Advanced Treasure Marks and Symbols 110

[Old Dog]

Mike,
Our amigo Rangler has it right.
All of the Decrees by the Crown were strictly enforced by what was referred to as "The pain of Spain". This amounted to the hangman's noose at the discretion of the King's men where transgressors were discovered. These guys were pretty fear struck in their search for wealth.I have places that show the kings men in place to collect the fifth ... and the territorial governor didn't know they were there.

Go figure.

Come see me... I'll show you.

 

Amazon Forum Fav 👍

Diving for Pleasure and Treasure - Grab it through Amazon!

[Springfield]

..... you seem to think this was a group of entrepreneurs and out free styling, collecting gold, stashing it, make a monument, carve some rock, go back home and come back years later and dig it up..naw man..no way...this was a machine...with strict ordered and enforced rules..any independent gold seeker, would take their gold with them, as springfield has said...this is not that...this is the tax caches we are looking for..sure the mines are there but my interest is in only the caches.
hope this helps under stand the 'game' so you know how to make the calls.
rangler

That's the point of your explanation of the 'game' that has never made sense when given serious thought. Why would such a well-organized 'machine' leave the fruit of their labor behind? Please don't say 'Indians' because that arguement does not wash. Wouldn't it make perfect sense to bring the King's share, the most important share, home first? And if there were so many of the King's caches abandoned out there, why are they still there unrecovered?

You've found some good clues here and there that can be shown to be related and some of them may have something to do with concealed valuables. Now it's time to leave this 'King's code', 'Spanish machine' explanation and try to find out who really left the carvings and monuments, why they left them, why they are 'rediscovered' and refurbished if necessary every generation, what (if anything) is hidden, and why it has apparently not been recovered. It's a game all right, and the prize is to figure out the game really is. Try to see up the card shark's sleeves - don't focus on his hands.

 

[hadji009]

331 137 compass headings?

 

[Pala Y Pico]

Opposite of 333 ?

 

[rangler]

Springfield,
you replied...That's the point of your explanation of the 'game' that has never made sense when given serious thought. Why would such a well-organized 'machine' leave the fruit of their labor behind?

I think some points are missing in your observation..

1. the prospecting and mining was done by one group of people, who were given 80% of the goods by agreement.
2. the fee for being allowed to take the lions share was 20% tax/quint.
3. now realize they were taking the real fruit of their labor [the 80%]!!
so your concept is correct, it is just you forgot about the biggest piece of the pie..
4. not only was the tax caches left behind...they often took the more valuable gold, and left the less valuable and bulky silver behind for the kings men to deal with...this was tolerated as the 'value' or 'percentage was correct...kinda like paying your parking ticket with pennies..see what I am saying ?

In additiion, I notice some correlation, yet unproven, but a detectives 'informed speculation', and if that word is objectionable, then consider it a 'gut' feeling..
that is the gold in most parts of the southwest and west, runs 20 percent silver
and by coincidence the tax was 20%..hmmm seems more like a plan than happenstance
I may be wrong, but until proven, this seems to stick out, like a sore thumb..
rangler

That is why these caches are relatively small, in contrast to the size of the mine.
appreciate you questioning the reasoning...
rangler

 

[hadji009]

d

 

[Old Dog]

that is the gold in most parts of the southwest and west, runs 20 percent silver
and by coincidence the tax was 20%..hmmm seems more like a plan than happenstance
I may be wrong, but until proven, this seems to stick out, like a sore thumb..
rangler

Now you are starting to see the truth.
gold is a bonus. its the silver that makes the whole thing work

 

[Springfield]

.....

1. the prospecting and mining was done by one group of people, who were given 80% of the goods by agreement.
2. the fee for being allowed to take the lions share was 20% tax/quint.
3. now realize they were taking the real fruit of their labor [the 80%]!!
so your concept is correct, it is just you forgot about the biggest piece of the pie..
4. not only was the tax caches left behind...they often took the more valuable gold, and left the less valuable and bulky silver behind for the kings men to deal with...this was tolerated as the 'value' or 'percentage was correct...kinda like paying your parking ticket with pennies..see what I am saying ?

In additiion, I notice some correlation, yet unproven, but a detectives 'informed speculation', and if that word is objectionable, then consider it a 'gut' feeling..
that is the gold in most parts of the southwest and west, runs 20 percent silver
and by coincidence the tax was 20%..hmmm seems more like a plan than happenstance
I may be wrong, but until proven, this seems to stick out, like a sore thumb..
rangler

That is why these caches are relatively small, in contrast to the size of the mine.
appreciate you questioning the reasoning...
rangler

You are contradicting yourself and destroying the logic of your premise.

Now you are saying the miners removed the gold and left the silver. 'That is why the caches are small'. Historically (not today) silver was worth 1/16th the value of gold. That means even at 20%, your silver cache was twice the size of the gold removed. That of course assumes the mine produced both gold and silver that was separatable with the technology available at the time. This was impossible unless a mine was located that produced both oxide-rich gold ore that could have been rough-smelted and native silver that could have been separately extracted from the same deposit. Hint: this combination has never been reported. Your observation that rough-smelted gold ingots from your assumed time period often contained significant amounts of silver is definitely correct, but they also frequently contained even more copper. Who got the copper?

Another couple questions - for you too, Old Dog. With the king's masons on hand to mark the king's caches, presumably the most important share (you know, 'pain of Spain'), why did they leave it behind? Are you claiming that the miners brought home their 80% and abandoned the king's share back in the wilderness, even though the king's specially trained people were along for the ride? Please explain why the king didn't demand delivery of his property. Second - if what you claim is true, why didn't the king send his people back to recover his share later? Seems simple - his men marked it and buried it, didn't they? Would have been easy.

No, sorry guys, none of this makes sense no matter how you try to spin it. I should know, because I tried to make it work in my mind too 30 years ago. It doesn't work (and I think you know it doesn't). We are finding carvings, monuments and other signs - yes indeed. They are cleverly executed, yes. They can be associated with additional signs, definitely. However, with fewer exceptions than you could count on your fingers (if even that many), these clues are not Spanish era. You guys are on a mysterious trail no doubt - but it is not the King's Trail. The sooner you realize this, the better.

 

[Pala Y Pico]

As I was reading this thread,I remembered Tesoro Del Alma .com.

 

[Old Dog]

Any time I have been able to use mercury to pull gold from sand of any kind It assays out with an amount of silver.
Sometimes as much as 35 to 40% and once with as little as 2%, there is usually some copper and other heavy metals such as arsenic. The only times my assay was mercury free was when I didn't use any.

Gold and Silver do occur together quite often. The metals can be separated with acid and precipitated out in an almost pure form. I suspect that very few of the miners would have had a copy of De Re Metalica handy to reference to create the right formulas to do this. I am told some operations in Mexico did use the precipitation process, they had guys who knew some chemistry and could make the acids required on demand.

was excited to see an original copy of De Re Metalica in the original Latin sell at auction in Feb this year ... it went for $37,000 and change.

 

[Springfield]

As I was reading this thread,I remembered Tesoro Del Alma .com.

Caveat emptor.

 

[Pala Y Pico]

As I was reading this thread,I remembered Tesoro Del Alma .com.

Caveat emptor.

Good advice when buying a used car, or the reliability of information accepted as fact by us newbies, found on the Web and this forum.

With more pacience then necessary toward each other, let the fun continue.

Caveat venditor

 

[dsty]

I wonder if they used the silver for trade and stored the gold.

 

[rangler]

springfield,
you had stated in reply...

You are contradicting yourself and destroying the logic of your premise.

Now you are saying the miners removed the gold and left the silver. 'That is why the caches are small'. Historically (not today) silver was worth 1/16th the value of gold. That means even at 20%, your silver cache was twice the size of the gold removed. [1] That of course assumes the mine produced both gold and silver that was separatable with the technology available at the time. This was impossible unless a mine was located that produced both oxide-rich gold ore that could have been rough-smelted and native silver that could have been separately extracted from the same deposit. Hint: this combination has never been reported. [2] Your observation that rough-smelted gold ingots from your assumed time period often contained significant amounts of silver is definitely correct, but they also frequently contained even more copper. Who got the copper?

Another couple questions - for you too, Old Dog. [3] With the king's masons on hand to mark the king's caches, presumably the most important share (you know, 'pain of Spain'), why did they leave it behind? Are you claiming that the miners brought home their 80% and abandoned the king's share back in the wilderness, even though the king's specially trained people were along for the ride? Please explain why the king didn't demand delivery of his property. Second - if what you claim is true, why didn't the king send his people back to recover his share later? Seems simple - his men marked it and buried it, didn't they? Would have been easy.

No, sorry guys, none of this makes sense no matter how you try to spin it. I should know, because I tried to make it work in my mind too 30 years ago. It doesn't work (and I think you know it doesn't). We are finding carvings, monuments and other signs - yes indeed. They are cleverly executed, yes. They can be associated with additional signs, definitely. However, with fewer exceptions than you could count on your fingers (if even that many), these clues are not Spanish era. You guys are on a mysterious trail no doubt - but it is not the King's Trail. The sooner you realize this, the better.

[1]Now you are saying the miners removed the gold and left the silver. 'That is why the caches are small'. Historically (not today) silver was worth 1/16th the value of gold. That means even at 20%, your silver cache was twice the size of the gold removed.

that was the point of "paying a parking ticket with pennies" comment, the silver being more bulky than the gold but still 'coin of the realm'...the thinking was, let the kings mens and their crew and gear, take these tons of silver to the coast and the galleons.
a clever way to pay the price in the accord with the king, and get away clean with just the gold bars.
[2]Your observation that rough-smelted gold ingots from your assumed time period often contained significant amounts of silver is definitely correct, but they also frequently contained even more copper. Who got the copper?

A. copper mixed with gold would be rated as 18k not 24 with appox 25% copper/75% gold

[3] that was my assertion not old dogs, you are seeing this in a myopic way...there was a separation of these players...the mason worked for wages, the others a percentage...the jesuits were there with the with maps and plans.
They had free reign, there where in the early days and later in the more isolated places no one else there to molest them...they prospected, they mined, the smelted,they paid the quint, built the monument, buried same...shipped the goods to the pope...who has a lovely basement all a glitter.....years later even decades later, sometimes even centuries separated the mines and the kings men recovery crew.

You might not believe the above scenario, but you can disprove it either.
I work day to day decoding monuments now numbering in the hundreds
the code is clear if you know. and graffiti filled if you dont.
rangler


i think this means air all right but the air that comes in a pozo!!

 

[rangler]

bill,
i started this thread to get rid of distractions, and confusion, yet here you persist...
everyone wonders why...so do I .
here is a note from www.minerals.com

Gold in its natural mineral form almost always has traces of silver, and may also contain traces of copper and iron. A Gold nugget is usually 70 to 95 percent gold, and the remainder mostly silver.

so from 5 to 30% silver, is 17% by raw average, very close to the before mentioned 20%

please Bill dont post on my thread again!! you have plenty of threads here to show your erroneous suppositions & graffiti marks on others photographs. me i am sick and tired of it. period.
rangler

 

[Springfield]

springfield,
"Just trying to encourage the dreamers in Fantasyville to throw away the comic books and get serious. Or keep reading the comcs - your choice."

you seem to be trapped in a bit of circular logic, which with an illogical premise, you reached an untenable conclusion.

if we are all 'reading comics in fantasyland' then you must straighten us all out with your knowledge and insights... otherwise you will be considered a 'blow hard, know nothing'.

who's only ability is to criticize anyone who works on the treasure code.
if you feel so strongly that we are all wet, then where is your threads that shed light on the comic book land of dreamers...?

without an effort to relay some facts and solutions your comments are empty disparaging remarks..so put up or shut up dude...this 'advanced' thread is an attempt to learn something, if you can't help us do that , then dont post here...
note: it is easy to tear something down...a monkey and sledge hammer can tear a house down, but even a thousand monkeys, outfitted with framing hammers will never build a house, even in a million years...
so really man, unless you give us some of your 'insights' your just a monkey with a sledge hammer...
we dont need anyone telling us what we cant do...only looking for people -to post here - who can help us 'build this house'
rangler

I have mentioned innumerable times that I don't have the answers to these mysteries. I never said I did - that's why I question you. You continue play the expert and dodge requests for proof that your theories hold water. Just because you say things are so does not make it so. Maybe some of your ideas are valid - there's no way of telling, short of taking your statements at face value. I for one would like to see something concrete. You can blame me all you want if you think it bolsters your image - I don't care.

 

[Blind.In.Texas]

springfield,
"Just trying to encourage the dreamers in Fantasyville to throw away the comic books and get serious. Or keep reading the comcs - your choice."

you seem to be trapped in a bit of circular logic, which with an illogical premise, you reached an untenable conclusion.

if we are all 'reading comics in fantasyland' then you must straighten us all out with your knowledge and insights... otherwise you will be considered a 'blow hard, know nothing'.

who's only ability is to criticize anyone who works on the treasure code.
if you feel so strongly that we are all wet, then where is your threads that shed light on the comic book land of dreamers...?

without an effort to relay some facts and solutions your comments are empty disparaging remarks..so put up or shut up dude...this 'advanced' thread is an attempt to learn something, if you can't help us do that , then dont post here...
note: it is easy to tear something down...a monkey and sledge hammer can tear a house down, but even a thousand monkeys, outfitted with framing hammers will never build a house, even in a million years...
so really man, unless you give us some of your 'insights' your just a monkey with a sledge hammer...
we dont need anyone telling us what we cant do...only looking for people -to post here - who can help us 'build this house'
rangler

I have mentioned innumerable times that I don't have the answers to these mysteries. I never said I did - that's why I question you. You continue play the expert and dodge requests for proof that your theories hold water. Just because you say things are so does not make it so. Maybe some of your ideas are valid - there's no way of telling, short of taking your statements at face value. I for one would like to see something concrete. You can blame me all you want if you think it bolsters your image - I don't care.

I don't know everything either. The OP wants everyone who reads his word to understand that he knows so much about treasure hunting and signs. There are many pieces of information, that I have seen written by others, that I would like to believe. However, with no proof of some of these claims by others, I simply must take all information as a mere suggestion or, intelligent supposition.

The OP has stated previously that he is writing a book, about signs and symbols and monuments, and that some folks might even receive a signed copy for some particular reason. This statement, in itself, should be enough of a clue for everyone to question where rangler gets his information and to ask him to show his work. Remember when our teachers used to tell us to show our work when we did homework and especially on test day? Why was that? To prove we weren't cheating. This is not to say that rangler cheats. This is to say that we would like to see photographic evidence of one sign leading to another, courtesy of rangler's archives. After all, we are expected to believe his information. Should we not be allowed to ask to see his work.

This is on the tail of my previous reply to this thread where, I posted a picture and the OP got it wrong. The image contains "textbook" markings that everyone has seen in the past, yet he never saw them, or if he did, he did not know what to do with them. As a matter of fact, I would have been thoroughly pleased, had rangler gotten my picture correct immediately. It took me months to figure out how to work the scene. Had the OP gotten it right so immediately, it would have lended credence to his claims of vast knowledge...........however, he failed. Miserably. Yet, we are expected to believe that he is making accurate judgements, in a matter of minutes or ours, about rocks and places he has never seen and never been to.

If the mods are going to allow him to continue spreading his information as concrete, I think they should make him start showing his work or shut him down.

 

[Pala Y Pico]

Rangler has offered to teach. I am interested.

I am also interested in learning from others that post on this thread. But I have not seen the offer or invitation. If I have missed it, please guide me to your thread.

This is ranglers thread, he gave his thoughs as to how he wanted it to work.

I have not seen rangler vandalize someone elses thread, for his own personal enjoyment, as I have seen that happen to his thread.

Attacking someone else, I already know, as I was born with that disposition.

If rangler has a death trap waiting for me, please please show me the signs so that I may save myself.

With more patience then necessary toward each other, let the fun continue, about Treasure Signs/Symbols.

 

[poorfarm]

i agree pala

 

[Springfield]

... This is ranglers thread, he gave his thoughs as to how he wanted it to work. ....

It's my understanding that this is a public forum operated by TreasureNet. Perhaps rangler ought to start up his own blog - then he could accept/reject whomever he wishes.