Spanish Clock Map.........

[Old Dog]

CT,
You do well when you put all the signs together.
If it is graded you pass.
You sound a bit reticent when you were saying "well something just doesn't look right."
Let me insert something here... there is a whole set of signs missing that either haven't been found yet,
or just aren't being shown. Either is fine with me ... but the intermediate signs are critical to solving this one.

 

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[minetres]

In this part of New Mexico it is true that a turtle is a marker like I said. I have seen the treasures others found. also I have found that the Spanish would also use a large turtle head and cut the nose off to show the treasure was removed, and at the same sites we found the empty vaults perfectly lined up with the turtles. Here in this part of the country many of the sites were like this. I do want to mention the Indians and some other race used the turtles too and I have no Idea for what since there is no water there at all. All of the treasures I have seen at these sites and the empty vaults I found were within 100-150 feet of the turtle. I have no reason to make this up and I'm only giving this information to help others you can believe it or not. All of the sites I have been talking about the turtles had no legs shadow marks and animal as well as fish marked the sites very well and were simple to figure out over time. If anybody here needs some help with a site you can PM me and I'll give you any information I can you can check it out on your site your self the information may save you some time.

Minetres

 

[Old Dog]

Short reality check.

You will find that in most cases the finding and marking of a good cache site was very labor intensive.
The reason the Spanish didn't destroy the turtles or deface them was because over the course of the 400 odd years they were here they would use these places over and over.
The camps were marked and used the caches were marked and used.

Most of the time we will find a many times used storage place. These guys were very good to their animals, they unloaded every night, and reloaded every morning. This gave the mules a needed break.
Imagine a trip from Northern Utah to Mexico City without unloading and resting the animals. That just isn't going to happen.
That is why you will find a camp every 10 to 12 miles, and a cache spot with it ... empty... all marked and ready to use.

so yes, there will be good cache sites at every good camp.

A Spanish hunter (depending on location) can expect to find an empty hole 85 to 90% of the time. That is a given.
It is the 10 to 15% that are not empty that keep us going after the history.

Over the last 150 years of treasure hunting in America the "broken turtle" theory was started and cultivated by treasure hunters.

 

[trailseeker4]

These are the only other pictures I have in the area. The turtle is looking to the upper point of the large triangle. And in between is the triangle rock pictured below. This is just the other side of the turtle.

 

[tesoro dog]

trailseeker4!! When you see large stones like these set up out in front,, at the base of hills,, they are " what is below is above and what is above is below" stones! They have on them the same ravines, light or dark outcropping areas, and ridge lines found on the hillside,, They also show on them where the hidden mines and stashes are! I am still learning how to read them,, study them yourself, you might have the nack to "see"!! Take many pictures too,, even the ones at sundown hours show alot!! Luck Bro! td

 

[dsty]

look at this, thanks for the post

 

[Old Dog]

Hello, I am fairly new to T.N. and don't know much about how the spanish mined, but wouldn't it be hard to conceal the tailings from these old mines? How did they do that? Jimmygoat

Jimmy,
The reason there are so very few tailings piles around Spanish mines ...
Have a look at the landscape and the trails in the immediate area.you will find them packed with a fine gravel.
The Miners used to spread the tailings out to grade the trails as well as the area of the mine.
This prevented growth of new trees, grass and underbrush in the trail. they used to fill ravines and move soil around to disguise the mine area. They would also use it to fill the mine itself when leaving.

The tailings are there ... you just have to look for them.

 

[Smee]

I do want to mention the Indians and some other race used the turtles too and I have no Idea for what since there is no water there at all.

Hmmmm . . . . well, welcome to Turtle Island. That is what the old ones called this land. The turtle? Sacred animal to many. Some of those you are finding which have no connection to treasure were probably connected with ritual.

You can tell the difference between those and the treasure markers? Interesting . . . what gave them away?

 

[Old Dog]

Smee, AGREED,
A turtle as used by the Spanish is always a trail sign. It always points to the ongoing trail or the next marker or landmark.
I have several turtles that are not of Spanish origin but were modified by the Spanish. (they confused us for a long time)
We believe these huge turtles to be of ancient origin, perhaps Phoenician.

 

[dsty]

Thank you Twisted Fork, This is exactly what I was talking about on the triangles, just bringing this back into view. Thank you so much. T.F.

 

[VICTORIO]

" Phoenician "

Olddog Sir, I have seen some Turtels the size of a Volkswagon. I have also seen some turtles Carved on rocks. The carvings of Turtles are the sieze of a pack of cigaretts. Thanks for sharing all this great info. I always wondered why the Turtle at all these sites. I read where someone said the Turtle was sacred to some. Thanks.

 

[Old Dog]

Victorio old friend,
For you ... Here is a monster that would easily hide a Volkswagen.
The head is about 11 feet tall and it is 10 feet tall across the shell.
It was modified by the Spanish by squaring out the eye and adding a drill hole to the jaw.
It indicates a permanent water source 180 degrees.

 

[dsty]

This one helped me a lot

 

[DoveFeather]

Thom; Do you have a close up of the cliff in the top of this picture? I see many faces in this cliff, Thanks.

 

[Old Dog]

Do you have a close up of the cliff in the top of this picture? I see many faces in this cliff, Thanks.

PM sent

 

[dsty]

Just bringing this back because of the information it contains. Thanks dsty

 

[dsty]

This important enough to bring it forward

 

[dsty]

Just bringing the windrose back to the surface because it should be an IMPORTANT part of any treasure hunters / historian knowlege,I believe they used diferent types, perhaps one for Mines that show the cache sites as being outside the triangles and one type for cache sites that show the cache site as being in one of the concealed corner. I believe that all will show a set of initals that are joined together that it identifies it as a portion of land

 

[dog the treasure hunter]

good stuff guys, thanks for posting it.i have been doing some reading on windrose, as to treasure points,i have only found pictures of stars or compass points. i guess it could be stone set to point n,s,e,w,or one or combo og them? i dont have any ideal, at all what one would like in the field.does anyone have a photo of one? or drawing? i have a photo of a long stone pointing south with a triangle pointing up at it, then there are smaller signs on the ground that you can only see standing above,like on the long south stone. some of the small stones on the ground have small drill holes,and theres one odd stump there. well heres the dead south stone,not sure if its a windrose? ya? na? thanks for any more help on the windrose,good stuff,thanks all View attachment 666352 View attachment 666353

 

[PatrickD]

Hi Twisted Fork,

Thanks for sharing. I wouldn't put much stock into that map unless you copied it exactly from a stone. In which case you should have a photo of the actual carving. Otherwise, it is probably not as authentic as one would prefer.

This doesn't look like a pinwheel map. There is no degree marker on this drawing. Your line of entry seems to be the entry path from this location. Look at the map as if it is static with North on the right side of the picture.

Also, the Spanish maps from that period used aerial locators and not landmarks. Try triangulating the position with the pinwheel dot as Polaris. This looks like a starting point direction indicator.

Good luck with your searching. I hope you make a great recovery.

Patrick