Faces

[emtrescue]

OD - yeah I seen that, but thought it was pointed out for some odd reason.... Thanks SS the whole thing reminds me of a Gorilla for some odd reason dunno.

Anywhoo - On the little turtle that OD pointed out - question/comment - Is there a significance of why he is under the rocks? And here's my take on it (just a S.W.A.G.) The turtle is under the rock telling you to get under the overhang - which looks like it might be used to for some shelter - I cant tell how big it actually is. The "Owl" next to it needs to be inspected further, imo. Looks like I can see a backwards seven on it also, plus some other marks. Hard to tell at this resolution. (BTW - when any of you take pictures, if you are able shoot them in the RAW format then convert them. It leaves all the data in the file. ".jpg" uses compression and you lose data. You won't post them raw, but it helps if you need to go back later and look at them more closely. Also it helps in editing software so it's a more "true" view so to speak) And while we're on turtles - the other yellow circle looks like a turtle poking his head out of the water.

The pinkish squares just look odd to me. The left looks like it's been carved on the rock and the right one looks like a hole behind what's fell off. Could just be the shadows though. Unable to tell.

Like I said these are questions - not statements.

 

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[Old Dog]

After digging through the notes I have of the area, the notes that stand out regarding this trail will take you to the other side of this small canyon which is where the turtle looks. Markers will indicate the trail continues to the current left.

 

[Shortstack]

emt:
That broken heart just under the lower left corner of the yellow box, could be telling folks
that there's nothing left under the ledge.
Just a muse. (guess, LOL)

 

[hadji009]

the center purple square looks like a chair to set and look at what the turtle is leading you to.

 

[desertmoons]

Treasurefinder..was the poodle facing the trail at right angles like looking across the trail? Seen one..or two like that. One a complete dog laying down...on a trail to a mine.

That one was on the right side of the trail going toward the mine.
The other just a head carved into a rock.

 

[Ph17]

Sorry about any delays on my part, but I do not have the internet.

S/S - It's not very close to Segundo, about 140 miles to there.

OD - Toward the left would be to the northeast. Across the canyon I believe the little turtle may be looking torwards (see below).

Entrescue - I have been shrinking the photos to try and meet file size requirements for this site, what process would you recommend? Also a note that the pics below are from roughly 200 - 250 yards away from me, and the zoomed pics are maybe 250 - 300. I don't have anything up close at the moment.

 

[CanadianTrout]

........Then there are the turtle monuments, usually when the treasure was gone
they would remove the head from the turtle. The reason is that the
monuments were there so that the king could get his royal fifth and once
the treasure or stash from the mine was gone, they wouldn't waste time
on it anymore. In this case the turtle still has his head.
Rich

This is one of the main reasons I don't post here anymore. I still hang around and read ALL the posts almost everyday. But I stopped getting involved. I found the format and flow of information / misinformation so convoluted and coming from so many sources and perspectives as to be down right confusing and contradictory.

The above quote is a prime example. (Sorry not picking on you specifically Treasure Finder)

I had been led to believe (somehow, probably read it here) the same thing about removed turtle heads. Then out of nowhere I was corrected by a member of these boards that I respect. I was told in no uncertain terms that that information was incorrect.

So.... which is it?

<frustrated>

 

[rangler]

ss,
Not sure where you read this...

" open mouth means the goods are gone"
this is NOT true, someone was incorrect in that interpretation
of the that sign...it simply means 'opening' 'entrance' (implied meaning...your getting close)
...just as Old Dog stated...lots of innocent mis-diagnoses and some purposeful mis-information!
caution is advised!

emt stated..".That broken heart just under the lower left corner of the yellow box, could be telling folks that there's nothing left under the ledge.
Just a muse. (guess, LOL)" ( not picking you you emt, just saying what is right for the forum and its members.)

AGAIN not true at all..a tiny bit of reading and mandatory research is required before you 'muse'
I could easily tell you what it means..but IF you do the research and tell us all what it means...then we will forgive you for your....musing in public lol

Just a suggestion, instead of guessing and musing, why not just ask the question? None of us knows it all, Lord knows I don't, but collectively you will find that we can answer almost any question that comes up about signs..so heads up please.

Oh and just to confirm what else Thom said, not withstanding overt vandalism, the Spanish did not knock the heads off of turtles to tell anyone that the goods were gone..they WERE the Kings men, and NO one else was supposed to be anywhere near these monuments.

However later in the 18th Century, many other countries had lots of explorers trying to 'cold trail' the Spanish to their mines and caches, and the Spanish started using 'decoy' omega monuments..making it look like the goods had been taken..this was a ruse..I believe that the missing turtle heads where part of their strategy to fool the neophyte Argonaut.

rangler

 

[Lost Horse]

"Sorry its never a waste of time"
There is only so much you can see with one photo
But these areas of interest need more investigation
Take more photos from different times of day and angles
You mite find more markers - look for really small ones
The small ones are the ones done in Shadow form
and are the ones that will tell you that you are there

Lager Owl - This is a Large Range Marker this is the First Marker to be seen from far away
Stating that there is information to be found in this area

Possible Small Owl - meaning look for more detailed information

Bell - Showing ownership "The Church"

Eye Catcher Triangle pointer - Showing the direction where to look

The # 3 - Meaning Gold and or Treasure

Turtle inside of the Triangle
This marker is used as a double marker,
From far away you will see the shadowed Triangle with the highlighted rock in the middle
As you get closer you will see the Turtle inside of the Triangle
The two together is conformation of a Treasure site near by
Both having the same meaning - Mine or Vault

From This photo the area does not look like a Mining Area, unless there is one close by
From the photo it looks like the area mite be a Vault that is used along the Kings Trails

Lost Horse

 

[hadji009]

open mouth guy?gettn closer?

 

[CanadianTrout]

LOST HORSE!!

I have been wondering where you went. I always GREATLY enjoyed your posts and stories/explanations that went with them. Amazing stuff!! Glad to see you posting again. Can we expect some more awesome pic threads from you?


Also, thanks guys for clearing up the turtle head thing.

 

[Lost Horse]

Hi Canadian Trout
There are no computers in the field and along the Kings Trail
Took advantage of the summer months
There is lots of data to process and photos to put together
Will do this during the winter months
Stay tuned in,
Lost Horse

 

[CanadianTrout]

Sweeeeet!

 

[Shortstack]

ss,
Not sure where you read this...

" open mouth means the goods are gone"
this is NOT true, someone was incorrect in that interpretation
of the that sign...it simply means 'opening' 'entrance' (implied meaning...your getting close)
...just as Old Dog stated...lots of innocent mis-diagnoses and some purposeful mis-information!
caution is advised!

emt stated..".That broken heart just under the lower left corner of the yellow box, could be telling folks that there's nothing left under the ledge.
Just a muse. (guess, LOL)" ( not picking you you emt, just saying what is right for the forum and its members.)

AGAIN not true at all..a tiny bit of reading and mandatory research is required before you 'muse'
I could easily tell you what it means..but IF you do the research and tell us all what it means...then we will forgive you for your....musing in public lol

Just a suggestion, instead of guessing and musing, why not just ask the question? None of us knows it all, Lord knows I don't, but collectively you will find that we can answer almost any question that comes up about signs..so heads up please.

Oh and just to confirm what else Thom said, not withstanding overt vandalism, the Spanish did not knock the heads off of turtles to tell anyone that the goods were gone..they WERE the Kings men, and NO one else was supposed to be anywhere near these monuments.

However later in the 18th Century, many other countries had lots of explorers trying to 'cold trail' the Spanish to their mines and caches, and the Spanish started using 'decoy' omega monuments..making it look like the goods had been taken..this was a ruse..I believe that the missing turtle heads where part of their strategy to fool the neophyte Argonaut.

rangler

First, and more important, emt was NOT the person who posted the broken heart muse......I did, in post #42. And if you'll notice, I used the words "could be", muse, and guess in the statement to make sure my comment would not be taken as gospel, but as a possibility since statements have been posted on this forum that a broken heart could mean an empty hole, a false trail, and in some cases, maybe a death trap.
Second, that comment about the meaning of the opened mouth came because I have also read that the reason for an open mouth on a figure MIGHT mean an empty hole. I, too, at the time I read that wondered why the trail makers would take the time to open the mouth of a trail figure. But, since I was / am a neophite in this stuff, I filed that comment away in my memory and went on. NOW, I can flush that tidbit as BOGUS and go on about my business.
rangler, I must admit that your response is a little bit surprising at it's edgy sound. I could find that comment about the opened mouth, but I won't. Neither I nor the person who originally posted that info was, am, are a troll. We're just people trying to learn.

 

[rangler]

Bill,
I too want to be included among those who are here to learn...I didn't mean it to be 'edgy' nor did I mention the T word! I didn't know your were quoting! in that sentence..my mistake. I always use the 'italics' icon to show quotes, as I "I don't care for the quote box myself "... its a good idea use quote marks or something show that something is being quoted..

I guess what was coming thru between the lines, is the frustration a lot of us are feeling about the accidental and purposeful danger of misinformation , of which you know we have some that are professional at that! I know you are not one of them! , we both know who is....

I am impressed with how your ability has grown to see the things hidden in the photos...however it is better to mark just the signs your are certain of..than to use the shot gun method and mark any and everything that might look like something. No harm intended here, just shooting straight..It is good practice for learning, not for publishing. If you not sure just ask the collective intel that is one this board. that way you and others, including myself get to learn first hand. I am pretty sure that is the ideal way it is supposed to work?

While we are on the subject, again just a friendly suggestion for all who mark what they think is a real sign, please just circle the suspected mark rather than try to outline the entire mark..I learned this when chalking in the field, we all subconsciously 'finish' the mark with the chalk when it isn't quite right. When you see me and Old Dog mark on photos, you will notice that we just circle the item so everyone can see for themselves if it makes sense.

There are good guys and bad guys on this and any forum but you are certainly one of the former
and not the latter!

Just to finish this very touchy subject, we all learn from each other, myself

included, we who have paid the long hard dues to learn this stuff...also have learned empathy and acute learners also are natural instructors...a an old zen saying is..the instructor learns from the student (that is why they teach!) I am more than willing to learn from you and and everyone else on this forum.

Keep up the good work, we all like to see your posts, as a wise old Owl (Dog) here said,just recently.....
"It is good to be more discriminating"
lubdatgoaldenglo!
rangler

 

[Shortstack]

Agreed. And I know what (who?) you mean about false leads and hints. That is why I normally put in words and phrases such as looks like, I think, and muse to let folks know that I am not making a definitive statement. If I feel strongly about seeing a symbol or carving, I will just call it out. On really touchy subjects, I have PMed a person to present an idea for consideration that I have not posted. Again, just a "muse" if you will. Too, if I see a symbol that hasn't been marked, that might be very important, I have PMed the originator to call attention to that and leave it to them if they want to post it. I never know what might be super important and what might NOT be in cases like that; so a low profile is kept.

Question: When a site has a LOT of symbols (obviously manmake) can they be there as part of a hub of trails or mostly as extra eye wash to confuse followers and therefore deserve to be ignored? There have been at least 2 really FULL info stones that have symbols all over them, but only a small percentage were deemed important. The most recent one is the flat stone by a creek that holds an Indian wearing a headress; a TPee with opened flap and a smoking cook fire; hidden symbols in a wide crack off to the right side that are obviously a crooked cross plus more. Yet, everyone ignore the symbols in the crack of the rock and concentrated on the large Indian head and the cook fire, etc. This area of trail following is where I STILL get confused and that's why I mark everything.............just to make sure all marks are revealed.

Cheez, I wish you and Old Dog would get your books finished and printed. I neeeeeeeed the reeeeeeead.

 

[Old Dog]

Bill,
The signs that are there are all seen and acknowledged when we run accross them.
for many reasons they can be ignored. the biggest reasons are first off Redundancy,
The Spanish were huge on redundancy. If a sign along the trail dot lost or destroyed the redundancy kicked in and the trail goes on. Secondly, the presence of many signs and markers may indicate a cache site, if this is the case they would use the sixth marker in line to lead you astray on a false trail. When this is done ...every sixth marker or Monument may be considered a false one.

Keep in mind that the #6 is the unclean or unholy number, the devil's number etc...

Which signs and markers to ignore will come with time and boots on the ground.

 

[tertiaryjim]

Wow! I've been thinking for some time that there are too many markers and signs and if I knew what they really meant it was probably multiple ways to find the trails end. Have thought perhaps some were to misslead but doubted many were for that . So I now have to pull out the relevant information, Direction and Distance, and eliminate the extra sixth sign. Am shure it is easyer said than done . Now, Why do I see blank spots that are perfect realestate for ,and seem to have been prepared for signs ,that are empty ? Seems the trails might change some over time. Rain the last three days here. Hope its dry by next week!

 

[Shortstack]

Thanks, Thom, for that explanation. When I was looking at that site I used as my example, it seemed the larger things might have been put there to distract and the small symbols inside that crack were the leads to something in a canyon. And that crack was the map of the canyon. It seemed to fit pretty well, but apparently I convinced myself of something that wasn't there. Weeell, still learning.

 

[Shortstack]

Speaking of faces.............how about THIS one?