to the depth at which they were formed. Tiny crystals near the surface, huge crystals at great depth; not a RULE of course but another "clue".
Oroblanco

 

[Old Dog]

Blindbowman wrote...
is it the black spots or is it the ball feild it self ....think about what i am saying .. if this was the oldest ball court it may have been Aztec and the game could have changed when the mayan played the game at their own sites .. suporting the fact the chicomoztoc is where the game begain and with a whole diffrent set of rules ...maybe the 3 day runs by the AZtec player was training for the game...if i was right the ball court would be coverd with these tocsin ....unlike some tocsin these would take thousands of year to vade away ...

and most likely those players had built up a amuity we just dont have ....this may not be the only answer but its a good logical place to start ...

i well add at this point , that one of te black colorerd people in the seven caves codex is holding a golden bell ...if this is were the black powder came from maybe this is why those bells were coverd in black .. maybe the black on the bells was this type of pioson to protect them from others takeing them .. how far could they get when handleing a piosonous bell ...lol it makes sence ... good logic ,,,..............


BB

Did you smell a vegetable like smell when this affected you?
Did you loose weight when you returned home?

There is reason for my asking and it is arsenic related.

An old horse trader's trick (as well Oro Knows) is to dose a horse with a small amount of arsenic and then trade the animal as it looks in perfect health,
Come back a week later and offer to buy it back, as it now looks in very poor condition.

What I am saying is that there is a distinct set of symptoms related to arsenic poisoning.
one easily recognised is the smell an arsenic pocket gives off. An unmistakable one.
This smell will be evident to others on the breath of the poisoned person.
Or in the air of the poisoned area.
and the other is the affect of the poison on the body if ingested or absorbed in the skin.
distinct dramatic weight loss and weakness.

Something to consider.

Thom

 

[Old Dog]

BB
Arsenic smells like Garlic.
Cyanide smells like almonds