After 25 years, Im finally seeking outside help with this one.

[Real de Tayopa Tropical Tramp]

Re: After 25 years, I'm finally seeking outside help with this one.

HI: Just a few bits of stray thoughts.

Why would Fench and Spanish be combined in/on the rock ?

Why would the letter/no. engraving be so sharp, yet the holes, etc. so weathered if made at the same time?

The so called direction line on the"5" is common on both 5's?

Interestng , as I understand it, the depresion is roughly that distance from the rock?

Pacing in that type of brush is difficult, how did they measure it, if in fact they did?

If It iis indeed a survey rock, there have to be companions ??

If a survey rock, there must be records of the survey, perhap not exactly where the rock is, but certainly of the program and area?

I have lot's of other questions, but this wlll do for now.

Remember, one can get lost in a forest of signs if one is not careful.

Till Eulenspiegle de La Mancha

 

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[Stroover]

Re: After 25 years, I'm finally seeking outside help with this one.

Tayopa,
I don't think spaniards are involved.

Personally, I don't think the holes were made at the same time as the engraving, therefore not by the same person/people either, but what do I know?

About the 5's, I hadn't given it much thought. To me, they just looked like one person's way of making a five. Interesting...

The 3rd depression (the furthest one away from the rock) is about 1.5 Km from the rock to the north, according to my gps. The layout of the 3 depressions we found closely match the upper left 3 holes on the rock, which leads me to believe there may be 4 more depressions further, since there are 4 more holes on the rock.

There are no companion rocks that we could find, and there are absolutely no records anywhere in town, nor the neighboring towns about any land plots there at all. As far as they know, nobody has ever surveyed the area, nor has anybody ever lived there.

 

[Stroover]

Re: After 25 years, I'm finally seeking outside help with this one.

Hey Dowser, could this be the place with the death trap? It's not far at all from the stone with the message. I walked right by it the last time and didn't even notice, but thanks to you guys I was more perceptive this time around. I tried to go closer for a better shot of the boulder with a tiny rock holding it back, but as I was climbing up, what I thought was a nice big steady rock I was standing on started to move and wanted to slide, so I jumped off in case it would trigger the boulder (no less then 2 tons) from falling on me.

Notice the circle below the overhanging boulder. I had found a much smaller rock (about 20 lbs, maybe more) on the beach with a circle on it about 1 Km away to the north with the "eye" looking towards the south-east. Out of a hunch, I decided to concentrate in that direction. Sure enough, I ended up where the possible "death trap" is. Assuming this ISthe spot, does anybody have any ideas as to how I could gain access? Remember, no heavy machinery nor explosives are allowed, lest I bring attention to myself on national parks land.

It was a nice Sunday morning. My wife and daughter had plans for the day, leaving me with the whole day to do whatever. I checked the tides, and lo-and-behold If I left right then to head for the site, I would be able to cross as I got there as the tide would be receeding, and I'd have just enough time to snoop around looking for this death trap and be back before high tide. I found it almost as soon as I got there, thanks to you folks' input.

 

[Stroover]

Re: After 25 years, I'm finally seeking outside help with this one.

Here's a pic of the over-hanging boulder with the "circle" beneath. Doesn't it kind of look like a collapsed cave a little to the right, with all the rocks laying around? Think I'm too late? But then again, to the left of the circle seems to be a way to get inside a crawl space, but I didn't want to get too close because of the over hanging boulder.

 

[Stroover]

Re: After 25 years, I'm finally seeking outside help with this one.

the "eye on the beach"

 

[Stroover]

Re: After 25 years, I'm finally seeking outside help with this one.

And finally, the best close-up I could get of the possible trigger.

 

[dowser 501]

Re: After 25 years, I'm finally seeking outside help with this one.

Ok, I got it.All those rocks are pointing to the greenery on the right and are companion markers. All those rocks that have points on them pointing to the right. If they arent jesuit companion rocks Ill go he. There will be a deposit in the ground down below in the greenery.
If you want to contact me privately, I will point you in the direction of a 2 ton posthole deposit of jesuit gold.
Get a rope and set off that trap, I would not be digging to the right under them. All those rocks are companion rocks to an underround deposit.
I did a similar dig to the one I will be encouraging you to do only yesterday.I am trying to get a tv station interested in it. Using a steel probe I uncovered a Jesuit dig. It was marked just under the surface with a red gum artifact in the shape of a lacrosse type bat with a circled piece of red gum as the ball. Went down 3 feet with 3 quarter rotten logs lining a shaft. A lot of the jesuits prided themselves on their artistic talents.
At the 5 foot 6inch mark there was a twisted lump of red gum 3inches across facing upwards carved into the shape of a heart, which means , "gold here".Nough today.

 

[Stroover]

Re: After 25 years, I'm finally seeking outside help with this one.

15 paces north from this spot...5 west as the sun sets
NATF

How did you come up with that? The only way I can be there as the sun sets is if I can manage to sneak a tent there and can spend the night, because by then the tide will be at it's peak (up to 50 feet high) and my peninsula will be an island untill dawn. Before I attempt risking getting in trouble with the feds by camping in an unauthorized place, I'd like to know how you came up with that. Convince me, and I probably more then likely WILL spend the night there.

 

[gollum]

Re: After 25 years, I'm finally seeking outside help with this one.

I think he got it from from the 1505 on the other rock. Not likely to have anything to do with this pile.

 

[dowser 501]

Re: After 25 years, I'm finally seeking outside help with this one.

he was talking unsubstantiated rubbish. I think your position at this site is too precarious to continue.
What we are looking at is a major excavation as the depth to the gold is deep, and then they turned sideways so that the gold is no longer below the near surface marker, which makes the dig wider from the surface And you are not exactly miles from the law at this site < by the sound of it. THere is a death trap at every dig. In this one when digging they will try to get you to dig downwards at an angle, then the hidden weights overhead will collapse the tunnel. You have neither the privacy nor the experience to continue this dig.I am saving you a lot of hassels. THere are countless thousands of these caches throughout the Americas and the entire pacific region, and most are still there. centuries of intensive mining is hidden in Post hole deposits and blown up caves .
99% of caves in the Pacific and the coast lines of Australia, New Zealand, the Philippines, minor islands and the california coastline have blown up cave entrances dezigned to hide the fact that caves ever existed in that area.
I am not going to tell you how to enter this cache as firstly I will never get paid, and secondly I dont want to be responsible for your death. I have had 3 lots of partners who swore on their mothers graves or equivelent that my share was forthcoming . They all vanished . THeir names even vanished. Phones, adresses, internet, mail , all disappeared. You are playing with live hand grenades.

 

[Stroover]

Re: After 25 years, I'm finally seeking outside help with this one.

Well, if I die, at least I will have died trying. It took me 24 years to just find this rock, and in just one year I've done so much progress, especially thanks to you folks here. I'm not just going to quit now. No siree! Next plan of action is to tie a rope around the little rock, stand way back, give a good "yank!" to dislodge the pebble and see what happens next. If the boulder comes a tumbling down, then I'll work this spot for a while longer. If not, then keep looking and testing more theories. Something interesting I stumbled on, yet seems far-fetched, is that in 1821 Jean Lafitte burned down his house in Galveston, Texas, took his treasure with him, and sailed away never to be heard of again (a year before the date on the rock). It's not impossible that he sailed here and hid his hoarde. That would explain the French writing AND the Spanish-style holes and death-trap(s). I'm also trying to establish a link with this area to Louis-Michel Aury (anothe French pirate who would have had contact with the Spanish). I can't take all the credit for these new ideas, as Gollum and RealdeTayopa have inserted new sparks to my fire. Thanks guys!

 

[gollum]

Re: After 25 years, I'm finally seeking outside help with this one.

Thanks Stroover,

I would say even if the big rock doesnt come down when you yank the small rock, I would recommend getting some assistance and bringing it down no matter what! Death Trap or not, it looks like a great (not great wonderful, but great enormous) hazard to work under or around! Try to bring it down so it doesnt destroy any other rocks or clues. Ropes and wrecking bars work well for redirecting rockfalls.

Also, look over the big rock very carefully, and take pictures. When it comes down, it will likely break up in pieces. If there are any clues on it, they will be gone forever.

Mike

 

[Stroover]

Re: After 25 years, I'm finally seeking outside help with this one.

I think it's Jean Laffite's doing, guys!
There seems to be three theories as to what happened to Captain Laffite as the events unfolded in Galveston, 1821: One says he died in a fierce battle on sea; another claims he settled in the Yucatan Peninsula; but then I found information suggesting that he may have faked his death in 1821 and settled in the Carolinas under a new identity. That's only a day or two away as the ship sails from my site, straight up the coast and directly into the bay. At the time he dissapeared off the face of the earth, he had a WHOLE lot of treasure with him, more then enough to live comfortably in his new life. If I were in that situation, I would have hidden a big chunk of change some distance away for the future, and would have probably never needed it and would still be there after I died. As it turns out, he ended up dying of pneumonia only a few years after that, so he probably never DID have the chance to go back to the treasure site.
Only problem is, I don't think he could have done it all by himself. He would have needed help from somebody. But WHO? Local folklore has lots of pirate stories, so maybe he and his band of corsaires may have all headed up here, however under a new identity I don't think it would have been wise to have had his pirates with him. Maybe slaves? He DID steal a load of slaves while still in Texas, and there just so happens to be a lake not very far away from the site called "Lac Negro", though nobody seems to know why it's called that (as a historian, one tends to notice these subtle clues when on a quest).

If anybody knows of information about Jean Laffite (sometimes spelled "Lafitte") in the days after the Galveston incident, please let me know.
I think one thing I should do is to get my hands on his memoirs. I beleive they're available in a book. There ought to be some more clues in there...

 

[dowser 501]

Re: After 25 years, I'm finally seeking outside help with this one.

I think you are barking up the wrong tree. That pile of pointed rocks are 100% jesuit, and so is the baited trap. I have seen many similar, although no two pile of rocks or a single turtleback were ever constructed the same.
They weren't allowed to.

 

[gollum]

Re: After 25 years, I'm finally seeking outside help with this one.

I think you are barking up the wrong tree. That pile of pointed rocks are 100% Jesuit, and so is the baited trap. I have seen many similar, although no two pile of rocks or a single turtleback were ever constructed the same.
They weren't allowed to.

Actually, Spanish Turtle construction was almost exactly the same every time, depending on the available rocks. Same with rockpiles (actually monument piles to be exact). In the 1750s, King Philip V of Spain decreed that all map markers, trail markers, and monuments were to be standardized. In order for the King to grant a mining permit to someone, they had to agree to give the King a minimum 20% (Called the Royal Quint or 1/5th) of all profits realized from the permitted expedition (whether mining or treasure hunting). Part of this agreement was that miners would make exact maps to the locations of the mines, and treasure hunting expeditions would make maps all along their treks. When they cached any found treasure, they had to leave very specific signs and symbols, as did the miners on both the in and out trails to every mine/cache. All of these maps were required to be filed in one of four places; Santa Fe, NM / Mexico City, Mex / Acapulco, Mex / Madrid, Spain.

The King did all this for two reasons:

1. So the king could send emissaries on surprise inspections to verify that the map directions and monuments built actually led to the mine/cache.

2. So if the mining party or treasure hunting expedition were killed by Indians or disease, the King could send the next group to follow in the footsteps of the previous one.

These were done for one reason only: To make sure the king got his fifth of everything exploited in the New World!

Unless you find a carving of a heart with thorns wrapped around it and flame above, there is no way to guarantee this is Jesuit. If you find something that just screams Jesuit, PM me. I have a contact (who has been helping me while researching another hoard) in the Jesuit Archives in Rome. Really nice guy. An American working in Italy. He got me intros to the Archive Secretary of the Vatican, and of another Group in Rome who keep the old records of most Church activities worldwide (Used to be called the Propaganda Vide, it has a much longer name now).

The only time symbols and markers weren't standardized was after Mexico won it's independence from Spain. After that, there was really no way to keep track. Even then, the Mexican Miners still used basically the same signs/symbols, because it was what they knew. There were some exceptions though, but not many.

Another thing to remember is that Charles III kicked the Jesuits out of the New World in 1767 and did not let them back in until the mid 1800's.


Good luck-Mike

 

[tammahawk]

Re: After 25 years, I'm finally seeking outside help with this one.

I must say out of all the rocks ive seen on sites and the forums these by far are the oddest rocks ive seen, I recognize the format but these are harder to recognize than most, definatley north eastern rock, signs are there, good luck tammahawk

 

[Vrent]

Re: After 25 years, I'm finally seeking outside help with this one.

just a thought but didn't surveyers back then use the measurement of rods?

 

[Stroover]

Re: After 25 years, I'm finally seeking outside help with this one.

just a thought but didn't surveyers back then use the measurement of rods?

They did, but there are no records of surveying ever done there (I checked). Anyway, the area of interest is now the site with the possible death trap.

 

[cavers5]

Re: After 25 years, I'm finally seeking outside help with this one.

Just thought it coincidental that 1505 mille(s) in French = 1822 US miles.

Cavers

 

[Martin(Hull)]

Re: After 25 years, I'm finally seeking outside help with this one.

Any news on this? Very interesting.