Spanish gold trail markers/monuments pictures

[Twilla]

Heart in the rock could mean that the treasure is buried in one of the rock groupings, under some of those big rocks? Just a thought.

Oh Lord I hope it's not under one of those! We're still working on digging out under the boulder with the cross on it and that's been quite a chore! Thanks for the input and thanks for looking at this stuff for us!

T

 

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[gollum]

Hey T,

I think the cross on the rock in the first pic is natural. I can't say for absolutely certain without seeing it in person, but the lines don't quite match up.

On the other hand, the removeable heart is the first absolute proof of something man made there. There are a few things that look very man made, but again, without seeing them in person, it's hard to tell. The "map rock" and another heart I think also have very good possibilities.

Even though TimRino poopoos everything out of hand, and then makes foolish sweeping statements, he does have a valid point! One that is not thought about by many people. When you find what you think may be a monument or carving, the first thing you want to do (after taking pictures of it), is look at the rest of the rocks around it. do the lines from your carving continue into the surrounding rocks? If so, then you may just have a natural formation. Mother nature can play some mean tricks. She can make some natural things look very man made! This all goes back to a statement I made a long time ago, "Finding real signs and symbols is half science and half art. If you use too much of either, you will either miss some things, or look foolish by seeing signs in everything."


Best,
Mike

 

[Twilla]

Hi Tim,
Actually, your posts were not pulled. I had two threads going with almost the same title and since I already had the pictures that I needed advice on on this post, the one that has gotten me more help than the other, I removed the other thread.
Did you have an opportunity to read the post from Buck? In it he said that nobody had held a gun to my head and forced me to dig here or there, or to post pictures to this thread and that's right. I AM having a wonderful time looking for the next sign or marker and, yes, for treasure. I am exhilerated that these men are taking the time to assist me and teach me along the way. I've learned so much from them and even when I am slow to learn, they continue to be patient and tell me again.
I'm sorry that you mistakenly believed that your posts were pulled or blocked, but, have you ever thought about the old colloquialism about you can draw more flies with honey? If you shared what you know in a more positive light, it would be easier to accept it as an attempt at support. The way you word things, it appears to be only criticism and that's not an easy thing to accept from someone you don't even know. I have no intention of pulling this thread so you will see your posts on here whenever you post them, and I hope to see friendlier posts from you. Have a nice one!

T

 

[Twilla]

Hey T,

I think the cross on the rock in the first pic is natural. I can't say for absolutely certain without seeing it in person, but the lines don't quite match up.

On the other hand, the removeable heart is the first absolute proof of something man made there. There are a few things that look very man made, but again, without seeing them in person, it's hard to tell. The "map rock" and another heart I think also have very good possibilities.

Even though TimRino poopoos everything out of hand, and then makes foolish sweeping statements, he does have a valid point! One that is not thought about by many people. When you find what you think may be a monument or carving, the first thing you want to do (after taking pictures of it), is look at the rest of the rocks around it. do the lines from your carving continue into the surrounding rocks? If so, then you may just have a natural formation. Mother nature can play some mean tricks. She can make some natural things look very man made! This all goes back to a st
satment I made a long time ago, "Finding real signs and symbols is half science and half art. If you use too much of either, you will either miss some things, or look foolish by seeing signs in everything."

And Tim, before you ask for evidence to back up my statement, here it is:

Your quote:

I also can't see a group of people hiding treasure and carving a 1000 ton rock into the shape of a turtle.

Can you tell me what this is?

Would you say this is a natural rock formation? Wrong, Mr MENSA! It is a 30 foot diameter Turtle constructed of a pile of rocks. Proof you ask? The following is the trail you would follow by walking in the direction the turtle is looking.

This trail leads to a gold mine that was found by reading some barely discernable clues. I won't picture the mine, as a friend who found it wishes the actual mine site not to be photographed.

And Tim,
I'll tell you one more thing. I have read every post you have made on TNet. With only a couple of exceptions, you only seem to feebly attempt to flaunt some kind superior intellect. What you display is something far less. Almost every post you made is ridiculing somebody about something. Feeling inadequate about something? Feel the need to deride others to get some self esteem? From your statements, your inexperience on the subject of Colonial Spanish Mining and Monumenting techniques shows. You say that "As far as researching the Spanish in the Southwest you would have to look far and wide to find anyone who has spent more time in the field researching the Spanish in the Douglas, Ajo and Tucson area then I have." That statement is laughable. You are basically talking about the bottom 15 miles or so of the state, along the Mexican Border. I know an Archaeologist who has made a career of the Yuma area alone (15 years), and still finds new things all the time. I don't dispute the fact that you may have done a lot of hiking in the area, but I also know of SEVERAL old timer prospectors that have been living in the desert (desert rats) finding placer gold, and old mines for 40 or 50 years. I don't think anybody would have to look THAT far and wide!

Also, if you have so much more experience than anybody else in that area, why haven't you found the Iron Door Mine? Maybe one of the six still undiscovered Tumacacori Mines? Maybe you could show us some pictures of some of the great things you have found in your traveling experiences? Maybe, since you are so knowledgeable, you could show us where the Aztec Temple near Nogales is? There was a mission (now lost) that was built on top of it in the 1680s. Just a thought. Since you are more knowledgeable about this area than anybody else.


Best,
Mike

Mike,
I wasn't sure about that other possible cross but I needed an expert opinion about it. If I come or go that way again I will take another picture but make it a close up so you can see what you think. The pictures with the heart didn't have the one with the empty space where we took it out of so if you need it, I can RE-send all three of them for comparison. I think if you could see some of these things in person there would be no question as to whether they are man made or not. Of course, the map rock is blatantly obvious that it is man made, but I also believe the bird, the bed, the heart with an egg and the hearts across the canyon are man made. I've attached the one of the rock where the heart was for you.
We have been digging under the map rock for awhile now but with just two women, we don't have the strength to get some of these boulders moved very quickly in order to get to things without a lot of sweat and time. We'll get it though! Again, thank you for your time!

T

 

[Cannonman17]

The turtle looks like a natural formation to me.. then again I only know a little about geology/geography and not hidden spanish treasure.

 

[gollum]

Since it seems that TimRino is no longer with us, I have removed all mention of him from my posts. Sort of like how Tutankhamon's fathers images and references to his name were chiseled off of everything in ancient Egypt.

Mike

 

[Real de Tayopa Tropical Tramp]

HMM however "I AM STILL HERE " break out the Garlic and silver bullets.

Tropical Tramp

 

[Twilla]

Okay guys,
What's your take on the removable heart? And, again, please excuse any typos here as on occassion I can't see what I am typing on this site. Mike, did those pictures of the Mike, did you see anything on that curious rock formation you were interested in? I got pictures all the way around it except I couldn't get to the right side of it for a closeup. If I need to try again I'll see what I can do but I sure couldn'lt promise anuything.
Thank you all for your helpl. We greatly appreciate it!

T

 

[Real de Tayopa Tropical Tramp]

HI Twill love, just something to think about. I wouldn't spend any serious money until you have given the following a bit of thought and investigation.

Notice the parallel faulting and fractures surrounding the heart? Co-incidence?

Also notice the sides of the heart and the heart seat. They show "complete" granular pebbles, none of which have ever been "cut" in either the heart or it's seat.

Now love, I may be completely off base, but think on it a bit and continue to have fun, but with caution.


Remember, according to Gollyum, there IS a mine in there, and there is no disputing the small arrastra.

Golly, shaddup about my artistic skill hmmm snifff.

Tropical Tramp

 

[Twilla]

Hi TT!
Now you really have me curious. What small Arrastra? Did we overlook something that you saw? If so, in which picture is it located? Curious heck! I'm excited!!!!!!
Okay, I see what yu are saying about the heart too so I guess that means it's not man mad. Bummer! Oh well, we're having a great time up there. We aren't intending to invest any money just yet, just our own sweaet and hard work. Thanks for looking and for the for the inpuyt1

T

 

[Cannonman17]

Well, nobody can argue that rock wall (i'm guessing the top of it is the trail) rocks don't just fall into place like that..I am still skeptical on the turtle though..

 

[Real de Tayopa Tropical Tramp]

HI TWILL Love: Gallum's [post # 175 is the arrastra. I assume that this is in area?

Tropical Tramp

 

[gollum]

HI TWILL Love: Gallum's [post # 175 is the arrastra. I assume that this is in area?

Tropical Tramp

Hey Realde,

No, the pictures I posted, are not in this area. They are all associated with the Turtle and Mine Trail Pics above that in post# 171. I only threw in those four pics to show our FORMER MENSA buddy that he didn't know what he was talking about. I'll pull those pictures so nobody else thinks they are at Twilla's site.

Mike

 

[Real de Tayopa Tropical Tramp]

HI Twilla love and assoc. as I suggested, give it some thought, always remembering that even though my initiales are "JC", I am not "HIM!"

Even Gallum can, and will, happily show you many errors on my part, so go have fun and make me proud of having a rich friend.

love that area, but be careful..

Tropical Tramp

 

[gollum]

Hey Jose,

Like I told TimRino, without me seeing anything in person, I am loathe to speak in absolutes. It's possible (although unlikely), that the "Map Rock" is natural. It's possible that the hearts and crosses are all natural. The only thing I have seen that I believe absolutely looks man made, is the removeable heart. I would say again, that which I have said before in other posts. Taken by themselves, any of these markers could be naturally formed rocks. But all of these things looked at together, make it very unlikely that they are all natural. I could take any of these pictures individually, and pick them apart, showing how they could be natural variations. There comes a point in time, however, that you must step back and look at the big picture.

Does the fact that there are several possibilities make it certain? No, but this many possibles makes it much more unlikely that these individual rock markers are all natural. There's a time to look at the minutiae, and a time to look at the big picture.

Cannonman,
Those words apply to you as well. Once you understand how turtles were constructed, it makes it more obvious that it was man made. They would either find or form a long rock for the head and neck, and use natural grain structure in the rock to form the mouth and eyes. They would hollow out a part of the rock formation in which to insert the neck. depending on how high they wanted the head to be, they would place rocks underneath. After they placed the neck in place, they would place counterbalance rocks above the back of the neck. Even with all this, the turtle could have been natural, but step back, and look at the larger picture, of the turtle, and the trail, and the arrastra, and the mine, then that proves the nature of the turtle.

Sometimes you must step back and look at the big picture. This will many times show you that the perfect rock marker you have found is completely natural! If you step back and say, "OK, what is this marker pointing to?" Because they never pointed to nothing. If it is a marker, it ALWAYS led to something else. You might see a perfect cross, until you step back and look at the surrounding rocks. Do the lines from your cross continue on into the surrounding rocks in the formation? Your perfect cross is most likely natural. I have thousands of pictures of great looking rock formations, that lead to nothing, or carvings that continue into the surrounding rocks. I don't post any of them, because I believe them to be natural.

Twilla,
In the pictures you got for me, I don't see anything likely man made. The only thing piques my attention, is the small rock laying on top of the tallest rock in the formation. It would have been VERY tough for that rock to have gotten up there by accident. Not impossible, but VERY tough.

What I would like to see, is a drawing of this whole area. Include all the rock formations, and orient them according to exactly where all the markers are, and the directions they face. I still can't wrap my head around how all those different rock formations relate to each other. That will be the key as to how everything fits together. You can draw it on paper, and scan it in, but if you don't have a scanner, you can use MS PAint. You just click the Start Button>All Programs>Accessories>Paint. Do that, and save the drawing, then post it, please.

Thanks
Mike

 

[Real de Tayopa Tropical Tramp]

don't forget the "X" !!!!




Hehhe sorry peeps, I just had to put in my sllly remark.

Don't worry about gollyum Twilla.

Tropical Tramp

 

[Goldminer]

Mike,
Here in Arizona, I have seen many rock formations just like the ones pictured. I too believe this site to be natural. All granite rock formations can have natural occurrences of small rocks sitting atop larger ones due to foliation (sp) My partner and I just spent some time in the Mormon Mtn. area where this was quite common. It sure looks as if someone placed the small rocks, but there were just too many to be natural.
Bill

 

[gollum]

Mike,
Here in Arizona, I have seen many rock formations just like the ones pictured. I too believe this site to be natural. All granite rock formations can have natural occurrences of small rocks sitting atop larger ones due to foliation (sp) My partner and I just spent some time in the Mormon Mtn. area where this was quite common. It sure looks as if someone placed the small rocks, but there were just too many to be natural.
Bill

Hey Bill,

1. Do you believe this site to be COMPLETELY natural? Have you looked at all the pictures posted here? I will include a few at the end of this post. No telling when the number three was put there, but it is NOT natural. That Pig Monument is about as good as I have ever seen. What I call (for lack of a better term) the "Map Rock".Natural?

2. ...due to foliation? Is there any evidence of roots or vines? Actually, the most common reason for cracking rocks in the desert is freezing. In the wet season, water gets in the cracks and fissures, and at night, when it freezes, it lifts and separates the rocks from their bases. On some rocks, this is a possibility, but look back to posts# 48 and the first pic in #167. Explain to me, how either foliation or freezing water accounts for #48. I can see possibly #167 that freezing could be responsible (but not foliation).

3. You say.."Just too many to be natural" How many do you see here? In an area of several acres, I have seen three posted.

I agree that the great majority is most likely natural. Like I said in a PM to Jose, it's a shame (no matter how well intentioned) that some people have posted seeing a million markers and death traps in those few pictures. Probably driving poor Twilla crazy running down all those things! There are some more that were in the twin thread to this that Twilla removed.

Look, I have no problem calling a spade a spade. If there weren't something to her site, I wouldn't want her wasting her time there. AZ has a ton of neat things to see, but like I said, Big Picture.

Mike

 

[gollum]

``

 

[djui5]

I'm not trying to contribute to anyone chasing their tails, but I found some other markings (looks like it anyway) near the hilighted portion of the bed picture. Thought I'd share, and you can look into if you want or not.