Introducing Mr. Turtlehead and Hello, Hoyo ...

[Springfield]

Well, mdog, I know you like maps and place names. You're right, Capitan Mountain in Lincoln County, NM, has an Aztec treasure cache associated with it, although details are scant. I don't believe the tale originated with Roger. Cordova, NM, in the Sangre de Christos, is interesting too. This is the location of the lost goldmine of Juan Mondragón - quite an intriguing tale. Mondragón - French for 'my dragon', Nobody?

While you're at it, you might plot the locations of the two French Jesuit churches in SE Colorado. Just west of San Luis, CO, on the hill (Cretan labyrinth west of the church). Also, the church with the weird circular structure at La Garita, just northwest of the trading post, about 8 or 10 miles northwest of Center, CO.

 

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[bob632]

Hey, Dog. I'm beginning to think that HE does not know. I'm beginning to think that HE is hoping YOU or someone ELSE on the forum can explain it to HIM. Cheez, how many times has he told us to, basically, bugger off and that he's leaving the forum never to be heard from again Maybe 6 or 7 times?? Smoke and mirrors??

And how many times have I pointed you in the right direction, and you ALL still keep up the same charade?

I don't know what it is about your "generation" thinking that all you have to do is say something enough times that anyone will believe it. I guess it's from having everything handed to you on a silver platter.


I'm not giving you anything.....I don't owe it to you.

Medicine Rocks State Park - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

pay close attention to the "significance of the site" section


And shortstack,......feel free to bugger off.



EDIT:

let's give you a chance to put your EGO where your typing is at, if you're so sure the spanish are responsible for these things you like to call hoyos....prove it. Post ANY verifiable, historical proof that they used holes in rocks for laying out trails for mines.

we'll see who doesn't know what they are talking about.

who would you believe? the person that puts forth evidence in a manner that anyone can observe, research and draw their own conclusions?

or the rest of you folks.......talk about smoke and mirrors, I doubt you could scrape up a spanish artifact that was over 100 years old between all of you.

 

[bob632]

not a chance.

for all you know a "lue" is a potty.


and fyi I like you people waaaayyy less than you like me< so there's something we can agree about.


pissing me off will not get me to post anything relevent by the way.


delete my account.

 

[Springfield]

I need to sleep on how to synthesize my thoughts to your questions in a short readable post (not that I have all of the answers, or any), Springfield, as this is obviously a subject that can be covered by a book - a multi volume one. In the interim, I have a question for you, and it relates to something I have said in this thread:

Have you ever considered your outlined Venus Cross to be symbolic of something other than Venus? Not necessarily to the exclusion of, but potentially in addition to. I'm not saying it is, but I ain't so certain you are not looking at the mark of a Secret Society, one that really doesn't get too much mention, like the Templars, but maybe should ...

Yes. All the below.

1) Venus/Lucifer/Quetzalcoatl/Kukukan/Viracoca/et al
2) A mountain peak
3) A surveyor's turning point
4) A trail marker
5) A mark of possession
6) Templar cross
7) Specific peak once known as 'Santo Nino de Atocha' aka 'Monte Christo' in New Mexico (current name is different)

 

[Springfield]

... There is the exoteric History and the esoteric one. The esoteric one will often not be found in writing for you or I to read and have access to...

Yeah, that's the Big Rub. Folks think they can 'research' themselves into a revelation. The old documents available in the public domain are what the old chumps were given to work with. The current documents available in the public domain are what we modern day chumps get. BS is BS whether it's on parchment or in binary code. I once saw a book titled, Everything You Believe is a Lie. Looked a little kooky, but the guy might be right. I would say the further back you go in history, the closer you might get to what you're looking for.

 

[bob632]

You guys need to work on your reading comprehension skills.

don't forget your cross in babylon.

http://books.google.com/books?id=XO...6S7Z9JPu0gTKu6ip2g&ci=152,258,839,1107&edge=0

THROUGH OUR UNKNOWN SOUTHWEST - AGNES C. LAUT - Google Books


I'd say anything written since 1890 is just regurgitated b.s.

something to do with copyright laws.

only fools buy into something without having any proof, of course that doesn't stop them from looking for spanish treasure all over the place now does it.

 

[Shortstack]

Nobody:
I don't intend to have any pissing contest with Bob632. He is rangler reborn and I can ignore HIM just as easily.

Now, about the subjects of Sitchin, the Annunaki, UFO sitings, etc. Those areas of study are all connected and should be expanded. The stone construction at Puma Punku is an excellent example of advanced technology in use thousands of years ago. One theory is the stones were softened some how and shaped to fit. Another idea is that some LASER device was used to cut the stones, but I have yet to see or hear anyone else mention water jet technology. Water jets could have cut those stones and would make greater sense. If the cut faces could be studied to see if an intense heat did the cutting or if the faces show microscopic marks left by the grit used in water jets.

I mention the above subjects simply to illustrate the varying ideas of technologies and the entities who used them and to broaden the reference areas. Here in the U.S., there are examples of some amazing artistic products left by SOMEONE back in antiquity. Specifically, I'm thinking of the almost photographic quality of portraits of human faces left on the surfaces of stones of differing structures. There is a huge cliff face that has the faces of a man and woman applied the stone that is almost a Sepia Tone photo. Amazing as hell. I've seen one or two other examples of that technique showing up in other folks' photos, but it has not been presented as separate subjects of wonder. I wonder why. No one has seemed interested in exploring where THAT idea might lead. After all, to apply that one pair of faces to that cliff side would have required a way to levitate into the air to an altitude of at least a couple of hundred feet and more, PLUS, maneuver as needed to accomplish the project. The tool used to change the rock face material to give the photographic differences would be something in the range of a LASER device OR perhaps an ink applicator with very tiny ports to spit out the colorant........a lot like the ink jet printers we all have today.

Have you ever heard of the Mystery Arch in southern Arizona that was thought to be a portal into another dimension or time?? Very interesting and the guy who wrote an article about how he found the arch and it is just a natural formation that didn't do a thing while he sat around on it and walked through it, etc. The only thing is.....it was NOT the one of legends. The one he used for his article was only a couple of feet taller than his height so, right off the bat, he was blowing smoke. The true arch was tall enough for a several men to ride their horses through at once.

As large as the Carlsbad Caverns are, has anyone ever read ANYTHING written about it's exploration? It's been ignored, for the most part. I started a little project to investigate it's possible use by the government to store certain things that would need constant, even temperatures and spotted a heliport pad in the middle of nowhere, in a forested area that had only one wilderness road into the general area that ended about 2 miles away from that pad. At first I thought maybe the pad was a spot for firefighters to be dropped, but it is just not LARGE enough for anything like that. I found it on a topo map first, then used Google Map to find it on satellite photos. I have read that only a small area of the caverns are open to the public and that the many natural openings scattered about the range, especially on the backside of the ridge, are fenced off and have warning signs posted at them by the US Government. A lot like the ones posted at the entrance road leading to Area 51.

The Spanish were a johnny-come-lately group who were convenient targets to hang a bunch of historical fiction on and hide a LOT of activities they were not even REMOTELY connected with.

 

[Shortstack]

The PhD's also choose to ignore the etchings of Stegosauri on the burial stones discovered in many burial location in the Nazca Plains area. Those etchings were so DETAILED that they showed the veins in the large armor plates sticking vertically from their backs. The only way the artists would have known about that veining would be if they had seen LIVING examples. Oh, and they also show humans riding the Stegs as domesticated animals. Just like natives in Indo China and areas of Africa do with the Cape Buffalo. The Cape Buffalo is a very dangerous animal in the wild, but some are domesticated for working on the farms. Now, MY idea is that if man can domesticate the Cape Buffalo, then he can domesticate a Stegasauris since both animals are herbivores. Yes, I realize that other PhDs claim that the dinosaurs died out 77 million years before man appeared. LMAO, yep, I believe that, too. They choose to ignore the human footprints in bedrock trailing along with dinosaurs who left THEIR footprints, too. Totally ignored.

Nobody, have you considered whether or not Darwin was a willing accomplice with covering up a lot of our human history. After all, most of what he wrote was stuff he'd "borrowed" from his Grandfather's writings. He made a huge mistake in his book, On The Origins of Man, when he wrote that he thought that the dark-skinned race was a mistake in Nature and he fully expected Nature would correct that mistake within the next 200 years. Then, later in the book, he wrote that if any of his theories were ever proven wrong, then ALL of his work should be put aside and reevaluated. I read those statements in a copy of his book that was reprinted in about 1923 and you will NOT find them in printings done after about the middle of the 1960s.......that is, IF it was reprinted that late. Hitler used Darwin's evaluation of the dark skinned race along with the eugenics crap written about and pushed by the founder of The Planned Parenthood Organization. SHE was setting up a way to mechanically erase the dark skinned race as a whole, and Hitler was after just one particular segment of that area......the Jews.

Now, if Darwin was the tool for covering up "Man's" true origins, then that would be the reason that all the PhDs jumped on board to support his fiction. They did not want to have to investigate the peoples who were responsible for the true origin. I wonder who Darwin's buddies were outside of the scientific community.

EDIT: You mentioned the cranes and sand dunes.....what about the sea gulls being in Utah. They supposedly were brought in as an answer to prayers to save the farmers' crops that were being destroyed by a serious locust plague.

 

[Shortstack]

Are you aware that in order for the Colorado River to cut the Grand Canyon, the river would have had to flow UPHILL?? There's a ridge formation that goes basically northwest to southeast that crosses the Grand Canyon and one theory is that ridge formed a kind of natural dam to an extremely large lake and the water in that lake was made to over flow by the Great Flood. The water began to flow over the top and quickly eroded through that ridge......in a matter of weeks or months and not centuries. If you open up Google Earth and let it draw down to a point that fills your monitor screen and show the natural folage coloration, you can see very easily, the way the great flood formed the flood plains across the entire area of what's now the U.S. The Wichita Mountains, of Oklahoma, are, according to the geologists ( PhDs ) the oldest mountains in America, but they are not very big. You can easily see in that Google Earth view, that they are right in the middle of a huge flood plane that surrounded them, in the end of the flood times. In the state of Mississippi, where I live, you can see the huge bank-like area formed by today's Yazoo River and the Mississippi River's eastern banks. The soil along the stretch of the Mississippi River on it's eastern bank from Vicksburg on south at least as far as Natchez, is built up of an unusually fine grain loamy soil that is as much as 30 feet deep in places. The PhDs write that it was deposited here by dust storms through the millions of years of history. Never mind that they never bothered to explain HOW the dust storms chose the line of the east banks of the river to stop blowing and to drop the dirt. LOL That dirt is supposedly the same as loam from as far away as Kansas and Oklahoma. You can see the soil by calling up the tourist photos of Vicksburg and noting the high banks where the streets and other roadways cut through them.

 

[Springfield]

...Take a look at places in SE Utah, AZ, etc. Looks like a whole bunch of water eroded it QUICK. And it is a theory, a line of speculation, but one I'm exploring ...

And yes, for the scoffers, I am fully aware of the geological Sciences and the PhDs that study them ...

Anybody who's taken a close look at the Grand Canyon and believes it was formed over millions of years through methodical erosion is mentally asleep and proves how easy it is to manipulate the human mind. IMO, it was a short-term cataclysm. But when? Logically, ca 10,000 bc at the end of the Ice Age.

Ants? Yes, Frank Waters cites a Hopi story wherein the tribe was living underground with the Ant People waiting for the flood waters to recede so that they could return to the surface. Brings to mind the Hollow Earth rumors, Admiral Bird, Colonel Fawcett, etc.

... Any of you every meet Doc? What the hell do you know about him, then? Enough to make judgements about is character? Or only guesses, based upon hearsay, which carries far less certainty than a judgement. ...

Everything is hearsay. You make judgements on all of it, even 'facts'.

Actually, I did know an old guy in Silver City who knew Noss back in the '30's when Doc was in Clovis, NM. The old coot said, "Everybody stayed away from him. He was a liar, cheat and a drug addict too. He didn't last long in Clovis." Hearsay for sure. Maybe Doc was a great guy, but his buddy Charley Ryan apparently didn't think much of him.

 

[Springfield]

It's interesting that the big cathedrals in Europe and many Catholic churches in our country (St Francis Cathedral in Santa Fe, eg) use the Chartes or similar labyrinth design - precise, balanced, tedious, nose-to-the-grindstone ritual path, while the San Luis church chose the seven-pass (there's that number seven again) design which is more of an undefined, mysterious path associated not with Catholics, but with the ancient Minoans and certain native Americans.

 

[Springfield]

Hoo boy. Mapping. Geometry. Lines and angles. You may disappear for days, weeks at a time. You're going to need to remember to eat and sleep while you go blind. That said, I think you're probably in fertile territory.

By the way, was St George a good guy or a bad guy?

 

[mdog]

Hoo boy. Mapping. Geometry. Lines and angles. You may disappear for days, weeks at a time. You're going to need to remember to eat and sleep while you go blind. That said, I think you're probably in fertile territory.

By the way, was St George a good guy or a bad guy?

Time to break out the Tylenol.

 

[mdog]

Magnetic Declination Isogonic Lines for the year 1870 (Variations of the Compass) : Geographicus Rare Antique Maps

The triangulation system might be something of interest when running lines. This small article offers a few research items of interest.

 

[Shortstack]

Nobody:
Did you see the episode of the TV series with that Wolford guy? (I think that was his name) H e went to the so-called, America's Stonehenge in Vermont? Supposedly a teenager there had discovered that if you shot a compass heading through the sighting slit in one side, it led to the Stonehenge in England, and went right over the middle of it, lining up with THAT sites sighting linework/ markings.

Well, I was hoping that he would show what the back azimuth would "hit", but he didn't even mention it. I was thinking that it would strike something important. That show and it's, SUPPOSEDLY geology expert who was SUPPOSEDLY looking for the Ancient stuff that disproved our history books. I began to think that he is another smoke screen generator.

 

[mdog]

Well, mdog, I know you like maps and place names. You're right, Capitan Mountain in Lincoln County, NM, has an Aztec treasure cache associated with it, although details are scant. I don't believe the tale originated with Roger. Cordova, NM, in the Sangre de Christos, is interesting too. This is the location of the lost goldmine of Juan Mondragón - quite an intriguing tale. Mondragón - French for 'my dragon', Nobody?

While you're at it, you might plot the locations of the two French Jesuit churches in SE Colorado. Just west of San Luis, CO, on the hill (Cretan labyrinth west of the church). Also, the church with the weird circular structure at La Garita, just northwest of the trading post, about 8 or 10 miles northwest of Center, CO.

Springfield brings up a good point about the name Juan Mondragon. Juan is the Spanish name for the English name John. Saint John is often represented by the eagle, so you have a name that could represent an eagle and a dragon or some combination of the two. Here's a link that shows a powerful family that uses both.

House of Borghese - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

The eagle and dragon seem to be common critters in heraldry. Just a thought, who knows.

 

[John_Arizona]

Something I have never come up with a good explanation for why effort was put into this little hole. One would definitely need to be roped up to access it from the trail up top, and it isn't very deep, at all:

View attachment 1036192

The green arrows are the trail that ends right at the edge of the cliff and right above the hole:

View attachment 1036193

A Google Earth pic, with the red circle in the lower right being where the hole is and the obvious trail to it. This is the ridge, where from the midpoint north, I will be taking a look up the canyon to see if I can spot that hoyo:

View attachment 1036194

Looks like the Hogback near Red Rocks in Morrison Colorado. I have been in that Cave

 

[mdog]

Springfield brings up a good point about the name Juan Mondragon. Juan is the Spanish name for the English name John. Saint John is often represented by the eagle, so you have a name that could represent an eagle and a dragon or some combination of the two. Here's a link that shows a powerful family that uses both.

House of Borghese - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

The eagle and dragon seem to be common critters in heraldry. Just a thought, who knows.

How the Borghese family acquired their titles

Villa Mondragone - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

 

[mdog]

Borghese Surname History
Pope Paul V, Camillo Borghese, was a member of the Borghese family which is said to have originated in the Middle East (the ancient area of Levant). Borghese is said to mean "son of Jesse" and members of this family are Italian and Aramaic. Some other spellings of this surname are Borgese, Borghesi, Borges, and Porges.1 Do you know more about the Borghese family? Please share your knowledge with your family.

 

[mdog]

Hey Nobody, I ran across this conspiracy article while I was looking for something else and I thought you might enjoy it.

Italy's Black Prince: Terror War Against the Nation-State