New Mexico Symbols

[Oroblanco]

Thank you RGINN! That is certainly an interesting glyph! I am 99.9% sure it is not Spanish, much older in fact. It looks rather like a modified 'kaph' or more likely a 'rebus' - several letters connected; in particular "gimel, kaph" (written right-to-left) or possibly "pe, kaph". I don't have my dictionary handy but will look this up and post what I find as for what it means. The long line at the end of the "kaph" could be a directional arrow.

The fact that this site is in NM is also very intriguing (for me) as it is in New Mexico that the Los Lunas Dekalogue was found.
<photo from Wiki, I have not yet visited this extremely interesting site but plan to soon>

If you examine the letters on the Los Lunas stone, you may see other symbols which match with glyphs at your rock shelter site. I am very intrigued with your discovery amigo, <my congratulations and compliments by the way> and I look forward to any other info or photos you may share with us.

I too share your respect for Gloria Farley, and envy that you were able to meet her in person; I know that Dr Fell made many mistakes but in his defense, at least he was willing to look at the ancient inscriptions found in America with an open mind and started to make the connections. I think he would have had better luck in his decipherments if he had access to a Phoenician dictionary instead of using the Arabic which is similar but has many differences. I have to admit that I have a particular 'vested' interest in inscription finds like yours, as I have been working on a book for over eight years on ancient visitors coming to America; the evidence IS out there, but the historians and archaeologists simply are not willing to investigate or research them. I wrote a chapter for a book of 'alternative histories' that came out a few years ago, but am always on the lookout for new finds like what you have.

Thank you again for sharing amigo, I really do appreciate it and I will get back to you with a translation on that glyph.
sign me 'jealous'
Roy ~ Oroblanco

 

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[Oroblanco]

OK - here is what I have;

Phoenician writing is consonants only, so very often it is possible to read a sentence or word in more than one way, so you have to take the context of the writing into account. Also, if it is Punic rather than Phoenician, the letters are much more 'sloppy' and have many variants so I must beg your indulgence.

If the letters are "G"<gimel>, "K" <kaph> and a long line, it could be an abbreviation for "Gebal Kai" which could mean "territory here".

It is likely they are an abbreviation since there is no Phoenician word spelled "G K" or at least none I can find, or they are two separate words.

If the letters are "P" <pe> "K" it could be "permission" "here"

If that first letter is an "N" <nun> (also possible, if it is a rebus sort of construction) the glyph could mean "serpent" "here"

That long line has me puzzled. The "K" has several possible meanings, the most obvious one "here" but also it could be "because" or "that" or as a part, representative, introducing an independent <non-subordinate> clause. I picked "here" because it seems to make sense in that way, the other possible meanings make less sense and it clearly is not leading to an independent sentence following it.

I could be completely wrong and it is an Amerindian symbol for geese flying or something else, but in light of the other interesting and ancient markings, I would not be the least surprised if there were a truly ancient cache of treasure or a silver or gold mine close by. There are most probably more inscriptions around that site, perhaps butchered by later visitors or vandals.

One more thing, those strange 'hash marks' that seem to resemble Ogam, may be Phoenician numbers. <Side note here but it would not be the least surprising to find evidence of Celts in the same location as Phoenicians, as they were on very good terms for centuries and held basically identical religious beliefs; even their languages are quite similar> My friend George Khalaf has some excellent articles online that you may find interesting, here is a chart from his site (http://www.phoenicia.org) that shows the Phoenician numbers and the script notation for them; all Phoenician numbers are written right-to-left, and work similar to Roman numerals.

http://phoenicia.org/imgs/phoenumbering.jpg <sorry, tried to post the chart but it didn't work.>

I noticed some "H"s on that bluish boulder in the rock shelter, if those hash marks are numbers you have the key to find what they concealed. Some great Phoenician and Carthaginian treasures have been found in the last century, you might have something incredible there amigo.

Thank you again, I look forward to your posts.
Roy

 

[Old Dog]

Thanks Roy,
As always, enlightening.

Thom

 

[Oroblanco]

Thank YOU amigo - and I do not disagree about the Spanish connections either, in fact RGINN's site looks to me as if it has been used repeatedly over the centuries, which only makes sense if you think about it for gold and silver were what those ancient visitors were after, likewise the Spaniards. I also am not saying those strange marks are NOT Ogam either, just that it is possible they could be numbers; I am no expert but find this a fascinating discovery.
Roy

 

[Old Dog]

When given a closer picture I must back away from the ogam idea.
They look too much like modern graffiti.
However...I will stand firm on the Spanish interp.
LOL
Gotta be sure about the ones you do know, Right?
Stay safe my friend,
Keep your treasures in sight.

 

[Oroblanco]

PS - in view of the possibilities, I am even wondering about that "Jesse James" glyph; it has been ID-ed by other treasure hunters as a signature of Jesse James, but it looks mighty old to me, and it looks very much like an ancient anchor symbol; I could not find a good image to post so you can see what I am talking about, but here is one example

<an ancient Greek coin, unfortunately the top part of the anchor was off the coin>

...which suggests that other longish mark beside it could be a "sword" or "dagger" and these would be marks of ownership if they are from ancient visitors from across the ocean; I wonder if there could be a symbol close by which would identify the place of origin of the people who left those strange symbols; eg a swan for Tyre, a fish for Sidon, a horse for Carthage etc.

Old Dog wrote

When given a closer picture I must back away from the ogam idea.
They look too much like modern graffiti.

Not sure I will agree on that point just yet, as you know there are several different types of Ogam, I sure am no expert in Ogam inscriptions at all so want to withhold judgement for now. I have to agree on the Spanish.
Roy

 

[Old Dog]

Here is the newer picture of the slashes I thought were ogam.
With all the old and new graffiti I am at a loss as to their possible origins.

 

[rangler]

Oro Roy you said...
PS - in view of the possibilities, I am even wondering about that "Jesse James" glyph; it has been ID-ed by other treasure hunters as a signature of Jesse James, but it looks mighty old to me, and it looks very much like an ancient anchor symbol

I tend to agree, found this mark in the supers, actually my nephew and his eagle eye spotted it, its exactly as this one, I first saw the Ship motif and thought it clever, as it might contain an anagram or monogram something to aid the understanding...and i saw the two J's and was actually trying to see if Jacob Walsh might have done this..it has the J and W monogram. Now I too see the ancientness of the mark, (the actual face of the stone) the one we found was much later in time, that is why I thought of Walsh.
a great mystery glyph that I hope we can confirm the solution to.
rangler

 

[Oroblanco]

Thom I see what you mean; it is a 'maze' of modern to ancient graffiti, it would take a lot of time to sort out what is OLD, what is kind of old, and what was put there a week ago. Those 'hash marks' will work as numbers, or may be Ogam I sure don't know but hope that our amigo RGINN is going to find out the truth and will keep us posted.

Rangler - wow that is strange to find that "JJ" mark in the Superstitions. It could be Jesse James, it could be an ancient anchor symbol - I think that other inscriptions will help to determine the truth. If they are ancient, there is good reason to think there could be caches of precious metals nearby, likewise if they are put there by Jesse James himself his record of robberies and loot means things are promising indeed! I would definitely want to do some extra searching around that mark amigo, probably you already have done so but it would sure get my attention if I found it.
Roy

 

[Springfield]

.... Rangler - wow that is strange to find that "JJ" mark in the Superstitions. It could be Jesse James, it could be an ancient anchor symbol - I think that other inscriptions will help to determine the truth. If they are ancient, there is good reason to think there could be caches of precious metals nearby, likewise if they are put there by Jesse James himself his record of robberies and loot means things are promising indeed! I would definitely want to do some extra searching around that mark amigo, probably you already have done so but it would sure get my attention if I found it.
Roy

You will have to accept an 'alternative history' approach to place James et al in Arizona and New Mexico subsequent to his casket going into the ground in Missouri in '82. Of course, if it wasn't Jesse in the box, it would be an easier pill to swallow. Jesse may have been no stranger to the anchor, thus the similar signature.

 

[RGINN]

Thanks for all the info and responses. I have been to the Heavener Runestone and looked at that. I have been to Picture Canyon and climbed up in that rock shelter and took pics of that 5 foot long marking that could be Ogam writing. I do not think the hash marks in my pic are Ogam writing. There's no stem line. They are very old. Some of the markings are dated, so you can compare the weathering. Pacheco marked the rock in the 1880's (I have a better pic and an actual rubbing somewhere that show's the date) and the hash marks appear much older. Oroblanco, you can have my pic. Also, I have a post somewhere on Tnet (probably on the daily photo forum) with pics you might want to look at. You get the book done, I hope I can get a copy.

 

[Oroblanco]

Thank you amigo and definitely yes, you will get a copy!
Roy ~ Oroblanco

 

[dsty]

WOW that's some kinda carvings, didn't really have time to look at all the post but I've seen a T C quite a few times 23 X10 = 230 cm = 7 ft 7 inches, also fits the Royal measurements very well if you use the right combination, I like the fact that the T C ( if thats what it is ) is concealed.

 

[Oroblanco]

Hola amigos,
That 'anchor' or 'Jesse James' signature has me wondering if it may not be a depiction of a ship? Also, there seems to be a gladius (sword) right beside it; I have highlighted the features on RGINN's photo here


If that is a ship, then the 'T' part of the symbol represents the main mast and the cross part the main beam on which the sail would be hung; the curled ends of the ship itself would be very much as ancient ships were built.
Roy

 

[emtrescue]

Not really wanting to hijack this thread, but since Oro' brought up the Ogham - I was wondering what is your thoughts on instead of the "Ogham" found in America, what about the alternative of Ancient Igbo writing?


Just curious.

 

[Oroblanco]

Hola amigo,
I am not familiar with Igbo writing, could you suggest a source for more information? I know there are several different types of Ogam, including one of dots, but this is the first mention I have seen of Igbo. Thank you in advance,
Oroblanco

 

[emtrescue]

I hadn't heard of it until lately myself. One day during my search for the end of the internet - I stumbled across it a little but didn't pay much attention to it. Then I saw a television show and they were discussing the Ogam in America. They were using Igbo translation on some of Dr. Fell's sites, showing how using this script there were no blanks or unknowns and it was a more "seamless" translation - so to speak.

From what I gathered Igbo was the original and Irish Ogam was based off of it. In a nutshell.

Here's a couple of links, but just google Ogam and Igbo in the same search and quite a bit comes up.


http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&sour...sg=AFQjCNHCmslOaO6DoBqGUEpo5JKAPXfK5A&cad=rja


http://www.carcafriculture.org/articles.htm


http://allafrica.com/stories/200909070599.html


Interesting thoughts, which if you remember some stuff I sent you a few years ago about the "pygmie skulls" found - it's in Fell's book America B.C somewhere - (Irish lore is the druids were Black African Dwarfs) I just wonder if there could be a connection.

Edited part:
The translation portion of this is what they were saying is off. Instead of using the "Basque" translation they were saying if it was translated using a type of "Kwa" language it seemed to translate more smoothly so to speak.

 

[Oroblanco]

Wow - thank you!

 

[okey dokey]

emtrescue,
Thanks for the links. Greatly appreciated.
Okey dokey

 

[rangler]

Oro Roy
One more tiny piece of the puzzle..
just last week I saw on History channel that Arizona was part of the Confederacy!
perhaps this explains how JJ's mark (if that is what it is) ended up in the Supers!

Maybe he knew enough of the old signs to be looking for some Spanish caches or
he knew this was a wild enough place to hide some goodies for the South. Of course
their were lots of current mining in the area perhaps he was thereto 'liberate' some goodies
from others?
rangler


"A Riddle Wrapped in a Mystery Inside an Enigma"....... Winston S. Churchill, October 1, 1939