specifics when it comes to treasure signs

bjgiff

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Jul 29, 2010
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I've been doing some reading- ok lots of reading- and am baffled at the continual claims of consistency of treasure signs, the Spaniards and then find that everyone has "their own interpretation". I've read a couple of the Kenworthy books as well as Turtles Lead to Treasure.

Overall the books were ok but lacked the specific info I've been looking for. They were also disappointingly short and did not cite any specific success's by their interpretations nor other resources to further research.

I have read extensive posts here and at other forums as well as articles that cite various rock signs. The most specific I have found was an article about some carvings in the Uinta mountains of Utah. The "spanish carvings", when dated using tree rings dated back to no earlier than the 1930's-1950's. That article found here http://www.fs.usda.gov/Internet/FSE_DOCUMENTS/fsm9_002221.pdf

Having guided hunting parties, spent extensive time in the mountains moving cattle and horses in only a tent camp- I am a little familiar of what it takes to move weight and people in the wilderness. It has given me experience about navigating trails, coming back to "key points" and the various aspects of traveling in such a manner. The food and work it takes is extensive.

That being said- the Spanish had to be extremely aware of new growth of plants, trees, erosion and the many factors that can change a trail. Overall they had to be keen to the "natural paths" of nature. The fatigue that can be experienced by being in weather, low on food and sheer exhaustion from many factors would have required trails to be prominently marked in my opinion. It would have been unlikely that they had to have the sun "just right" at every marker as they were likely traveling and not sitting waiting on the sun at every turn- especially in country that winter set into.

I can understand how there could be signs at treasure sights that would be subtle and take time to understand once they were at a given location. The getting there would have had to have some very prominent markers and likely varied depending on terrain and what was available?

Not to insult anyone but I could drive a lot of people bonkers with photos of "turtles, indian heads, owls" and other "carvings" that are nothing more than mother nature and people wanting to see. Kinda like hunting- eventually the brush starts to move after you watch it long enough.

Any suggestions of where to look? I have a very interesting spot in the black hills. There were bandits and gold. Spaniards? Who knows but I have found a couple things of interest.
 

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Jan 16, 2011
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It sounds like you got a very good and realistic ideal on what its going to take for you to succeed. You have a great start already. Remember what you have learned and read already, but i think its will come down to what you find at each particular site,and who hid what and there system. That was a great read,thanks.
 

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bjgiff

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Jul 29, 2010
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Here's a few pics of what I have. *I have had one person helping me and pointing me in good direction and that has been very nice. I'm gathering the items needed to get started. In the pics- the triangle rock is on the ridge above the marker with hole in it. Sorry- it's rotated when it uploads.

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bjgiff

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Jul 29, 2010
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Black Hills with the historical gold mines and outlaws. No tailing piles or signs of mining that I've found in the area so far. Small stream but only very very small gold flakes in pan. Nothing significant. Land owner leases out their hunting as does his neighbors. Will go back later in the year- when leaves are off the trees and do some more looking around.
 

Jan 16, 2011
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If you believe in dowsing,make some rods,cheap to do,light to pack.Give that a try,there's info. on here to help with that. I believe in them. Have fun and Good Luck.
 

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bjgiff

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Jul 29, 2010
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If you believe in dowsing,make some rods,cheap to do,light to pack.Give that a try,there's info. on here to help with that. I believe in them. Have fun and Good Luck.

My grandfather and great grandfather used to "witch" water wells. When I was very young I helped my grandpa do one. They had a very high success rate. Will read up on doing it with treasure hunting. Started metal detecting. Lots of pull tabs and cans. Few bullets (not old) and things like that. Will try the dousing. The big rock with the hole in it took a lot of work to set. I'm 215 (190 lean) and I don't think 2 guys could lift it (I also quarried building stone for 8 years- picked up lots of rocks). The rocks above it are grouted in. The rocks it sits on are all placed- not solid. Lot of work. To me it looks like a seal over something.
 

Jan 16, 2011
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yea, someone did some hard work there. excellent eye on that,and its good you have experience in stone work. It might be a vault. had to hide your goods some where. The turtles,owls,duck,hearts,and other stander treasure signs you see online and in books are always good to spot.But there's always other things to spot like this area.You can tell if its been worked by man,it was done for a reason.And dont worry about not seeing the tailing piles,thats not a big deal at all,its a non issue to me.
 

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bjgiff

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For those who haven't done it- a pic of some friends taking in a hunting camp this fall. There will be another several trips in and out with supplies. Camp is about 15 miles in past vehicle access. The Spanish mining groups had to be a fair amount of people and I would assume needing fairly prominent trail markers or not? Would they stop at every marker to wait for the right time of day to interpret the signs? Trying to understand how it actually worked from my experiences in the back country.
 

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View attachment 1208808
For those who haven't done it- a pic of some friends taking in a hunting camp this fall. There will be another several trips in and out with supplies. Camp is about 15 miles in past vehicle access. The Spanish mining groups had to be a fair amount of people and I would assume needing fairly prominent trail markers or not? Would they stop at every marker to wait for the right time of day to interpret the signs? Trying to understand how it actually worked from my experiences in the back country.
Great photo bgjiff, and your asking some very good questions.Now imagine grabbing some locale Indians for slave labor in the mines, now you have your hands full of providing security from the hostile Indians for taking there family members. Unless you believe the Indians could care less about there family.Yep, it sure is alot of work without even doing any digging.Whos gonna take care of the livestock too?I like how your questioning the standard BS that goes along with Spanish miners.
 

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I look at it as the Spanish where trying to exploit what was already there. Especially the longer they got away from mexico city. If it was me, as a Spanish leader of a exploratory,recon,raiding party,only raid if you know you can beat the forces there,and you know the goodies are there. Other wise just do a recon. I would lead this team up to this area. The square and triangle ridge line doesn't look natural. View attachment 1209074
 

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bjgiff

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Jul 29, 2010
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Thanks for the feedback. I agree that they would have to use ridge lines and key "monuments" that were visible from a great distance. If I recollect correctly a wagon train, following an established route, made an average of 15 or so miles a day? Throw in winter conditions and the mining season could be fairly short. I also agree about using the Indians as much as possible. I do know that some Spanish artifacts, swords, helmets etc, have been found in Wyoming and other areas. Some speculate via the Indian trade and others that the Spanish were indeed in those regions.

In regards to the marker I came across in the Black Hills, I am going to try and return this fall, after hunting season, and take more photos. I need to get some better pictures and measurements of the "square box" that is carved directly horizontal to the large stone with the hole in it. The pictures I have don't do it justice as it is very uniform and "square". The triangle rock, on the bluff, above the marker also sits very odd. There were lots of sheep ranches and cattle ranches in the area as well as hunters, miners and outlaws. Hard to say at this point.
 

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bjgiff

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Jul 29, 2010
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I look at it as the Spanish where trying to exploit what was already there. Especially the longer they got away from mexico city. If it was me, as a Spanish leader of a exploratory,recon,raiding party,only raid if you know you can beat the forces there,and you know the goodies are there. Other wise just do a recon. I would lead this team up to this area. The square and triangle ridge line doesn't look natural. View attachment 1209074

hi dog- absolutely appreciate the feedback and have been mulling it over. Please understand no offense meant and only trying to relate. Your post is reflective to what I was trying to ask in regards to some markers having to be very pronounced. Statues and carvings in Europe and other continents have stayed pronounced, in acclimate weather, for hundreds of years. That being said I do understand "subtle signs" at or near the treasure sites. Heading off to "potential" man made sites via horseback in the wild results in weeks to months of time lost "following the map". While I do believe that lost treasures are likely everywhere those same treasures can't be in abundance everywhere. The notion of common trail signs with consistent signs can't be verified anywhere I've found. Direction to valid sources with specifics would be greatly appreciated. I haven't been able to find anything that relates to specifics as pronounced as the marker I've come across.
 

Rawhide

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My thought exactly, how could they lay out every site to specific set of rules. how can they come back over a ocean and find the exact spot. How did escalantes mark that trail? Wouls suggest you walk known treasure sites.
 

Jan 16, 2011
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I guess what iam trying to say bjgiff, is your going to have to figure it out yourself, at the site your working. it seems that your already seeing that alot of the things that you have read are not adding up. Which is a good thing. Your not falling for the cookie cutter ideal all sites are laid out with a rule book. Maybe someone on here can point you to the X spot, I doubt it. But you never know.
 

LoveSiberians

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specifics

If you can find it there is an excellent by called "Treasure Signs & Symbols" by Mary Carson.

Our family has been trying to to interpret signs on a granite boulders next to a stream in a deep canyon in Georgetown CA. It has been an an adventure for us for many years.

We think it is very very old Spanish and we believe we have found a hand asstra. Not indian had a professor a Sac State look at it. I wish we could get into the archives in Mexico.

Happy hunting.
 

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