Coincidence or Purposed ? Check this famous rock

[Mark60]

Anything is possible. Sure. But on the other hand, it starts to sound like the plot of a Raiders of the Lost Ark movie plot

I clearly get both ideas, Tom and mdog sure shapes can be coincidental, you see it all the time in nature, now would a person with something to hide take advantage of that I would absolutely have to say yes, for 2 reasons, 1 its significant in appearance enough to the person or persons doing the hiding to find it again , 2, the person or persons dont have to seek out another rock or tree or ? and manipulate it for their purpose.. is every profile of a face or an owl /turtle/eagle or heart a trail to treasure, NO, there has to be some semblance of a trail, I cant imagine just walking up to a spot and say "this is it I'm burying my gold here" at least thats my take IMO

 

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[Mark60]

even Indiana Jones had a trail or a map to follow

 

[Tom_in_CA]

..... now would a person with something to hide take advantage of that I would absolutely have to say yes, for 2 reasons, 1 its significant in appearance enough to the person or persons doing the hiding to find it again , ...

Mark60, I've done posse hunts for several persons who hid, then couldn't find something later. And in those cases (and cases of caches that I know of being found), there was very little "rhyme or reason" to the landmarks they might have chosen. Ie.: the fixed object (tree, rock, chimney, fence post, etc....) was not something "un-canny". So in actual real life, the notion you are advancing doesn't seem to hold enough merit to make it ..... as if those "un-canny" things are more-likely to be "treasure hiding spots".

2 examples come to mind (they're just examples, and I know that no 2 caches are alike):

a) I was called out by a realtor, who was preparing to sell a house. The elderly man who owned the house, was well into his 90s in age. In a convelescent home. No longer able to carry on conversations (ie.; advanced dimentia). But a few years earlier, when he still had some of his wits about him, he'd told his adult daughters that he'd buried jars of silver coins on the property. They didn't put much stock into it, and ... at the time, assumed he'd get better and head on home. But his condition only got worse, and pretty soon, a few years later, when they'd ask him "Dad, tell us again what you were saying about buried money?", the man was just too far along in dimentia and old age.

The house was going up for sale, and the daughters told the realtor the story. They rented a metal detector, walked all around, but .... didn't know what the heck they were doing (never operated a detector before). So they searched around for an experienced hunter, and were referred to me. I agreed to go check the property. We had only a few clues to go on, and that was the recollection by the daughters that it was on a "certain side of the house", "near a wall", etc...

I was able to find it. Simply at the base of a wall, beneath a window. Nothing out of the ordinary or unusual or uncanny, etc....

b) Another time I got called to posse hunt for an individual who said he'd buried a plastic tub full of gold coins at a buddy of his' house back-yard. Apparently he was in the midst of a divorce 10 yrs. earlier, and had wanted to hide some coins, "till the heat was gone". He didn't want this nest egg around anywhere near him, so he asked a buddy if he could please bury this at the other guy's house. The 2 men went out in the guys large backyard (a few acres) and chose a spot near the fence to bury it. The purposefully picked a prominent bush, and made mental note , for future sakes, where it was.

But as the years progressed, the homeowner did various yard work. Bushes and trees grew up during 10 yrs., such that .... what might have, at one time, been a "prominent" bush, now there were all sorts of trees and bushes (the man was a green thumb gardener, so it was not unusual for him to plant, prune, etc...).

After 10 yrs, the guy can back to dig up his gold coins. But now.... it seemed that EVERY bush "looked the same". They dug countless holes at what they thought (based on their mental recollections of 10 yrs. earlier) was the spot. To no avail. So they hired me, and I went out and found it for them

Point in each of these cases, is case examples of human nature that .... no ... you don't necessarily seek out "un-canny" spots to hide something. Any fence post, base of a chimney, etc..., tree, etc... suffices.

I have several more posse stories with the same conclusion. And know of caches found in my area, that were simply the result of someone digging a hubcab signal (they thought was about to be large junk), but with no correlation to anything un-canny as far as rocks, squiggles, signs, maps, etc..... I was a part of a "tame" cache, which was simply buried in the floor of a barn. No markers or anything that we could deduce in retrospect . Aside from perhaps the person who buried it, might have simply done it "next to such & such post", etc.... Nothing mysterious or un-canny.

 

[Quinoa]

Ok, I know it's pointless, but I'll bite just once. Perhaps I will make you think for a minute, perhaps not.

The profile seems off a little but the hair part on the "Kennedy" if it's really anything man-made would be the emblem/snake on a Pharaoh or related ancient culture king/chief's forehead. It would be a "royal" " trail" , location , more specifically a mine/vault /tomb location. It was supposed to be seen from an old trail and lead you in off it. The king thing is just an ownership , relative importance or stating of what is there type image. There are many rock face profiles on the web that are deemed natural just like it that I am certain thru my own experience (minus most of my college education) , many are not natural.

What specific detail are you looking for to make it not natural? Pupils in the eyes? beards, hats, extra images in and around the face profile? What would it take other than the excavated place they are looking at or in the vicinity of to make you decide they are not natural , but rather very old weathered markers you see from long distance to lead you in (many do not look specifically at anything, but rather you line up something across them, or go in the canyon they are looking at)? I guarantee you will find no tool marks on any of it. A throw off? Seems impossible to make something out of rock without tool marks... But these were meant to be seen from a distance, so no real need for intricate tooling.

BTW I have seen dozens upon dozens of these type face profiles and most all of them have other markers that stand out from the surroundings in the vicinity on 15 degree increment bearings near them. What's up with that? Coincidence? Mathematical Paradolia ? wtf would mathematical Paradolia be? I used to think the same way 10-12 years ago about them all being natural coincidences and imagery in rocks and such, and having a college degree and all that I could very easily use educational logic to shoot it all down.. I believed I knew better and all these idiots seeing stuff in rocks were nuts. But there were a couple left over monuments I found that are so detailed that I couldn't keep ignoring it (which I have never shown on a public forum), I then chose to find out things on my own and not fall into the trap of the general consensus anymore. When I got out a compass and tape I realized I was the one who had been the fool all along. But you can't even get someone to look at a compass at these sites, they are too stubborn in their own beliefs to even bother. It's believed as insanity to think there is any relationship of one so called "random" boulder or rock outcrop to another.

If you want to ignore stuff and write everything off as natural geologic anomalies, more power to you, because I will tell you it is a very long hard road to enlightenment, and you will take alot of crap along the way if you share your findings or thoughts. You won't convince most people even if you show them everything . Because they believe they have been taught everything there is to know already , and it just can't be, it must be something else or another reason behind it all.

 

[Quinoa]

Here, since I don't care to show anything detailed of my own, I will leave you with more "close to far fetched crap". This is from my own research, no one knows of it that I am aware of. This is in Egypt along the Nile ,north of the valley of Kings, near an ancient city of myth and legend.
In the myth Osiris if you care to look it up, his body was cut up into pieces. Most Google Earth photos don't show much unless the monument is very large. This one does, and it is huge , and it is right in the general area (like within a mile or so up a canyon) where his mythological head was supposed to have been buried nearby. Coincidentally the head stares exactly at 90 degrees due east to the rising sun.


It's the same on about 8-10 years of Google earth , I posted a couple of the years. Coincidence? Pretty F- ing bizarre and cool if you ask me. Circled the head on last pic if you have trouble seeing it, it looks to the left at rising sun at 90 degree bearing.
People think they know alot, well they really don't, not even the scholars/archys. You figure the ancient city his head buried near (it's been renamed), and go up the first canyon from it , and then mess with your Google earth of the image years, you will easily find it.

 

[Tom_in_CA]

..... many are not natural. .....

Quinoa, Another way of saying the above statement of yours, is "Many are man-made". Right ? Here's another link to the Kennedy lava rock thing:

JFK Profile Rock - Iao Valley | Only In Hawaii

So in your theories of man-made vs coincidence: Is this one man-made or random coincidence ?

And how about your post #25, of the face on the cliffs along the Nile River. Seeing as how you make note of the fact that it's staring at "exactly 90*", I'm assuming you think this face in the cliff thing is man made on purpose, right ?

 

[Quinoa]

What I think or say would defy modern day logical thinking.

I read the Kennedy thing before I posted my first post here, I looked up several pictures of it. It didn't just suddenly on one saturday in 1942 just start looking like a face profile, and the statement "naturally occuring" is being used as a fact when it is not known when it started to look like that. The location of it in the canyon and the place it is best seen from say to me it was made on purpose, it is very typical, seen from along a major travel route.

Show me the before and after picture of when it looked like nothing and then naturally started to look like a face profile. We assume they were naturally created over 1000's or millions of years of weathering and erosion because that is the most logical answer with the background information people have to go on. I happen to have other information to go on, so I have came to know most are man made and not natural. Same thing with "glacial erratic" boulders that are propped on 3 stones. They assume no one put them like that , so they come up with a geological naturally occurring explanation. If they are in america they are called glacier erratics, if the are in Europe they are called Celtic dolmans , funny how that works.

We are taught and told something based on logical thinking, it seems logical, and we accept it as truth.

There is a society that believes the world is still flat. The concept picture of heaven , purgatory and hell was even based on that. Much disinformation is spewed by various religions and governments throughout history to control the way we live and think. And some is just based on logical sounding answers that happen to be incorrect.

And yes I believe the Nile river Head which is over 200 feet tall is man made or perhaps a better term "artificial". I'm not interested in going there to prove it, but again I have seen many similar things in the field in the areas of what would be called "treasure sites" (large terraforms), so why would I bother traveling to Egypt (where they seem to be mainly interested in destroying history based on current religious beliefs)? It would be impossible to convince anyone of such stuff without taking them in the field for a few days or even a week though, it is just not the stuff we are taught and grow up learning. It goes to the contrary of logic we have been accustomed to, based on what knowledge and information is available to the general public. Speaking of Egypt and the religious beliefs destroying history , I added a video link from cnn on Iraq that shows how religious beliefs can deal with history. And we have done this type of stuff since the beginning of time. There are many videos there showing the destruction of artifacts and ancient structures being done because "God has ordered us to destroy..".

So you can call me slightly crazy because I defy what has been deemed "scientifically" logical by the masses, and I can only really call you a normal logical thinking person. I'm ok with it, it's nothing new to me. I don't expect to change your opinion, in fact I expect you to defend what you believe is logical based on your own life knowledge and experience you have acquired.


[h=2]http://www.cnn.com/videos/world/2015/02/26/id-wedeman-mosul-isis-destroys-artifacts.cnn/video/playlists/isis-destroys-antiquities/[/h]

 

[Mother Superior]

I'm a neophyte and have very limited knowledge on the subject matter, I do not wish to interfere or take sides in this discussion in any way.
However, I have read the the ***"Vault treasure hunting" thread generously put together by Sandy1. I understand him to be a reliable source of information relating to the type of treasure markers discussed here (rock alignements, naturally shaped rock giving indications, etc.). I think anyone doubting the existence of such markers would be interested in reading the first hand accounts of someone who specializes in this field. I do not wish to sound patronizing in any way, and if this information has already been posted by anyone on this thread, I sincerely appologize. Thank you for your understanding and generosity when it comes to new members.
Here is the link to Sandy1's thread:
http://www.treasurenet.com/forums/t...5-guide-vault-treasure-hunting-condensed.html

Peace
Mother Superior

 

[Tom_in_CA]

.... The location of it in the canyon and the place it is best seen from say to me it was made on purpose, it is very typical, seen from along a major travel route....

Ya know it's funny Quinoa: I used that "kenndy face" example as an illustration of how some TH'rs are reading way-too-much into the notion of "treasure signs" and "markers" etc... In other words, I picked something that ..... although very un-canny, yet NO ONE would say for a minute that it was man-made. Because I hoped that by providing such an illustration, that person's could see that perhaps other such things in the landscape are also simply coincidental and random as well.

It never occurred to me that anyone could take that Kennedy example, and actually suggest that it WAS "man made". I had grabbed that as a random example of something that I didn't think ANYONE would .... for even a minute, suggest was purposed, planned, designed.

So I am befuddled as to how to proceed. Because any example someone gives of "random coincidence", I suppose the same conclusion could be forthcoming from the treasure-sign crowd ? No matter HOW seemingly coincidental and random..... someone can still believe there was design and purpose.

I will tell you this though: If you were to go there to Hawaii, and suggest to ANYONE that it was "designed/purposed" (rather than just coincidental lava flow formation), I think you would get wide-eyed blank stares of disbelief. You would find yourself in the minority, as ..... no one else who's ever written about the spot has EVER thought for a minute, that it was anything other than coincidence.

Oh well, such is the power and lure of treasure. Treasure stories (maps, clues, signs, symbols, legends, etc....) are SO compelling to believe in. Skepticism is "put aside". Why ? Because the human mind wants SO HARD to believe .... " lest you be left out".

 

[Tom_in_CA]

.....
Here is the link to Sandy1's thread:
http://www.treasurenet.com/forums/t...5-guide-vault-treasure-hunting-condensed.html

....

I have looked over this link, and conclude the same thing: Someone "looking for assasins under rocks" . And seeing "treasure signs" in every funny rock that happens to be shaped like a triangle. There is utterly no reason to believe that mountains with un-canny lines (of past rain erosion) have anything whatsoever to do with "Spanish treasures". No more so than the "man in the moon" (un-canny face-shape on the moon) is anything but coincidental:

 

[Quinoa]

I agree with your point of view on what you are saying, but I will also state, I can't tell everything just by a picture, I can only make a judgement call based on my own experiences. Most people are too afraid to comment on this type of stuff because they know they will take flak for it. I stepped up to the plate and gave a couple reasons why I would consider it a marker. In the real world, I actually go to the markers on foot and survey the surrounding area for the other markers that it would lead to. I put a compass to all alignments, note anything that stands out or seems out of place, and can make a judgement in the field what to do next.

Also your moon image was photoshopped a little, I've seen that one before too. I personally don't like being fooled, so I do my research , and could teach a college course on ancient cultures, signs and symbols through history/symbolism, the occult, various religions and their origins, etc. I could probably also teach how to research fraudulent people/ including people associated with treasure , photoshopped pictures of aliens/ancient being/giants and so on.

So you seem like an intelligent person, I have a question for you. Since we are talking about ancient cultures and treasure I assume you have some knowledge of it. No picture, but what's the relevance of the numbers 240/60, 270/90, 300/120?

 

[Tom_in_CA]

..... but what's the relevance of the numbers 240/60, 270/90, 300/120?

I have no idea.

As for the "man in the moon" being photo-shopped, .... wow. Again I reached for what I THOUGHT would be the most obvious case of "random coincidence". That .... no one could/would dispute. And, like the Kennedy pix, you can say that this too isn't random or coincidental. Because .... in this case .... you're saying it was "photo-shopped". Right ? All I can say is .... wow.

 

[Quinoa]

Lol, that's a known photoshop.

Anyways the numbers I posted are solar bearings for solar equinox days. On about Dec 22 the sun rises at 120 degrees and sets at 240 degrees (the shortest day of the year), on About march 22 the sun rises in the east 90 degrees and sets in the west 270 degrees, on June 21 the sun rise at 60 degrees and sets at 300, the longest day of the year, on about september 22 the sun rises and sets due east/west again.
These are all huge sun worship days and have relevance to most ancient cultures as well as some of present day beliefs. The December one is often a funerary one and represents death and afterlife, the June one represents rebirth, because the sun stops (dies) for 3 days in the sky and is reborn, and starts moving again. In relation to treasure many sites will have these bearings coming into play for alignments as well as sun signs and shadows showing up.

 

[Tom_in_CA]

Quinoa, very interesting. There are other "man on the moon" type-shadows that .... I'm assuming can't be explained away. Although now I'm not too sure. If you can explain away Kennedy (claiming could man-made) and can explain away the moon shadow (via photo-shop), what's left ?

As for the #'s thing you cite, ok, I'll bite: What does that have to do with treasures ?

 

[Mark60]

Mark60, I've done posse hunts for several persons who hid, then couldn't find something later. And in those cases (and cases of caches that I know of being found), there was very little "rhyme or reason" to the landmarks they might have chosen. Ie.: the fixed object (tree, rock, chimney, fence post, etc....) was not something "un-canny". So in actual real life, the notion you are advancing doesn't seem to hold enough merit to make it ..... as if those "un-canny" things are more-likely to be "treasure hiding spots".

2 examples come to mind (they're just examples, and I know that no 2 caches are alike):

a) I was called out by a realtor, who was preparing to sell a house. The elderly man who owned the house, was well into his 90s in age. In a convelescent home. No longer able to carry on conversations (ie.; advanced dimentia). But a few years earlier, when he still had some of his wits about him, he'd told his adult daughters that he'd buried jars of silver coins on the property. They didn't put much stock into it, and ... at the time, assumed he'd get better and head on home. But his condition only got worse, and pretty soon, a few years later, when they'd ask him "Dad, tell us again what you were saying about buried money?", the man was just too far along in dimentia and old age.

The house was going up for sale, and the daughters told the realtor the story. They rented a metal detector, walked all around, but .... didn't know what the heck they were doing (never operated a detector before). So they searched around for an experienced hunter, and were referred to me. I agreed to go check the property. We had only a few clues to go on, and that was the recollection by the daughters that it was on a "certain side of the house", "near a wall", etc...

I was able to find it. Simply at the base of a wall, beneath a window. Nothing out of the ordinary or unusual or uncanny, etc....

b) Another time I got called to posse hunt for an individual who said he'd buried a plastic tub full of gold coins at a buddy of his' house back-yard. Apparently he was in the midst of a divorce 10 yrs. earlier, and had wanted to hide some coins, "till the heat was gone". He didn't want this nest egg around anywhere near him, so he asked a buddy if he could please bury this at the other guy's house. The 2 men went out in the guys large backyard (a few acres) and chose a spot near the fence to bury it. The purposefully picked a prominent bush, and made mental note , for future sakes, where it was.

But as the years progressed, the homeowner did various yard work. Bushes and trees grew up during 10 yrs., such that .... what might have, at one time, been a "prominent" bush, now there were all sorts of trees and bushes (the man was a green thumb gardener, so it was not unusual for him to plant, prune, etc...).

After 10 yrs, the guy can back to dig up his gold coins. But now.... it seemed that EVERY bush "looked the same". They dug countless holes at what they thought (based on their mental recollections of 10 yrs. earlier) was the spot. To no avail. So they hired me, and I went out and found it for them

Point in each of these cases, is case examples of human nature that .... no ... you don't necessarily seek out "un-canny" spots to hide something. Any fence post, base of a chimney, etc..., tree, etc... suffices.

I have several more posse stories with the same conclusion. And know of caches found in my area, that were simply the result of someone digging a hubcab signal (they thought was about to be large junk), but with no correlation to anything un-canny as far as rocks, squiggles, signs, maps, etc..... I was a part of a "tame" cache, which was simply buried in the floor of a barn. No markers or anything that we could deduce in retrospect . Aside from perhaps the person who buried it, might have simply done it "next to such & such post", etc.... Nothing mysterious or un-canny.

If I understand you right your saying there is no such thing as a treasure trail and any shapes or figures that TH's might see or come across means nothing, frankly I dont see the correlation between metal detecting in a barn or a backyard whether its a small plot or a couple of acres looking for something with no discernible marker that someone has buried but didn't take the time to record its location except to put it away in memory that will absolutely fail you as time goes by as opposed to following a discernible trail laid out with markers both subtle and very distinct over vast areas of open country, IMO thats comparing apples an oranges, some guy burying a mason jar in the back yard for a rainy day is a lot different then say a Spanish expedition setting aside caches for their return trip or future expeditions, that were set up an laid out by the kings rule which is in the historical record, or by any other group that may have their reasons to create these caches and insure their ability to retrieve them and to disguise them to average layman, so please excuse me, I'm not trying to offend anyone and not sure if my ramblings make any sense it's late and I need more coffee as I study over my pareidolia

 

[Mark60]

Oh My I just noticed I'm a full member now, man I must be living right WooHoo, cant stop me now I'm moving up

 

[Quinoa]

Tom, I'll try to not get to detailed, but read the whole last post for a basic numbers explanation, the true solstice azimuths can vary slightly by up to a couple degrees due to latitude/longitude but a generalized compass representation of them as a baseline would show them at the numbers I named. That is also why occasionally you will find degrees consistently off a small set amount on some ancient sites aligned to solar positions, although solstices can be considered as 30 degrees off high noon (north/south line) when in a valley or canyon and you can't see where the sun actually is setting on the true horizon. Other things that affect it are solar precession on the earth's horizon and continental drift over a couple 1000 years which can have a very small affect as well.

But it's not really that complex, just go out on the sites on those days and you will find many of the solar alignments pretty intact, especially the hoyos that the sun still shines thru and light up spots on the ground from the rising, setting or noon sun, or as the sun passes and disappears behind a cupped out location on a ridgeline indicating a sun/shadow thing going on during a certain day such as the summer or winter solstice. The people looting out the ancient type sites and reburying and re-marking them used more standardized calculations that could be mapped as they no doubt expected to come back for them. Most of it is done in 15 and 30 degree increments off high noon, which would be considered true south for that area, and it's pretty easy to find that with a sundial type setup or simply a stick in the ground casting a shadow.
View attachment 1421903
There are a few other holy type days that were Celtic ritual days that I have seen unique things happening on as well having to with the sun positions, but those are more rare.

 

[Tom_in_CA]

.... some guy burying a mason jar in the back yard for a rainy day is a lot different then say a Spanish expedition setting aside caches for their return trip or future expeditions, that were set up an laid out by the kings rule which is in the historical record, ...

Good conversation.

Re.: the above quote: I just gave you case-examples of human nature when it comes to caches. But you dismiss it saying that "big ticket" caches by certain races (the Spanish in this case) will, of necessity, act differently. I don't see any proof of this assertion/claim. I see no reason why Spanish people (or Asians, or blacks, or French, etc...) act differently when it comes to human nature of stashing goodies. IMHO: Human nature is human nature is human nature.

And the SIZE of the cache also seems to be irrelevant to the issue. Think of some big ticket caches that've been found (in past newsworthy events), and ask yourself: "Simply because they were really big, did they have some un-canny marker or symbols or cryptograms, etc... ?" And .... if you are honest with the question, will no doubt concur: That big ones too have had no rhyme or reason..

Size of cache and nationality of hider, do not change human nature.

 

[Tom_in_CA]

..... as they no doubt expected to come back for them.......

Quinoa, My answer would be the same as given to Mark60. People (yes , of all races) bury goodies (yes, even big ones) ALL THE TIME without necessarily doing it with some elaborate secret symbols, astrological alignments, etc.....

I gave point-blank examples, but you guys have dismissed them. And so too, no matter HOW many examples I give you will just dismiss those too as exceptions "to the rule".

There is no reason to suspect that odd-ball alignments of sun and star and moon equinoxes, un-canny alignments of rocks with compass points, etc... mean anything other than random. You can walk out to the desert floor in Utah or Arizona, and .... if you look long enough and enough gullies and terrain, can find 3 random rocks which can make a perfect triangle, once you draw lines through them. And then you can devise all sorts of cool astrological events that do indeed jive with dates, calendars, sun-rises, and so forth, that .... when doing the math, can come to ALL SORTS of numerical un-canny equations. It doesn't mean anything.

 

[Tom_in_CA]

Mark-60 & Quinoa :


Examples of how the "treasure symbol" theories can be over-thought:

The sun shines through your window at your house. Right ? And as the sun moves through the sky, the light beam that it shines, will cast about on various parts of the floor and wall of your house. Right ? And I'm certain that at a certain time of year, and a certain time of day, that it will shine *exactly* on a random spot in your house. Like .... a certain picture you have framed. Or a knothole on the floor. Or whatever. And I can probably study the calendar, and deduce that this was a famous Pharaoh's birthday. Or some Holy day of some religion, or whatever. And I can devise all sorts of theories that the builders of your house designed the house with that exact intent in mind, right?

But this doesn't take into account that there are INFINITE spots "where the sun casts its light" through that window. And no matter WHERE it casts, and no matter WHAT day, I could likewise find something uncanny about the exact date, spot, etc.....